chronyx Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You need to learn to read. Getting a job is precisely the opposite of what I advocate. You're an idiot. I understood what you were saying, my point (Which I will now elucidate further as you seem incapable of comprehending it yourself) is: Why should we all have to become 'entrepreneurs' unless the fact is that for 20 years we were sold a complete lie about the job for life - basically keep your head down and be a good wage-slave? Perhaps if we'd been taught the necessary skills to be 'entrepreneurs' it would not be an issue but people who are dependant on jobs are easy to control. We were taught/brainwashed to fit in, and comply. Surely the total opposite of an 'entrepreneur'? Hope that makes things clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I take your general point that needs must sharpens the mind...but this is a little too close to desperation to be celebrated. Taxpayers can no longer afford anything else. "Theres no money left". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We were taught/brainwashed to fit in, and comply. Surely the total opposite of an 'entrepreneur'? I never saw such a conspiracy, business courses are freely available, that route is there for anyone who wants to pursue it. If you don't want to be an employee, don't be one. All employees chose to be so. What I take issue with is those that tell people on benefits to stay right there, don't bother, and actually get angry that people are moving into some form of paid work rather than sat idle with their hand out. It beggars belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I never saw such a conspiracy, business courses are freely available, that route is there for anyone who wants to pursue it. If you don't want to be an employee, don't be one. All employees chose to be so. What I take issue with is those that tell people on benefits to stay right there, don't bother, and actually get angry that people are moving into some form of paid work rather than sat idle with their hand out. It beggars belief. I wouldn't go as far as conspiracy, but when I left school in 2001 they were at the stage of throwing Ritalin around like sweets and making sure conformity was the order of business. I think most entrepreneurs have at least an unconventional/thrill-seeking side that they have managed to focus and use to their advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opt_out Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 What I take issue with is those that tell people on benefits to stay right there, don't bother, and actually get angry that people are moving into some form of paid work rather than sat idle with their hand out. It beggars belief. I don't think that's what wpeople are saying. I am just pointing out that many of these entrepeneurs are sitting around doing less than the unemployed. I don't have to actually do anything for my tax credits, if asked I spent 35hours thinking about future designs this week, same as last week and the week before. Universal credit plans to change this I think. Instead of a massive bureaucracy hassling the unemployed to go to interviews the plan is for a massive bureaucracy of business advisors assessing self employment business plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliegog Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't think that's what wpeople are saying. I am just pointing out that many of these entrepeneurs are sitting around doing less than the unemployed. I don't have to actually do anything for my tax credits, if asked I spent 35hours thinking about future designs this week, same as last week and the week before. Universal credit plans to change this I think. Instead of a massive bureaucracy hassling the unemployed to go to interviews the plan is for a massive bureaucracy of business advisors assessing self employment business plans. ebay selling or cupcake design/making ? - you are still not actually doing anything for 35 hours a week (and no you are not an entrepreneur) it is way past time this loophole was closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am just pointing out that many of these entrepeneurs are sitting around doing less than the unemployed. I don't have to actually do anything for my tax credits, if asked I spent 35hours thinking about future designs this week, same as last week and the week before. Some people can't be helped I guess. Maybe you should actually do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) ebay selling or cupcake design/making ? - you are still not actually doing anything for 35 hours a week (and no you are not an entrepreneur) it is way past time this loophole was closed. So we move these people back to being counted as unemployed then? I don't think IDS would like your suggestion, he's put so much effort into faking the unemployment stats. It would be a shame to undo all his hard work. Edited April 25, 2014 by alexw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okaycuckoo Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The fact IDS is still in the cabinet is an alarming sign for the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Cutting the apron strings is step 1, some might feel like they are clinging to debris as you put it but in short order they will gain confidence and be diving for pearls like a pro. Those that advocate a life of suckling at their mothers teet rather than attempting to fly solo are doing no-one any favours, except perhaps themselves when they pretend their own cowardice is everyone else's fault. Its happening, it working, and the world doesn't give a damn what the socialists 'think'. You can rib the 'del boys' all you like, but bear in mind the dreams of same is why any of you have a cosy job to mock from. I would agree that any change that genuinely allowed people to attempt any kind of move away from dependence on benefits is in theory a good thing- but to pretend a bloke posing as a window cleaner because his benefits have been cut off is indicative of a new wave entrepreneurial spirit sweeping the nation is the worst kind of propaganda and just obfuscates the issue. If tax credits are in effect a form of Citizens income then why not just come out and say it? Why not just accept that the entire edifice of means tested benefits is unworkable and destructive and create a system in which people could indeed start small, earn a few quid a week to start with and maybe eventually end up paying into the system rather than taking out of it. I have known of some genuinely talented people who became trapped on benefits because the moment they tried to exploit those talents in even the smallest way the system said NO- you must not do that- if you do that we will either cut off your benefits or throw you in jail. Odd how the system seems to infinitely flexible when it comes to preserving the rich- but utterly intractable when it comes to changes that might benefit anyone else. Edited April 25, 2014 by wonderpup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Just been reading some stuff over on Johnny Void about the new conditionality rules and the intent behind (the debarcle of) Universal Credit - 35 hours of job searching, pointless sitting around computers at the the likes of A4E, constantly tweaking CVs, etc. The drive to bring in part-time workers to make them up their hours, the assault on the voluntary sector. Everything we know about the economy is that there is an illusion of prosperity and of increasing (sustainable) employment.against a backdrop of increased supply of labour, flexible working conditions (zero hours and not enough hours to exist without help), automation... We are months away from an election and the rhetoric will be upped, the memes propagated all for political reasons driven by sociopaths who have no idea of the reality of surviving and getting by. Such dissonance: help to buy and booming housing, but dual incomes needed to get on the ladder; foodbanks, the rise of Aldi and Lidl, growth in zero hour contracts and part-time work, self-employment; big pay-offs at the top; City bonuses from bankrupt banks, an unquestioning media yet outraged comments... I don't see this ending well. Emperor has no clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Goldfish Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) I've just been checking the Tax Credits figures for the past few years. There doesn't seem to have been much of an increase in the Tax Credits bill. It seems to have been steady at just over £29 billion for the past three or four years. If people were being induced onto Tax Credits wouldn't the amounts have increased? The first figure is 2010-2011. Was there a change in Osborne's June 2010 budget which made a small cut to one element of Tax Credits? 28,511 29,233 29,077 29,066 28,538 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/304573/outturn-and-forecast-budget-2014.xls EDIT: figures above are nominal - these are real terms: 30,684 30,765 30,251 29,706 28,538 Edited April 25, 2014 by oldsport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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