Converted Lurker Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Fool http://property.scotsman.com/news.cfm?id=2322972005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattLG Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 LOL. What a moron! MattLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Fool http://property.scotsman.com/news.cfm?id=2322972005 I wouldn't say it backfired since the seller hasn't actually lost anything by giving it a whirl. Maybe it will help him to get his thick head around the idea that the properties value is what someone is prepared to pay for it and not whatever figure he likes to make up in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorant Steve Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Is it really so easy to judge how much a property should be marketed at? Why don't we, on this site, post our estimate on this property. If it's so easy we should all be within a range of £20,000. I bet there are even some stupid idiots on here who wouldn't check the previous estimates to make sure they are in the correct ball park! My guess £675,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillill Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Is it really so easy to judge how much a property should be marketed at? Why don't we, on this site, post our estimate on this property. If it's so easy we should all be within a range of £20,000. I bet there are even some stupid idiots on here who wouldn't check the previous estimates to make sure they are in the correct ball park! My guess £675,000. The market - ie the people who made offers on the property - decides the "price". And what "ball park" would you suggest we play in? The one where this muppet has his property valued over what anyone was willing to pay? The top value of the property was the highest offer he received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Is it really so easy to judge how much a property should be marketed at? It's not easy for us although I live within less than a mile of this particular property and have some local knowledge. We can check out nethouseprice to see what other properties in the street sold for however an accurate judgement requires a more in depth knowledge of those comparable properties - something a good old Edinburgh solicitor will provide. It's a desirable property in a very desireable street but in a static market few people are to be found willing to pay over the odds even for a very special property.. a few of years ago in a fast rising market plenty of people didn't care if they paid over the odds to beat the other bidders to get something really nice in their chosen location... a few months HPI would make good their overpayment on the property which is no longer the case (in my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorant Steve Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 The market - ie the people who made offers on the property - decides the "price". And what "ball park" would you suggest we play in? The one where this muppet has his property valued over what anyone was willing to pay? The top value of the property was the highest offer he received. But he's had no offers. So what are people willing to pay on this property? A woolly statement like "the market" gets a potential seller absolutely nowhere. The seller has to decide what price might attract offers and then, if necessary, revise his price. Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" is deciding what the market might bear. It's not easy for us although I live within less than a mile of this particular property and have some local knowledge. We can check out nethouseprice to see what other properties in the street sold for however an accurate judgement requires a more in depth knowledge of those comparable properties - something a good old Edinburgh solicitor will provide. It's a desirable property in a very desireable street but in a static market few people are to be found willing to pay over the odds even for a very special property.. a few of years ago in a fast rising market plenty of people didn't care if they paid over the odds to beat the other bidders to get something really nice in their chosen location... a few months HPI would make good their overpayment on the property which is no longer the case (in my opinion) Exactly - it's not easy. A whole raft of unknowns to be thought through. This vendor has been to at least one market expert (his estate agent), and presumably more. Has weighed their advice and arrived at a possible sales price. I fail to see why he's a fool, moron or a muppet. So, given his original priice was £735,000 what would you market this property at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillill Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 (edited) But he's had no offers. So what are people willing to pay on this property? A woolly statement like "the market" gets a potential seller absolutely nowhere. The seller has to decide what price might attract offers and then, if necessary, revise his price. Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" is deciding what the market might bear. It says he's had no "acceptable" bids. I read that as being "I've had offers, but none were equal to or greater than my idea of what this property is 'worth'". And he's no idea of what a falling market is. The reverse auction "has not worked in the way we wanted it to". ie He's clinging on to a valuation that no longer reflects what the falling market will entertain. His valuation is therefore surely a fantasy? No? [Market it at the original buying price + historical HPI % + 10% if he's feeling lucky] Edited November 29, 2005 by stillill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 The market - ie the people who made offers on the property - decides the "price". And what "ball park" would you suggest we play in? The one where this muppet has his property valued over what anyone was willing to pay? The top value of the property was the highest offer he received. Exactly right. The true value of a property is constantly changing in that it is dependant on how many potential buyers looking for just that kind of property are about when it goes on the market (something no one knows until it is advertised for sale). In Edinburgh with the traditional 'offers over' system, potential buyers get their solicitors to 'note interest' in a property up for sale (usually no actual figure is put forward at this stage). When the sellers' solicitor reckons he has drummed up enough interest he sets a closing date. The potential buyers solicitors will be aware of how many notes of interest have been received and will, if requested advise his client what to bid based on his knowledge of the market, how many other bidders there are for the property, how much his client is in love with the property and how likely it is that something similar will turn up if he doesn't get it for him... the bids are sent in by the clients solicitors just before the deadline - the value of the property is at this stage discovered - as stillill says it is the top offer received, and the contract becomes binding as soon as the missives are agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 But he's had no offers. On this property which is very desireable in Edinburgh he almost certainly did get offers, they probably just didn't come up to his own inflated idea of what the property is worth. So what are people willing to pay on this property? You'd have to ask him what offers he got. A woolly statement like "the market" gets a potential seller absolutely nowhere. The seller has to decide what price might attract offers and then, if necessary, revise his price. If the seller is sensible and not a muppet he lets his (carefully chosen) solicitor decide what price might attract offers Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" is deciding what the market might bear. Exactly - it's not easy. A whole raft of unknowns to be thought through. Exactly -s o let someone who knows the market decide what the market might bear. This vendor has been to at least one market expert (his estate agent), and presumably more. Has weighed their advice and arrived at a possible sales price. Probably he didn't take their advice and insisted on setting his own hence he still doesn't have a sale I fail to see why he's a fool, moron or a muppet. As long as he isn't in any hurry to sell and believes the market is rising or static he isn't really, he's just trying his luck. If the market falls he will (with the benefit of hindsight) have been a bit of a muppet. So, given his original priice was £735,000 what would you market this property at? I'm not sure what it's worth but even full-on 4-story townhouses with huge front and back gardens in one of the most prestigious streets in Edinburgh (Ann Street) only fetch about a million. I'd take an experts advice on what to market it at and not make up my own though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boughtin95 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 "I think we now plan to re-market the property next year when the market is a bit more lively." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Ignorant Steve, Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" is deciding what the market might bear. Not really, because he didn't want to know the answer was as he wigged out on the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 So, given his original priice was £735,000 what would you market this property at? I checked nethouse price and a double upper in the street sold late 2002 for 499K. A double upper would have similar sqare footage as this flat but would be minus the walled garden - nice views of the firth of forth and Fife though. I keep an eye on the edinburgh new town market and prices of these nice Georgian flats have gone up a bit since 2002 but not more than about 15% per year. My guess is that this flat would attract offers between 675K and 725K depending on how many rich folk happened to be looking (who don't mind parking down the street a bit as the on-street residents permit parking available will be insufficient for the number of car owning residents and garages around there are worth their weight in gold (well nearly) and come on the market very rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 (edited) The market - ie the people who made offers on the property - decides the "price". And what "ball park" would you suggest we play in? The one where this muppet has his property valued over what anyone was willing to pay? The top value of the property was the highest offer he received. I'm not the first here to say so, but EXACTLY RIGHT! Ignorant Steve, Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" is deciding what the market might bear. Not really, because he didn't want to know the answer was as he wigged out on the deal. EXACTLY also. Why are people even trying to estimate the value of this property? 1 . The guy had th eperfect system for deciding waht the house was worth. All he had to do was wait for the first bid. 2 . He refused to accept reality. Simple as that. AND for Ignorant Steve, here is why the guy is a moron: 1 . His house won't sell for 735K, so waht does he do: start the auction at 800K. How many offers was he gonna get? I'd say, given his previous experience of trying to sell it for 735K, f@ck all. In fact, it is pretty clear he won't receive any offers until the price goes below the bid that had previously attracted zero offers, namely, 735K. 2 . The pointless part of the auction starts, namely, the bidding down to 735K. Predictably no offers are received (this is the price denial phase). 3 . At 735K the auction starts looking interesting (this is the price discovery phase by the way Steve): now we are about to see how far below 735K the price needs to drop before interest is received. BUT HANG ON A COTTON PICKIN MINUTE! He only goes and stops the auction right there. 4 . Having received no interest even below 735K, what does he then do: puts the thing back on the market for 745K!!!!! To me that is moron defined. So to say : Seems to me as if "muppetmoronloser" (the guy in question) is deciding what the market might bear. ... is clearly wrong both in fact and in principle. In fact he closed the auction BEFORE dicovering what the market would bear. In principle "muppetmoronloser" decides on an asking price. What the market will bear is something quite different. Edited November 30, 2005 by Sledgehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Scotsman 22nd September.. "I want to get the property sold quickly. It was initially thought I'd get a lot more than £800,000, but I just want it sold. This mechanism is widely used in the financial markets that I work in, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in the property market. "The value of the property is what someone is willing to pay - this is an open, transparent mechanism of finding what that is. I genuinely think this a better, more equitable means of finding the price of the property than fixed price." A lot more than 800k!! Rubbish. I don't believe rettie's would have told him it could sell for that figure. Look at the second part of what the seller himself said! The value of the property is what someone is willing to pay.He understands the concept perfectly but he still won't accept that the property is not worth 745k (it's current fixed price now that he has withdrawn his 'open, transparent mechanism' of finding out the value.) If he really wanted it sold quickly, believe me that flat is very desirable and lots of buyers would be queueing to take it off his hands at a fair price. Maybe he isn't a muppetmoron for trying his luck but I sincerely hope he doesn't find some muppet with more money than sense to buy it at his fixed price. Of course this is only my guess but I suspect he has turned down perfectly reasonable offers around the 700k - 725k mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The strategy has been adopted after the property failed to sell, despite being on the market at offers over £735,000 for nearly five weeks and receiving an unusually high level of interest. The buyers were there, the interest was there.. all he needed to do was find out which buyer was prepared to pay most. The reverse auction was fine as a method to do this, he's just in denial that his property is not worth as much as he'd hoped. While his interested buyers waited for the auction to tick down to a reasonable figure they also went off and looked at all the other beautiful Georgian flats for sale whose vendors lived closer to home than cloud cuckoo land. Loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 My recollection from the old HPC threads when this dutch auction started is that he wasn't even bound to accept the price someone offered under the terms of the auction. SO he could still have pulled out - clearly he is in denial. Imagine how he will feel if things really turn over the inter and he can't get near £700k! I have no sympathy at all for people like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 My recollection from the old HPC threads when this dutch auction started is that he wasn't even bound to accept the price someone offered under the terms of the auction. SO he could still have pulled out - clearly he is in denial. Maybe what he would have hoped is that the interested parties watching the auction would wait till someone cracked and bid, then jump in themselves and make an offer slightly above.. gazumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblpm Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Just to change the subject somewhat .................. You all seem to be experts on Edinburgh but never post on the Edinburgh threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DBT has disappeared, married i think!! Any enthusiasm for a new Edinburgh thread??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 You all seem to be experts on Edinburgh No. We're merely pointing out that the guy set up a method of price discovery and then went wobbly when the price drifted way lower than he liked. Any enthusiasm for Edinburgh thread??!! Yeah, why not, here's my contrib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro2021 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Just to change the subject somewhat .................. You all seem to be experts on Edinburgh but never post on the Edinburgh threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DBT has disappeared, married i think!! Any enthusiasm for a new Edinburgh thread??!! I live in Edinburgh near the dutch auction flat. I'm no expert but like to know what's going on. Actually the issue of an extremely unpopular (with the neighbours anyway) unofficial 'entertainment' venue operating in one of the houses in the street might be having an adverse effect on the sale http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=1662062005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgomez Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 (edited) Great read guys. keep up the good work. Edited December 1, 2005 by macgomez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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