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Circumcision: A Necessary Cut Or Bodily Harm?

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http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/circumcision-a-necessary-cut-or-bodily-harm-9328250.html

It is the world’s most commonly performed surgical procedure – but more than any other it now divides global medical opinion.

Male circumcision – the removal of the foreskin, normally performed soon after birth or at puberty – has become the subject of a bitter dispute between medical authorities on either side of the Atlantic.

At issue is a small sheath of double folded skin and muscle, rich in blood vessels and nerve endings, whose function remains unclear. Claims have been made that its removal leaves the head, or “glans”, of the ***** exposed, reducing sensation and sexual pleasure, but no consensus on this, or on much else, exists. The World Health Organisation says of the foreskin, there is “debate about its role”.

Supporters of circumcision say its removal brings significant medical advantages that outweigh any risks. Last month alone two studies appeared extolling its health benefits, with one specialist claiming that it provides protection (against urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases) on a par with childhood vaccination and that to fail to offer it to the parents of newborn boys should be regarded as unethical.

Yet last October, the Council of Europe passed a resolution condemning the practice as a “violation of the physical integrity of children” and calling for a public debate with the aim of banning the practice “before a child is old enough to be consulted”. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland joined forces to call for a ban, following the lead a year earlier from a German regional court in Cologne, which ruled that the practice amounted to bodily harm and banned it for infants and young boys below the age of consent.

Why would newborn boys need it to protect them from STDs??? Surely giving them the choice of the op later on in life is better and let them decide?

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I like to stick pickled onions and chillies down mine! :P

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It's a barbaric practice - maybe not quite as bad as FGM. But should be up to the child to decide, not their parents (unless there are specific medical reasons in individual cases).

Amazes me that we routinely mutilate children.

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I like to stick pickled onions and chillies down mine! :P

I actually stuck.mine in hot sauce once too - not kidding !! In hindsight was not my best idea.

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It's a barbaric practice - maybe not quite as bad as FGM. But should be up to the child to decide, not their parents (unless there are specific medical reasons in individual cases).

Amazes me that we routinely mutilate children.

Yes. And of course you can ban FGM as an outrage thats carried out by barbaric, savage, and backwards patriarchal societies, but try banning male genital mutilation and....

thats-racist.gif

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It's a barbaric practice - maybe not quite as bad as FGM. But should be up to the child to decide, not their parents (unless there are specific medical reasons in individual cases).

Amazes me that we routinely mutilate children.

Can you imagine the response if..

- It was unheard-of, but these doctors came up with the suggestion of routine mutilation of infant boys. Would vanish without trace, doctors would probably get investigated.

- It was practices by a single african tribe, and performed occasionally by members of this tribe in the UK.

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Can you imagine the response if..

- It was unheard-of, but these doctors came up with the suggestion of routine mutilation of infant boys. Would vanish without trace, doctors would probably get investigated.

- It was practices by a single african tribe, and performed occasionally by members of this tribe in the UK.

Quite.

It's like the people defending Subway using halal meat.

Let's all justify totally mental cruelty because it's cultural, innit.

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It's a barbaric practice - maybe not quite as bad as FGM. But should be up to the child to decide, not their parents (unless there are specific medical reasons in individual cases).

Amazes me that we routinely mutilate children.

I don't think I do! A bit of skin off yer nob, you won't miss it! But FGM , I don't like! It's basically dominant men taking away wonen's parts what God gave them! And they are not God, and they will find out!

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I actually stuck.mine in hot sauce once too - not kidding !! In hindsight was not my best idea.

I had had a wonk, after cutting Scotch Bonnet chillies, not such a good idea as you say! Now yer avatar is crap! !t's no you!!

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I had had a wonk, after cutting Scotch Bonnet chillies, not such a good idea as you say! Now yer avatar is crap! !t's no you!!

Not quite this but I did go for a slash immediately after cutting some up, but without first washing my hands. I promise you I won't do that again, even though I am still in possession of a foreskin for protection.

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I don't think I do! A bit of skin off yer nob, you won't miss it! But FGM , I don't like! It's basically dominant men taking away wonen's parts what God gave them! And they are not God, and they will find out!

Just chop it off!

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Had to be done to one of my fellow students at University because his foreskin would not retract.

The condition caused him quite a bit of pain as I recall.

So sometimes medically necessary for adults but not for children.

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Not quite this but I did go for a slash immediately after cutting some up, but without first washing my hands. I promise you I won't do that again, even though I am still in possession of a foreskin for protection.

I did something similar too - after rubbing Deep Heat on my shoulder. So, as Bill Clinton once said, 'I feel your pain.'

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I did something similar too - after rubbing Deep Heat on my shoulder. So, as Bill Clinton once said, 'I feel your pain.'

Ah, that was de rigeur among the boarders when I was at school. I'm glad I was a day boy.

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Let's be honest. You've stuck it in worse.

That's a good point !

I have done it by accident too after cooking - seems its quite common going by thus thread. :)

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Yes. And of course you can ban FGM as an outrage thats carried out by barbaric, savage, and backwards patriarchal societies, but try banning male genital mutilation and....

thats-racist.gif

Oh come on, while I find circumcision bad enough (should be called MGM), FGM is an order of magnitude worse. It's more like the equivalent of cutting the end of your knob off rather than just the foreskin. And your claim that FGM is opposed more vigourously because of fears of being considered racist makes no sense at all. FGM is practiced almost exclusively by black cultures wheras circumcision is widely practised by a variety of cultures.

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Quite.

It's like the people defending Subway using halal meat.

Let's all justify totally mental cruelty because it's cultural, innit.

I don't think it's a like for like comparison.

I 'defended' Subway's decision to use halal meat on the OT thread. As far as I can tell, that was a commercial decision to offer halal in 10-15% of its UK stores, along with a declaration that the animals would be stunned before slaughter. I was up for someone to explain on that thread why halal slaughter with stunning was crueler than other forms of despatch but if there were any takers I missed it. If it turns out the animals aren't stunned I'd be first in line baying for Subway's blood.

As for the non-medical circumcision thing, I consider it a form of assault.

Had to be done to one of my fellow students at University because his foreskin would not retract.

The condition caused him quite a bit of pain as I recall.

So sometimes medically necessary for adults but not for children.

The condition's known as phimosis and is not uncommon. I remember a mate's slightly deranged mum prattling on about the dangers of 'too much skin' and the importance of regular hot baths.

Even in severe cases, there is another way though...

wiki: The dorsal slit

A dorsal slit (often referred to in anthropology as superincision) is a single incision along the upper length of the foreskin from the tip to the corona, exposing the glans without removing any tissue.

An ancient practice,[1] it has been a traditional custom among a number of peoples, particularly Filipinos and Pacific Islanders, probably for thousands of years....

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Just chop it off

Yes, for the good of Rome! :blink:

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One point that this article fails to mention (probably because of the "that's racist" angle) is that the health benefits of circumcision only applies to someone who practises poor personal hygiene (either out of choice or necessity).

Mrs. (actually Dr.) Ayatollah is a gyneacologist, who, although she doesn't specialise in treating the other half's plumbing, probably knows more about it than than the general public. The last time there was a news story about this, she pointed out that the studies which have shown that circumcision reduces infections significantly were done almost exclusively in third world countries, and mainly in sub-Saharan Africa (where, incidentally, sodomy is in widespread use as a method of contraception and of preserving 'virginity', thereby heightening the risk of infection). The bottom line appears to be that circmcision prevents infectious agents from becoming trapped between the foreskin and the glans, and thereafter entering the body either through cuts/lesions in the skin itself, or up the hosepipe, so to speak. But having a shower and changing into clean underwear every day prevents that as well.

So in societies where the majority of men can and do wash their genital areas and change their underwear daily, the health benefits of circumcision are effectively zero. In societies where they can't and/or won't, those benefits can be significant. But of course it would cause a PC uproar to suggest that only grubby Africans should be circumcised and that civilised men in the west should get a pass and thus have better sex in adulthood, hence the reason pro-circumcision campaigners are calling for it to be done to everyone.

Did you get caught out by the stories that sticking your ***** down a vacuum cleaner hose would be a great way of being sucked off?

You mean like this one?

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Ah, that was de rigeur among the boarders when I was at school. I'm glad I was a day boy.

No wonder the political class is insane.

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