Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Masked Tulip

I Was In A Library Today - Www.gov.uk/

Recommended Posts

I popped into the main Swansea library on the way home today and a chap came and sat at the PC next to me.

He was late 40s/early 50s and, from what I later made out, a fork lift driver. He is on the dole and has to log on to a govt job portal each week and apply for jobs otherwise his dole gets stopped.

He couldn't log on in the job centre as they don't have enough computers for the demand.

They had given him two credit card size pieces of paper - one with his portal login and one with his password. On both cards there was the govt portal address of http://www.gov.uk/

Guess what - that portal didn't take him to where he needed to go and it kept rejecting his login details. On that portal page there was no direct link to the place he needed to go.

I really felt sorry for this guy as he clearly was not IT savvy but his dole depended on him basically being internet savvy - having been given the wrong website address to start with.

I helped him out and, within 5 or so minutes, got him to the right place.

I am posting this because I just wonder how many people are in a similar position - either through poor IT skills, or poor education... or being given the wrong info... or all three... that they will not be able to do what they are supposed to do and so can lose their dole.

I thought it was pretty cr*p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that there will be a lot of over 50's who are not computer literate. Many of those who are not required to use computers at work and perhaps "set in their ways" will not have moved with the times. I know of a few folk like this.

It was nice of you to help the guy. You would have thought that as job centre workers are "helping" people to find work they would have made it a priority to assist the guy so he had the skills to apply!

I feel sorry for the unemployed who want to work. They have enough problems without the one you described.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A friend has just come round my house and was just telling me that her brother-in-law has had one leg amputated amongst other breathing problems. - he is now home from hospital after 3 months but is house-bound.

He needs to get his bank to accept his brother and his sister-in-law to act for him in financial matters because he is so unwell - problem is, my friend - the SIS - went into the bank today to explain this and they said that they could arrange all of this... as long as he came into the bank to fill in the right paperwork!

He has to go into the bank to sign forms to prove that he is too ill to come into the bank to sign forms.

Nation of jobsworths, paper shufflers and idiots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's just poor service nowadays for the plebs.

Up until 1993 I worked at a local bank branch. In the circumstances you describe a member of staff would have went to the customers house to get the papers signed.

It wouldn't happen in that local branch now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, a year or so back I met a guy in his 50s on the train who had no idea how computers worked. He was clearly well read and intelligent enough (he was reading a book in latin) but computers just seemed as alien to him as visiting Jupiter would to the rest of us. Completely outside of his frame of reference. His wife did all of the computer stuff apparently.

I felt rather sad for him as lacking computer literacy is nearly as bad as being unable to read or write nowadays.

Anecdotally, I have found both iPads and iPhones to be great gateways into computer literacy for older people. I've met quite a few people who never "got" computers until they got an iPad or iPhone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its a bit more than that ...JSA now expect daily log ins and updates if you look else where , plus and active e mail and current CVs of which at least one uploaded to their portal ......minimum of 25 recorded actions within the 2 week slot .

Failure to do so and not account for it means sanctions .

Failure not to prove applications and confirmation of applications via e mail means sanctions

JSAsanctiondecisions.png

What's coming is that if you have been out of work for some length of time you will have to sign every 5 days ....then daily if there has been multiple sanctions

Also the job centres in many cases have got rid of their terminals................ don't want people hanging around . Stresses out the job centre bouncers .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to work at a little local library and was often surprised at how many people considerably younger than me were clueless with computers/the internet. More than once I had someone wanting to apply for a fairly ordinary job and had no idea where to start.

I spent ages helping one bloke who had to apply online to Sainsbury's and didn't even know you needed an email account in order to send and receive emails. It could easily take well over half an hour to help someone like this just set up an email account, never mind filling in an application form. All well and good if we weren't too busy - I was only too happy to help if I could - but at busy times - which was pretty often - there was no way I could sit for ages with someone who hadn't a clue about using a mouse, drop down menus, etc. I used to wonder what on earth Job Centres were for if not to give people precisely this sort of help and training.

Mind you some people did take to it miles more easily than others. Once there was a bloke who must have been 80 and had never touched a computer in his life - he came in with a web address of something he was interested in. I showed him a few basics - clicking on links, how to go back, how to use the mouse, etc - he took to it in no time and went out very happy, saying how wonderful it was and he was going to buy a computer before he was a day older. Made my day, that did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Mrs Bear. Job Centre employees should be assisting those with no computer skills. It's a priority in my opinion. You sound like a kind person that helps when you can.

As an aside. I worked in social care for several years (2005-2009) with homeless young people under 18 and "looked after" children under 16. My experience with them was that they were computer literate with regard to games but 9 out of 10 were unable to read or write. Despite my protesting nothing was ever done to address this matter of being able to play a game but be unable to fill in an online application form.

I had to leave that area of "helping" the disadvantaged to get on in life. In fact I suspect I was blacklisted as an undesirable "who didn't understand" social care. I got a bad reference that got a job offer withdrawn and I reakised eventually that I was exluded!

In my somewhat rural area of the UK Dumfries and Galloway, libraries are under threat of closure.

What are the disadvantaged going to then with little hope of help from social care, job centres and libraries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm involved in selling tech to older people....I have no doubt that an ipad would be the best way to start (or possibly a chromebook)...something very simple.. To me, Win 8 is shyte, and I dread to think what people who have no computer experience make of it...

There is something like this https://www.simplicitycomputers.co.uk/ basically software that runs runs shortcuts / executables, and with its big buttons, you can't really go wrong...

As for the Job Cente...don't get me started...their universal jobmatch website is dreadful, and they assume that everyone on the dole is computer literate and has unlimited access to a computer...they really are a bunch of halfwits.

Round my way, there used to be loads of courses for "computing for the terrified", but surprise surprise, due to cuts, these courses have now been discontinued. Dole staff don't have the time or inclination in helping people who don't have these skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All part of HMG plan to use the internet as an engine of oppression.

What is sad is that 99% of government ministers and senior civil servants do not have a f*cking clue how a computer works. They think being able to post b*llocks on Twitter means they are IT literate,

God knows what would happen if some of the governments data centres burned to the ground. I know some of them do not even have a DR plan in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All part of HMG plan to use the internet as an engine of oppression.

What is sad is that 99% of government ministers and senior civil servants do not have a f*cking clue how a computer works. They think being able to post b*llocks on Twitter means they are IT literate,

God knows what would happen if some of the governments data centres burned to the ground. I know some of them do not even have a DR plan in place.

Picture-51-500x100.png

http://www.bitterwallet.com/what-does-the-ip-in-ip-address-stand-for-ask-stephen-timms/27968

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I rest my case.

The sad thing is HMG could actually design and build IT systems that made peoples lives easier but they simply can not be ars*d. Instead we get the oppressive crap delivered by the DWP and HMRC masquerading as some great digital leap forward. The reality is that behind those Gov.UK websites are some of the worlds flakiest big IT applications and the scariest part is that the supposedly shiny new software is far, far worse than the old big iron systems written for the government by the IT grey beards now approaching retirement. They at least had half a clue as to what they were doing. Once they are gone it is likely to be IT armageddon. It is a sad fact that HMG struggle to roll out a Windows desktop refresh from XP to Windows 7. As for upgrading something like Exchange forget it. I have been told one government department is currently stuck with half its staff using Exchange 2003 and the rest on Exchange 2010 because they have f*cked the process so badly. Apparently the main reason for the debacle is that they outsourced this part of their infrastructure 7 years ago to a company who then laid off the entire Exchange team after the previous upgrade of the software. As a consequence no one knows where all the bodies are buried. Add in the fact that most government CIOs are on 3 year contracts and you can see why most government IT is in a state of Maoist "permanent revolution" or utter chaos as the rest of us might say,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay the bloke in TMT's illustration was having problems but given how jobs are advertised these days I do not think it is unreasonable for it to be a requirement to have an email address and be subscribed to the DWP job website.

I have used the same (actually got my current job through it), you get a Friday email which lists out the main jobs meeting your criteria (set up for me by the job centre when they signed me up) and you click on the job and it takes you to it via a hyperlink. You would then need to sign in so if that doesn't work then you are stuck but you go back to the job centre to get them to sort you out.

I accept that some old people actively do not want to get onto computers (I know one couple in their 70s, they have never used computers / smart phones and do not want to so never will) and that's your choice unless you want to claim JSA on the basis that you are looking for work.

Job centres give training for all of this, if you can't get it to work you go back in and they will sort you out. Once the initial teething problems are sorted you are not having to do much - sign onto your email address, open it, click on the link, sign into the website. There is no requirement to be IT savvy, undertsanding searches, spreadsheets or file handling; just four steps.

I have heard anecdotally (radio phone in) of "sanctioning" - no benefits for four weeks - being used fairly arbitrarily so hence the demand upon foodbanks. I can't however see this happening for somebody who is genuinely finding that the IT system doesn't work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay the bloke in TMT's illustration was having problems but given how jobs are advertised these days I do not think it is unreasonable for it to be a requirement to have an email address and be subscribed to the DWP job website.

I have used the same (actually got my current job through it), you get a Friday email which lists out the main jobs meeting your criteria (set up for me by the job centre when they signed me up) and you click on the job and it takes you to it via a hyperlink. You would then need to sign in so if that doesn't work then you are stuck but you go back to the job centre to get them to sort you out.

I accept that some old people actively do not want to get onto computers (I know one couple in their 70s, they have never used computers / smart phones and do not want to so never will) and that's your choice unless you want to claim JSA on the basis that you are looking for work.

Job centres give training for all of this, if you can't get it to work you go back in and they will sort you out. Once the initial teething problems are sorted you are not having to do much - sign onto your email address, open it, click on the link, sign into the website. There is no requirement to be IT savvy, undertsanding searches, spreadsheets or file handling; just four steps.

I have heard anecdotally (radio phone in) of "sanctioning" - no benefits for four weeks - being used fairly arbitrarily so hence the demand upon foodbanks. I can't however see this happening for somebody who is genuinely finding that the IT system doesn't work.

I do think it might be a mite different for someone like you, who is obviously educated and clued up, and will understand how to make the system work for them.

Some of the people I tried to help were not very educated, were not clued up and TBH in some cases were none too bright. As I saw it they were being failed by being left to flail around largely on their own and in the dark, so to speak. I have no doubt that they could have done the kind of frankly lowly jobs they were applying for perfectly well, but they would have needed a lot of hand-holding to get there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think it might be a mite different for someone like you, who is obviously educated and clued up, and will understand how to make the system work for them.

Some of the people I tried to help were not very educated, were not clued up and TBH in some cases were none too bright. As I saw it they were being failed by being left to flail around largely on their own and in the dark, so to speak. I have no doubt that they could have done the kind of frankly lowly jobs they were applying for perfectly well, but they would have needed a lot of hand-holding to get there.

I wasn't saying "how hard can it be" Mrs Bear; I have had twenty years of trying to get my (intelligent) dad to understand the difference between a file and a shortcut to the same file so I appreciate that what is obvious to somebody who "knows" computers is not obvious to a novice, especially an older one.

There are not, however, may steps to the process and they will take you through these and you can write them down. They help you with them as they do with putting together a CV; I know somebody who does this down the job centre and she's a lovely person so would be always helpful and would do the hand-holding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I popped into the main Swansea library on the way home today and a chap came and sat at the PC next to me.

He was late 40s/early 50s and, from what I later made out, a fork lift driver. He is on the dole and has to log on to a govt job portal each week and apply for jobs otherwise his dole gets stopped.

He couldn't log on in the job centre as they don't have enough computers for the demand.

They had given him two credit card size pieces of paper - one with his portal login and one with his password. On both cards there was the govt portal address of http://www.gov.uk/

Guess what - that portal didn't take him to where he needed to go and it kept rejecting his login details. On that portal page there was no direct link to the place he needed to go.

I really felt sorry for this guy as he clearly was not IT savvy but his dole depended on him basically being internet savvy - having been given the wrong website address to start with.

I helped him out and, within 5 or so minutes, got him to the right place.

I am posting this because I just wonder how many people are in a similar position - either through poor IT skills, or poor education... or being given the wrong info... or all three... that they will not be able to do what they are supposed to do and so can lose their dole.

I thought it was pretty cr*p.

in addition, if you log in to the portal, but use a link from the portal to a job site, any jobs you apply for from the linked site are not recorded...so you have to copy the application, go back to the web site and make sure your app is in your personal notes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard anecdotally (radio phone in) of "sanctioning" - no benefits for four weeks - being used fairly arbitrarily so hence the demand upon foodbanks. I can't however see this happening for somebody who is genuinely finding that the IT system doesn't work.

You do realise that this is the same job centre that has actually sanctioned people as they have attended a job interview rather than going to the signing on meeting (and they were pre-warned about this too)..

http://stupidsanctions.tumblr.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   217 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.