bearwithasorehead Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well as i needed body guards in a couple of these nations for my safety it tells me who is really prejudice. How about you go to a border town in Kazakhstan to work on a refinery and come back with peace and love for the natives. When i go to nations such as Japan, New Zealand and Germany and see aspects of their society that i deem superior to my own does that make me racist to my own culture. Try getting off the backpacker trail and you just may see a little of what the world is actually like. Kazakh people are some of the nicest in the world in my experience. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Im clearly a bigot for wanting an end to unlimited immigration, i take being called bigoted as a compliment when it comes from your ilk. People like you who throw around the racist and bigot insults are as much a problem with this country as the corrupt Bullingdon club you mock. PS As someone who travels the world for work i can guarantee that i am racist in that i think that the English race is superior to folk from certain nations, go to Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Qatar and Saudi and even Bulgaria/Romania and you will see why. I hardly need to throw 'racist' and 'bigot' insults at you when you manage to make it self evident. As for my "ilk", you appear to have assumed I am a limp wristed lefty, based on the fact I see UKIP for what it is. I am deeply opposed to 'multiculturalism' in all of its forms. I believe in free speech, equality, secular government, and democracy - I think we should take pride in our country and take it forward under these principles that made it great, not throw our culture in the bin and encourage 3rd generation immigrants to have English as a second language. No significant immigration up to now would mean generations X&Y being absolutely bled dry to pay for their parents' retirement & failing health over the next few years. This 'looming population issue' was debated a lot in the 90's - it is odd how few people link the two. Immigration has been hugely mis-managed & has benefited the wealthy whilst having seriously detrimental impacts on the working class. I don't think that is right. It doesn't mean closed doors all along would have been right, and that doesn't mean closing the door a bit now (as the lying Tories promised) wouldn't be a bloody good idea. However, although many UKIP members have come to the conclusion we should have less immigration, their REASONS for feeling that way are not socio-economic, they are simply outright racist. Their interest in reduced immigration is bigoted in my view, because it has nothing to do with improving the lot of anyone else - they are invariably lining up to bash everything that could help improve the lot of my generation such as house building and infrastructure development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Their interest in reduced immigration is bigoted in my view, because it has nothing to do with improving the lot of anyone else - they are invariably lining up to bash everything that could help improve the lot of my generation such as house building and infrastructure development. We have have to some extent had our standard of living subsidised by low paid precarious workers. This is but a drop in the ocean to the billions of low paid workers in third world countries that have allowed Western countries to live far beyond their means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 More on the malign impact of the housing bubble, BTL and the decline in homeownership in the UK. It is clearly no hurting Mail readers kids etc. As more middle class Brits feel the negative blow back of our dysfunctional housing market the quicker this is going to move up the political agenda particularly as an election approaches. The Mail is even naming and shaming MPs and their relatives who have large BTL holdings. That nice little earner so many MPs have latched onto may turn out to be electoral poison in the long run. http://www.dailymail...level-1987.html "I think the governments have shot themselves in their feet by not doing anything about it. When old people need to go into rest homes, the cost of their care is paid for by selling their homes. I would say about 65 % is able to do this. But this generation has virtually no chance of getting on the property ladder and in about 50 years there will be a huge cost of looking after many elderly people who have no assets to pay for it. Not to mention the aging population and declining birthrate!" So who is going to be buying all the houses to let those in the Ponzi now escape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I hardly need to throw 'racist' and 'bigot' insults at you when you manage to make it self evident. As for my "ilk", you appear to have assumed I am a limp wristed lefty, based on the fact I see UKIP for what it is. I am deeply opposed to 'multiculturalism' in all of its forms. I believe in free speech, equality, secular government, and democracy - I think we should take pride in our country and take it forward under these principles that made it great, not throw our culture in the bin and encourage 3rd generation immigrants to have English as a second language. No significant immigration up to now would mean generations X&Y being absolutely bled dry to pay for their parents' retirement & failing health over the next few years. This 'looming population issue' was debated a lot in the 90's - it is odd how few people link the two. Immigration has been hugely mis-managed & has benefited the wealthy whilst having seriously detrimental impacts on the working class. I don't think that is right. It doesn't mean closed doors all along would have been right, and that doesn't mean closing the door a bit now (as the lying Tories promised) wouldn't be a bloody good idea. However, although many UKIP members have come to the conclusion we should have less immigration, their REASONS for feeling that way are not socio-economic, they are simply outright racist. Their interest in reduced immigration is bigoted in my view, because it has nothing to do with improving the lot of anyone else - they are invariably lining up to bash everything that could help improve the lot of my generation such as house building and infrastructure development. Im off out so will be quick. As i don't respect the culture of certain races of i am now a blue eyed devil, does this mean i have to go to all these backwards nations and think the Neanderthal medieval ways of the natives are wonderful? When is see Qataris treating the Indians like slaves should i have respect for them? And from what i've seen of Qataris it is all of them that are vile. They don't have one redeeming feature. You state youre for free speech except when someone says something you don't like at which point the insults come out. As for being racist my daughter is mixed race so is not of the Aryan race so presumably in your simplistic black and white view of the world i am racist towards my own child. If you think we need foreigners to come here and build our houses you clearly do back the LIBLABCON pro EU immigration stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 On the subject of a shift in public opinion the comments are interesting. Not individually, all predictable of course, but when you order those comments by best rated and worst rated you see the opposite of what you would have seen a year or more ago. The ignorant boomeresque tripe is being down voted and the comments that wouldn't look out of place on this site get up voted. Over time it was simply going to happen as those being screwed over outnumber those benefitting. It wasn't so long ago that our views were laughed at, now the boomers are laughed at. It is however rather shameful that it took this long, there are many innocent victims. Exactly. Those who have not got themselves out of this Ponzi yet, and are near retirement age, better do so quickly, they better hope some really thick young couple come along with a HTB loan soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Im off out so will be quick. As i don't respect the culture of certain races of i am now a blue eyed devil, does this mean i have to go to all these backwards nations and think the Neanderthal medieval ways of the natives are wonderful? When is see Qataris treating the Indians like slaves should i have respect for them? And from what i've seen of Qataris it is all of them that are vile. They don't have one redeeming feature. You state youre for free speech except when someone says something you don't like at which point the insults come out. As for being racist my daughter is mixed race so is not of the Aryan race so presumably in your simplistic black and white view of the world i am racist towards my own child. If you think we need foreigners to come here and build our houses you clearly do back the LIBLABCON pro EU immigration stance. No I do not particularly like or respect the culture of many other nations - but that doesn't mean I harbour prejudice about the individual people. Iran is in a right mess at the moment, but I used to know a really decent Iranian family who ran a restaurant, and ended up in an altercation with disgraceful white British people who thought spitting at them and shouting 'Britain or bin Laden?' was ok. You have demonstrated that you do not see any difference by making sweeping generalisations about whole nationalities. My point is that other people from all nations can fit in here, we have actually let ourselves down as a country by propagating all this twaddle about all cultures being equally valid and worthy of our respect. A salutary lesson in this was presented on question time a while back where some idiot guardianista was carping on about 'cultural sensitivity' and trying to prevent girls at risk being examined & monitored re. Genital mutilation, whilst 2 other women who were actually originally from one of the countries concerned had to explain to her why she was an idiot and these girls should be protected. It's about the attitudes and motivations that underpin somebody's political views for me - I thought Tony Benn was a bit of a looney in some respects, but respected him immensely for his integrity. I can't stand these fake media manipulating idiots we have now - UKIP included! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 No I do not particularly like or respect the culture of many other nations - but that doesn't mean I harbour prejudice about the individual people. Iran is in a right mess at the moment, but I used to know a really decent Iranian family who ran a restaurant, and ended up in an altercation with disgraceful white British people who thought spitting at them and shouting 'Britain or bin Laden?' was ok. You have demonstrated that you do not see any difference by making sweeping generalisations about whole nationalities. My point is that other people from all nations can fit in here, we have actually let ourselves down as a country by propagating all this twaddle about all cultures being equally valid and worthy of our respect. A salutary lesson in this was presented on question time a while back where some idiot guardianista was carping on about 'cultural sensitivity' and trying to prevent girls at risk being examined & monitored re. Genital mutilation, whilst 2 other women who were actually originally from one of the countries concerned had to explain to her why she was an idiot and these girls should be protected. It's about the attitudes and motivations that underpin somebody's political views for me - I thought Tony Benn was a bit of a looney in some respects, but respected him immensely for his integrity. I can't stand these fake media manipulating idiots we have now - UKIP included! Well you have decided for me in a few brief exchanges on a webforum that i do not see any difference between individuals from such nations and what is the general culture that many of the people adhere to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Kazakh people are some of the nicest in the world in my experience. Just sayin' The females are friendly if enough coin is there, but the males are a breed apart in my view. When people cant leave the compound unless in huge numbers its saying something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzardo Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Their future does not equal ability to get a mortgage if it does then sadly you imposed a very restricted little Englander (or little Brit ) view on them - Nope. Fortunately you know nothing of my situation except what your narrow prejudices tell you. So completely wrong there. This is a fantastic country even now if you are hard working and ambitious you can get on. Indeed. What I've also found, what my two eldest children have already found, and what one of them proved beyond all doubt this afternoon. You'll hear of him in the future, but I'm not breaking anonymity here and now if only to protect him and his siblings. The question you have to ask yourself how have you helped them in a non monetary sense? More than I can be arsed explaining to you here. My conscience is clear. Have you encouraged them to study hard ? Yup - academically, musically, sportingly and socially - and they are all doing fine. But thanks for your concern which they don't need. Work from an early age ? Again, yes. One of them is ranked #1 in the UK in a very competitive discipline. Has worked like a trojan in that field (supported completely by his family, to the detriment of a lot of other things,) since the age of 7 Have you developed a network of friends and associates that could get them work experience or the first step in a decent job? Do you know what - you're starting to sound like a right preachy, condescending c**t now. Err - yes. Do you have kids, and if so have you done the same? Although frankly I can't see anyone wanting to marry a supercilious tw$t like you, and continuing the existence of your DNA No I thought not you have just endowed them with the words 'never' and 'no future' and believe me if you are writing it on here you are saying it in your household - daily. QED. You know f**k all except the narrow prejudices in your own head. I've read quite a few of your posts over the years and thought "w@nker," and now I feel pretty secure in that assessment. Adios amigo - i have a family to bring up, and trust me I don't need the help of a pompous cyber-SuperNanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 "w@nker," Don't sign up for the Oxford debating Union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 This is a fantastic country even now if you are hard working and ambitious you can get on. Indeed. What I've also found, what my two eldest children have already found, and what one of them proved beyond all doubt this afternoon. You'll hear of him in the future, but I'm not breaking anonymity here and now if only to protect him and his siblings. It's ok. We all just need to trade up at super-high house prices, via nice jumbo mortgages on lucked-out super-low trackers. And play the contacts from our private-school days. As Danny Dorling said in the FT in February, from memory as I can no longer access the article which I only read again last night, the really interesting thing about the current inequality (re housing) is it's being felt hard even by the highest income earners of younger generation (25-35 years age+). Although I do agree there are opportunities to earn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I sort of prefer I will look after my own way of living. Of course you want to stay in a house you 'own' even if it is in negative equity. Since you are prepared to do that but you don't mind negative equity why not pay down the mortgage, sell and split 4 ways so they all have deposits and you rent? Your children have the world at their feet, I doubt if mine will end up staying here but then my Dad is an Eastern European when the odds are stacked against us we think about moving on. <snip> I think you've hit on something quite interesting here. Whatever disagreements we have on this site are mostly still focussed around the same set of cultural values, but you are coming at it from a very different perspective. I'm not sure how true/false the dichotomy is - we are (geographically) where we are, and if your values are based around a different cultural experience, then you are arguably a fish out of water. Still, I appreciate the perspective. Edited April 12, 2014 by tomandlu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 This is a fantastic country even now if you are hard working and ambitious you can get on. So if a plumber earning 30K a year is ambitious will that mean he can afford that 200K ex council house? What about a building site labourer doing 50 hours a week at 8GBP an hour is he hard working enough for you? Some people believe there own bullshyt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I hardly need to throw 'racist' and 'bigot' insults at you when you manage to make it self evident. As for my "ilk", you appear to have assumed I am a limp wristed lefty, based on the fact I see UKIP for what it is. I am deeply opposed to 'multiculturalism' in all of its forms. I believe in free speech, equality, secular government, and democracy - I think we should take pride in our country and take it forward under these principles that made it great, not throw our culture in the bin and encourage 3rd generation immigrants to have English as a second language. No significant immigration up to now would mean generations X&Y being absolutely bled dry to pay for their parents' retirement & failing health over the next few years. This 'looming population issue' was debated a lot in the 90's - it is odd how few people link the two. Immigration has been hugely mis-managed & has benefited the wealthy whilst having seriously detrimental impacts on the working class. I don't think that is right. It doesn't mean closed doors all along would have been right, and that doesn't mean closing the door a bit now (as the lying Tories promised) wouldn't be a bloody good idea. However, although many UKIP members have come to the conclusion we should have less immigration, their REASONS for feeling that way are not socio-economic, they are simply outright racist. Their interest in reduced immigration is bigoted in my view, because it has nothing to do with improving the lot of anyone else - they are invariably lining up to bash everything that could help improve the lot of my generation such as house building and infrastructure development. Spot on. Any advantages younger generations would get from a UKIP gov, would be almost completely incidental as to why those polices were introduced. But most likely on balance younger generations would be severely disadvantaged by a UKIP gov, not that that would be any different than the previous/current liblabcon gov's. Edited April 12, 2014 by alexw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Have you developed a network of friends and associates that could get them work experience or the first step in a decent job? Yes-crony capitalism is the way to go- forget all that free market crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Their future does not equal ability to get a mortgage if it does then sadly you imposed a very restricted little Englander (or little Brit ) view on them - Nope. Fortunately you know nothing of my situation except what your narrow prejudices tell you. So completely wrong there. This is a fantastic country even now if you are hard working and ambitious you can get on. Indeed. What I've also found, what my two eldest children have already found, and what one of them proved beyond all doubt this afternoon. You'll hear of him in the future, but I'm not breaking anonymity here and now if only to protect him and his siblings. The question you have to ask yourself how have you helped them in a non monetary sense? More than I can be arsed explaining to you here. My conscience is clear. Have you encouraged them to study hard ? Yup - academically, musically, sportingly and socially - and they are all doing fine. But thanks for your concern which they don't need. Work from an early age ? Again, yes. One of them is ranked #1 in the UK in a very competitive discipline. Has worked like a trojan in that field (supported completely by his family, to the detriment of a lot of other things,) since the age of 7 Have you developed a network of friends and associates that could get them work experience or the first step in a decent job? Do you know what - you're starting to sound like a right preachy, condescending c**t now. Err - yes. Do you have kids, and if so have you done the same? Although frankly I can't see anyone wanting to marry a supercilious tw$t like you, and continuing the existence of your DNA No I thought not you have just endowed them with the words 'never' and 'no future' and believe me if you are writing it on here you are saying it in your household - daily. QED. You know f**k all except the narrow prejudices in your own head. I've read quite a few of your posts over the years and thought "w@nker," and now I feel pretty secure in that assessment. Adios amigo - i have a family to bring up, and trust me I don't need the help of a pompous cyber-SuperNanny It's the usual simplistic crap you hear from those who have made it under the current system, and will be financially threatened by change. "Everyone just needs to be in the top 5% of earners in the UK, then they too could afford the lifestyle of a single earner median wage household of 30 years ago" Edited April 12, 2014 by alexw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well you have decided for me in a few brief exchanges on a webforum that i do not see any difference between individuals from such nations and what is the general culture that many of the people adhere to. I didnt need to infer this... I quoted you earlier... You said English people were superior to people from other nations... Quote is still in my previous post, although it appears you may have edited the original post!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 So if a plumber earning 30K a year is ambitious will that mean he can afford that 200K ex council house? What about a building site labourer doing 50 hours a week at 8GBP an hour is he hard working enough for you? Some people believe there own bullshyt! It's the building site labourers fault you know, he didn't build a network of contacts for £70k+ a year jobs down at the local working mens club/pub. That's all every single person needs to do to live like a median earner of 30 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I didnt need to infer this... I quoted you earlier... You said English people were superior to people from other nations... Quote is still in my previous post, although it appears you may have edited the original post!? You havent quoted me, what i said was the English race is superior to that of certain other nations, and i mentioned places such as Qatar and Nigeria. When i mentioned race i was clearly inferring to our culture/way of life as opposed to believing the English were born superior. I also went on to add i believe certain aspects of German, Japanese culture are superior to ours and asked if this meant i was racist towards my own race, i wasn't offered the privilege of a response to this. I have not edited your post, why would i need to alter your leftist liberal claptrap. You live in a world where youre desperate to shout out racist purely because someone votes UKIP as theyre sick and tired of having millions of East European droids on their doorstep and are also sick and tired of lying corrupt scum like Dave and Gidiot ruining everything that was once good about this nation. Finally I dont vote UKIP and i probably will not be voting as im not on the electoral register, but i believe anyone who votes LIBLABCON is either on the public sector payroll which is fair enough, or is a politically, socially and economically illiterate moron who has less sense then a turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sunday Telegraph 13th April: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Sunday Telegraph 13th April: I don`t know which is sadder, the fact that the PTB have now decided that it is to their advantage to cast HPI as the Bogey Man, and think that the sheeple will be influenced by the media spouting this line, or the fact that the sheeple are still influenced by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You havent quoted me. I most certainly did. My second post on the thread (Yawn) I also went on to add i believe certain aspects of German, Japanese culture are superior to ours and asked if this meant i was racist towards my own race, i wasn't offered the privilege of a response to this. Ok, no it doesn't make you racist in my view, unless the bits you think are great occured 1935-45 I have not edited your post, why would i need to alter your leftist liberal claptrap. Edited your OWN post, not mine. You aren't a moderator are you? As for my 'leftist' views - perhaps you could provide an example, as I think most of what I have said about my opposition to multiculturalism would be considered distinctly right of centre in the current climate You live in a world where youre desperate to shout out racist purely because someone votes UKIP as theyre sick and tired of having millions of East European droids on their doorstep Really? I actually called them Nimby bigots & you decided yourself this meant racism. My reference to the bigoted nature of UKIP could also be referring to the 'floods caused by gay marriage' saga - they do have plenty of bigotry to go round. You were the first person to refer to racism in this debate, then you proceeded to demonstrate that you are racist. Your reference to 'millions of eastern European droids' further underlines this. I know some eastern / central European people who are economic migrants. I would much rather swap them for some idle scummy indigenous white British people than send them home. If I was them, I think I'd probably do what they have done too. They are decent people who work hard and aspire to a better future, not 'droids' as you would have it. I'm sure we also have some scummy ones here too - that's the problem when you are disingenuous about immigration as the last 3 governments have been. Rather than have a target of getting 500,000 working people with skills into the country, they set a maximum target they pretended to be serious about, and then threw the doors open and told us only a few would come. The fact we have allowed so many people into the UK has allowed further north/south economic disparity to develop, and has had a hugely disproportionate cost/benefit distribution both between generations, and socio-economic groups. This needs to be rebalanced, and I think we need to cap further mass migrantion to do it. However, a number of UKIP supporters & members have demonstrated that their opposition to immigration is ideological, not political. They do not propose to counter any of these disparities, nor do they have any sensible proposals to manage the flatlining or shrinking economy that would follow an effective population capping exercise in a developed economy. UKIP deal in sound bites and opposition - they have no serious policies other than merely bailing out of the EU, closing the door and wave a flag. They continue to create a masquerade of economic arguments, but these are to support a pre-determined ideological stance - they haven't reached the conclusion we should stop immigration for logical reasons, it is part their raison d'être. That is why I consider them to be bigots, not because I disagree with their conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 They have in effect drawn a line as to who can and who can't improve their lot in life.....fall below and you are easy bait for those who fall above it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) UKIP deal in sound bites and opposition - they have no serious policies Perhaps, but even so they are still a better vote than any other party. Which just goes to show how bad the other parties are. Hopefully UKIP will pick up a huge amount of votes. Edited April 13, 2014 by Errol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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