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Darkman

Is It Me, Or Is London A Complete Dump?

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I took a trip into London today, and drove through large sections I've never even encountered before,ending in Camden. It's been almost two years out of the UK, so I'm looking at things with a fresh perspective I think & comparing it to other countries.

Really I'm struck how far downhill this city has gone :o

Tiny congested roads. An atmosphere of pollution and dirt. Blackened buildings never cleaned. Horribly overpriced public transport. Cameras at every turn.

And people wandering around looking like they just escaped from Broadmoor or are the result of inbreeding :D

I know not all areas are like that. But I'm getting the impression these areas are growing and worsening. Just because an area is poor doesn't mean it has to go to the dogs. Mentioning demographics seems passe because it's so obvious. But holy crap, I was driving for so long and so much of London appears majority immigrant. I may as well have been driving through Bangladesh. And yet official figures don't back that up right?

The icing on the cake is seeing Camden Market converted to a huge tourist fast food bar. The food vendors have doubled in number and the stalls are selling the same generic tat as each other mostly. I've just deleted comments on demographic changes affecting the character of Camden Market so you fill the gaps on that one yourself. But once upon a time you'd go to Camden to find rare music and retro clothes at reasonable prices, and you'd buy them from someone who appreciated the same scene and knew their subject. Not any more. Is it just progress? Well maybe but the character of Covent Garden hasn't changed like that.

To conclude, I believe the scales have finally tipped against London being a great city. It's been changing for a long time of course, but one day I think you just get that light bulb moment and realise "this isn't fun anymore".

But I don't know. Do you just love London regardless? Is it still the best city in the world? :blink:

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After about three days, I've had enough...I would only work in London if there was a huge incentive, such as a job I couldn't do anywhere else, or I was getting a ridiculous amount of dosh..I don't think I could move to London to do a generic job for £23k.

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Yes. Crowded, selfish, unpleasant, dirty, heart-hardening place. I worked there for ten years and it took a long time to shake off the bad attitudes that it had ingrained.

In other news bears do their business in the woods.

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Have lived in london since the mid 70s, bay a few years in Sweden and USA. IMHO london is a great place and I love it here. It's far, far better and safer than 40,30,20 or 10 years ago too IMHO. I'm not sure where you went but it must have been from peckham to catford to Walworth to elephant and castle to the east end and brick lane and then round and round camden!

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There's the bit right in the middle where the money is, which is arguably a World City. And the embankment. And the tower of London. A few really nice pieces.

Then there's the 10 miles or so of crap which surrounds it. It starts to become habitable by about Zone 5.

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London has its charms, but they are largely superficial ones to me. I place a high value on peace and quiet and being able to wander around the countryside in solitude though. Despite its many attractions, those are things that London simply cannot offer.

I did eight years there, and the first five were, mostly, really fun. I was glad to get out by the end though. I still regularly visit for work, and I'd agree it's slowly improving if anything although losing some character in the process on occasion. But that could be just nostalgia talking.

Double, or even triple, my current income couldn't persuade me to move back. Life is too short.

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Bumpkin: London is a dump

City wnaker: London is a world city that shows we're the best

Bumpkin: its a dump and life is horrible for most people.

City ******: you're just a loser who can't hack it.

Strange person: I love london because there's always something to do. Yak fondling, tube announcement recital, Monkey poo finger paint exhibition. I LOVE IT!

bumpkin: dump

******: loser

Here endeth the thread. You can all go home now.

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Have lived in london since the mid 70s, bay a few years in Sweden and USA. IMHO london is a great place and I love it here. It's far, far better and safer than 40,30,20 or 10 years ago too IMHO. I'm not sure where you went but it must have been from peckham to catford to Walworth to elephant and castle to the east end and brick lane and then round and round camden!

Is London safer than it was 20 years ago? I lived here in the very early 90s, now living here again. It seemed like reading about a murder was much rarer then, or am I just getting old? London is certainly more fun living here now as someone with a high income rather than as a starving student, but I really don't think that the city has improved over the past 25 years. When I was 18 or 19, I wasn't able to afford to do much, but it was less crowded, had more character and it was a friendlier place. If I had to choose between between 18 and living in the London of 25 years ago, or the London of now, I'd definitely choose the former.

What also strikes me now is how segregated London is. I live in a nice bit of Wandsworth, across the street from a school. I'm pretty sure that every single child in the school is white. Drive 15 minutes (i.e. 2 miles away) though, and there won't be a white face to be seen. Everyone goes on and on about how London is so wonderfully diverse, but there's so little integration that it's absurd. Each group just goes about in their own little bubble, ignoring everyone around them.

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Awesome place, always loved living here and seriously missed it for the few years I worked and lived away.

By all means say Camden is a dump, or Peckham or any other small part you want to pick on, but you cannot avoid the fact there are some equally wonderful parts. It is a huge and diverse city.

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Is London safer than it was 20 years ago? I lived here in the very early 90s, now living here again. It seemed like reading about a murder was much rarer then, or am I just getting old? London is certainly more fun living here now as someone with a high income rather than as a starving student, but I really don't think that the city has improved over the past 25 years. When I was 18 or 19, I wasn't able to afford to do much, but it was less crowded, had more character and it was a friendlier place. If I had to choose between between 18 and living in the London of 25 years ago, or the London of now, I'd definitely choose the former.

What also strikes me now is how segregated London is. I live in a nice bit of Wandsworth, across the street from a school. I'm pretty sure that every single child in the school is white. Drive 15 minutes (i.e. 2 miles away) though, and there won't be a white face to be seen. Everyone goes on and on about how London is so wonderfully diverse, but there's so little integration that it's absurd. Each group just goes about in their own little bubble, ignoring everyone around them.

When you have multiple channels trying to fill 24 hours of rolling news any small item gets done to death. We had a recent story about a couple of people trying to hack somebodies head off... no not the recent Woolwich incident but the Brixton riots in the 80's.

Most of the killing is gang on gang, I'd agree it's not a lot different but I don't think it's any worse that it ever was. The murder rate is actually at an all time low, if you think there is a bigger level of gang violent and associated murder then normal murders must be very low.

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London has some pretty ugly bits, the suburbs are unattractive by the standards of most UK towns and cities.

However, Paris, Beijing and Rio do s**t a whole lot better than London....take a look at their slumy bits.

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All cities are a grim, dity, overcrowded mess (and you're out of one and into another in most of England before you know it, which is so f****** depressing). For a day I can distract myself enough there but any longer and I'm desperate to leave as soon as possible.

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London, like any big cosmopolitan city, seems like it might be a good place to live if you're very, very rich. In my limited experience, the people don't seem all that friendly (but that is limited experience), and it seems like an uber-stressful rat race.

I prefer the more laid back life I can get here in Belfast. On a normal wage I can afford my own place in the city centre and my job, as well as all the bars and shops ect...are no more than a 10 minute walk away.

Beautiful countryside fairly nearby too.

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London, like any big cosmopolitan city, seems like it might be a good place to live if you're very, very rich.

You can afford the distractions if you're very, very rich. Doesn't change it from being a noisy, overcrowded dump though. I suppose whether or not the distractions from that are enough to shift it into an overall experience you want to have depends upon the person. Obviously they're not for me.

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If I was mega rich I would definitely have a flat in London and would visit regularly.

However my main home would be overlooking a left point break somewhere warmish. :D

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London, like any big cosmopolitan city, seems like it might be a good place to live if you're very, very rich. In my limited experience, the people don't seem all that friendly (but that is limited experience), and it seems like an uber-stressful rat race.

I prefer the more laid back life I can get here in Belfast. On a normal wage I can afford my own place in the city centre and my job, as well as all the bars and shops ect...are no more than a 10 minute walk away.

Beautiful countryside fairly nearby too.

London is a tourist town, us natives have no need to desire to interact with people coming in and out of the city. If you ask as a question we will be happy to let you know what you need to know but equally we won't be bothering chit chatting to you on a train. Regardless of that fact possibly 90% of people you interact with in London won't be Londoners, it's always exceptionally novel when I go out side of the city to say a petrol station or fast food place and actually get served by a English person.

This isn't unique to London, go to any tourist area and you will find the same, see what sort of warm welcome you get in the local pubs in Cornwall for example. As The Eagle said in the New York thread most people mistake sales based sycophancy for friendliness, we just don't bother with any of that fake shit in London.

Essentially if you are in London and don't live there you are basically getting in the way, so why would we bother to make a good impression so you can come back and get in the way some more. :D

The thing that makes me laugh about these monthly "London is a shit hole" threads is you bastards still keep coming back, funny that.

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Bumpkin: London is a dump

City wnaker: London is a world city that shows we're the best

Bumpkin: its a dump and life is horrible for most people.

City ******: you're just a loser who can't hack it.

Strange person: I love london because there's always something to do. Yak fondling, tube announcement recital, Monkey poo finger paint exhibition. I LOVE IT!

bumpkin: dump

******: loser

Here endeth the thread. You can all go home now.

:lol: so true

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Is London safer than it was 20 years ago? I lived here in the very early 90s, now living here again. It seemed like reading about a murder was much rarer then, or am I just getting old? London is certainly more fun living here now as someone with a high income rather than as a starving student, but I really don't think that the city has improved over the past 25 years. When I was 18 or 19, I wasn't able to afford to do much, but it was less crowded, had more character and it was a friendlier place. If I had to choose between between 18 and living in the London of 25 years ago, or the London of now, I'd definitely choose the former.

What also strikes me now is how segregated London is. I live in a nice bit of Wandsworth, across the street from a school. I'm pretty sure that every single child in the school is white. Drive 15 minutes (i.e. 2 miles away) though, and there won't be a white face to be seen. Everyone goes on and on about how London is so wonderfully diverse, but there's so little integration that it's absurd. Each group just goes about in their own little bubble, ignoring everyone around them.

Don't worry, I guarantee when the riots are on the populations will be mixing quite energetically. I am predicting none this year, but buckets before 2020 as the despair deepens...

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London is ok if you have money, or if you're poor enough to be in the benefits class and have a free flat in Westminster (I'm not talking about MPs!)

For everyone else it doesn't offer much value for money unless you're the sort of person who only wants a home to sleep and keep clothes in.

As for immigrants, yes, there are more and more. The official stats are meaningless. I worked on a census (and my mother has worked on three) and we both agreed how woefully inaccurate the system was.

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Seems to have gotten like american cities.

So a spotless, heavily policed city centre the nice middle class folk can spend their working hours in, surrounded by miles and miles of what used to be pleasant enough semi-land, now turned into bedsit, immigrant min wage worker and back garden shanty land, surrounded by commuter towns the nice middle class folk can return to at night.

I guess its not quite the same form as the US as we have the green belt, so villages and towns take the place of gated subdivisions, but the white (and middle class indian) flight seems much the same.

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London is ok if you have money, or if you're poor enough to be in the benefits class and have a free flat in Westminster (I'm not talking about MPs!)

For everyone else it doesn't offer much value for money unless you're the sort of person who only wants a home to sleep and keep clothes in.

As for immigrants, yes, there are more and more. The official stats are meaningless. I worked on a census (and my mother has worked on three) and we both agreed how woefully inaccurate the system was.

Really? Officially, in census terms England is 80% white british, 85% white overall.

Hospitals suggest that white british births make up about 70% of all births, 77% white overall. Schools suggest pretty much the same thing. Given the younger profile/breeding age population of non-whites that would seem to suggest the census is pretty accurate.

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Don't forget the terrible air pollution as well - it is the worst in all of Europe and in repeated breach of European air quality standards.

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