Last Two Of Three Deep Mines Face Closure

[@contradevian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26849671

UK Coal is likely to close two of the last three deep mines in Britain as it battles to stave off insolvency.

The UK's largest coal producer is consulting on plans to shut Kellingley in Yorkshire, and Thoresby in Nottinghamshire, affecting a total of 1,300 workers.

The company is negotiating to raise £10m in investment "within weeks" to save itself.

If that fails, it has said it will turn to the government for help.

Still London house prices are booming, and thats all that matters these days.

[interestrateripoff]

Luckily we a dependent on foreign energy.

I can't see the problem.

[awaytogo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26849671

Still London house prices are booming, and thats all that matters these days.

The government are not bothered why should they, Even thou we get 40% of our coal from Russia.

They would rather subsidise unskilled foreign workers and foreign benefit claimants than look at our energy security.

Edited April 3, 2014 by awaytogo

[awaytogo]

Luckily we a dependent on foreign energy.

I can't see the problem.

Until they cut it off.

[fluffy666]

The government are not bothered why should they, Even thou we get 40% of our coal from Russia.

They would rather subsidise unskilled foreign workers and foreign benefit claimants than look at our energy security.

Dealing with energy security required some basic understanding of the science/engineering behind it, and even worse involves making decisions that are certain to annoy some portion of the electorate or another. You can't expect mere ministers of state to be able to handle that..

[interestrateripoff]

Until they cut it off.

Who's going to cut it off? We live in a stable world now with everyone cooperating nicely. We aren't trying to put sanctions in place against any big gas/oil exporter...

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Any mining knowledgeable people on here who can comment on the relative cost of deep coal mining vs. fracking?

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

Why are people so worries abut food security - (concerting over the greenbelt) and then nobody could give a $hite about energy security?

Could it just be that people don't want houses built, thus devaluing their pwoperty? Who would have thought it?

[Frank Hovis]

UK Coal, which provides 8% of the total coal consumed in the UK, said a strong pound meant it had lost out to cheaper imported coal, especially from the US, where the boom in shale gas has forced American coal miners to find new markets in Europe.

Well, shale gas isn't going to go away so if UK Coal is only producing 8% of the total coal then why, apart from some romantic attachment to sending men down t' pit, should we be choosing to subsidise coal mining?

Bring back the waterwheel and subsidise that instead.

[Smyth]

The government are not bothered why should they, Even thou we get 40% of our coal from Russia.

They would rather subsidise unskilled foreign workers and foreign benefit claimants than look at our energy security.

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

One of the key advantages of globalisation and international trade is that it allows countries to import the goods that are cheaper to produce abroad than at home, which benefits both parties. You wouldnt expect cheap household goods to be manufactured in Western Europe rather than in China, and this seems broadly similar. Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

Edited April 3, 2014 by Smyth

[Danny Deflation]

Yeah, let's close the mines.

Let's import cheap coal from overseas while we sit on craploads of the stuff.

Like selling buckets of Blackpool sand to folk living in the Sahara Desert.

Only in Britain, eh?

[swissy_fit]

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

One of the key advantages of globalisation and international trade is that it allows countries to import the goods that are cheaper to produce abroad than at home, which benefits both parties. You wouldnt expect cheap household goods to be manufactured in Western Europe rather than in China, and this seems broadly similar. Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

Once you close a coal mine it's closed for good unless mothballed which has a cost.

So if things change, say the foreign coal doubles in price in GBP terms, something I'd say is possible when one day the rest of the world wakes up to how bankrupt the UK is, then you can't easily go back to digging up the UK coal.

[@contradevian]

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

One of the key advantages of globalisation and international trade is that it allows countries to import the goods that are cheaper to produce abroad than at home, which benefits both parties. You wouldnt expect cheap household goods to be manufactured in Western Europe rather than in China, and this seems broadly similar. Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

You really are the most dreadful troll

Gas, Oil and Coal were subsidised to the tune of £3.63BN in 2010 according to the OECD.

I've lost count of the amount of money thrown at the bottomless pit, that is the UK banking system and housing

[Riedquat]

Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

Even putting aside security issues, is it more efficient to bring the stuff in by the boatload from abroad? Or is it just due to completely distorted social, economic, and political reasons that make it appear to be more efficient? If you're easily opencasting it from elsewhere then yes, it might be. If the depth and geology are similar though then it's less efficient and the system has gone screwy if it seems like a better choice.

[R K]

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

One of the key advantages of globalisation and international trade is that it allows countries to import the goods that are cheaper to produce abroad than at home, which benefits both parties. You wouldnt expect cheap household goods to be manufactured in Western Europe rather than in China, and this seems broadly similar. Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

Quite agree.

I'd start with relocating Canary Wharf and the Citeh to Bangalore though. That would save trillions.

[Smyth]

You really are the most dreadful troll

Gas, Oil and Coal were subsidised to the tune of £3.63BN in 2010 according to the OECD.

I've lost count of the amount of money thrown at the bottomless pit, that is the UK banking system and housing

So because money is wasted elsewhere, its ok to waste money subsidising coal? Thats a pretty stupid argument.

Also £3.63bn is an absolutely enormous amount.

[R K]

So because money is wasted elsewhere, its ok to waste money subsidising coal? Thats a pretty stupid argument.

Also £3.63bn is an absolutely enormous amount.

It's the ONLY argument for not letting the bankrupt banking system go bust.

There's no other rational explanation unless you'd care to offer one.

[Guest spp]

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

What is the downside?

Don't just think coal...think energy.

Security issues? price hikes? future sustainability? productive value of the nation?

Domestic energy production cut in half over the last 10 years and falling! You can't see a problem with this??

Somewhere over the rainbow...

[awaytogo]

Could you explain why exactly its a problem to buy coal from abroad, if that is cheaper than the cost of subsidising the extraction of coal in the UK?

One of the key advantages of globalisation and international trade is that it allows countries to import the goods that are cheaper to produce abroad than at home, which benefits both parties. You wouldnt expect cheap household goods to be manufactured in Western Europe rather than in China, and this seems broadly similar. Why subsidise an inefficient industry when we can just buy from abroad at a lower cost? What is the downside?

When this government first started closing our mines they imported from china, they cut us off, now 40% comes from Russia. No worries there then.

Russian coal is subsided by there own government< Why

Edited April 4, 2014 by awaytogo

[EUBanana]

The clue is in the name. "Deep mined", ie difficult to get. In some parts of the world coal is close to the surface, and they can open cast mine it at a fraction of the cost. It's not surprising that it's not a particularly economically viable enterprise.

[awaytogo]

The clue is in the name. "Deep mined", ie difficult to get. In some parts of the world coal is close to the surface, and they can open cast mine it at a fraction of the cost. It's not surprising that it's not a particularly economically viable enterprise.

So when Russia decides to take off their subsidy or do what the Chinese did and decided they need all their coal will it be cheaper then. ,

Edited April 4, 2014 by awaytogo

[EUBanana]

So when Russia decides to take off their subsidy or do what the Chinese did and decided they need all their coal will it be cheaper then. ,

We buy it from Australia? might cost more. But the world is bigger than Russia and China.

[awaytogo]

We buy it from Australia? might cost more. But the world is bigger than Russia and China.

Could be cheaper today, will it be cheaper when they have got us by the Bxxs.

[EUBanana]

Could be cheaper today, will it be cheaper when they have got us by the Bxxs.

The point is, it's a world market. We buy stuff from Russia (and China) because it's cheap to do so. When it is no longer cheap to do so, we'll buy it, or some equivalent good, from somewhere else, possibly at a premium, but maybe not even that in the long term.

Edited April 4, 2014 by EUBanana

[awaytogo]

The point is, it's a world market. We buy stuff from Russia (and China) because it's cheap to do so. When it is no longer cheap to do so, we'll buy it, or some equivalent good, from somewhere else, possibly at a premium, but maybe not even that in the long term.

Do you honestly believe looking at the history of energy resources it is as simple as that.