Nick Clegg Clashes With Nigel Farage

[snowflux]

The LibDems could promise anything when they never thought they'd be called upon to deliver.

As for Clegg, he has IMO always been blindly pro-Europe. It is like one of the more fanatical types of religion with such people. If he had had anything to do with it we would have been in the Euro like a shot and to me that is enough reason to doubt his credibility on anything.

That's just lazy rhetoric. With exactly the same justification (i.e. none) I could say:

As for Farage, he has IMO always been blindly anti-Europe. It is like one of the more fanatical types of religion with such people.

[snowflux]

Unless circumstances dictate otherwise - your words.

It's hard to imagine what circumstances could dictate otherwise in this instance.

[Bloo Loo]

Then vote Conservative in the general election. If the Conservatives are elected with an absolute majority, they will have to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. There is no way they could politically go back on that promise. Another coalition, however, would give them a way out, especially given that Cameron would probably no longer be PM.

Also, there's no a lot of point voting UKIP in the euro elections. No matter how many UKIP MEP's we have, they do not have the power to take the UK out of the EU; they simply cripple our ability to exercise influence within the EU.

LOL.

[dances with sheeple]

Then vote Conservative in the general election. If the Conservatives are elected with an absolute majority, they will have to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. There is no way they could politically go back on that promise. Another coalition, however, would give them a way out, especially given that Cameron would probably no longer be PM.

Also, there's no a lot of point voting UKIP in the euro elections. No matter how many UKIP MEP's we have, they do not have the power to take the UK out of the EU; they simply cripple our ability to exercise influence within the EU.

Not if it is with UKIP

[robo1968]

Then vote Conservative in the general election. If the Conservatives are elected with an absolute majority, they will have to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. There is no way they could politically go back on that promise. Another coalition, however, would give them a way out, especially given that Cameron would probably no longer be PM.

Also, there's no a lot of point voting UKIP in the euro elections. No matter how many UKIP MEP's we have, they do not have the power to take the UK out of the EU; they simply cripple our ability to exercise influence within the EU.

It's all been promised before though hasn't it.

I am in a tory safe seat, they won't miss my vote, they didn't last time.

[gf3]

All we want is a vote, farage being in power is not what anyone wants including him I expect

Agreed.

Being allowed to vote should be are civil right. What the other politicians seem to be trying to do is time the vote so they get the answer they want. And my personal view is that it's all jobs for the boys. Can you imagine Cameron's kids having to stack shelves at tesco's. Well that's what other bright graduates have to do. No they will find them better jobs than that and if there isn't a better job they will create one.

[dances with sheeple]

That's just lazy rhetoric. With exactly the same justification (i.e. none) I could say:

As for Farage, he has IMO always been blindly anti-Europe. It is like one of the more fanatical types of religion with such people.

If Europe starts QE on a massive scale it will just be a matter of time until it all unravels, in fact they need QE because it IS all unravelling? There will be nothing left to exit from, so problem solved?

[snowflux]

Then at the very least, you would expect all the LibDem MPs to very publicly apologise for not being able to deliver on a very firm promise; "it's a coalition, we can only deliver a small part of what we promised, but it's better than nothing".

Their PR at the start of the coalition was awful, and left a lot of people (myself included) confused as to what exactly the LibDems were doing in government.

I'd also like to have seen the LibDems being more robust in pushing their own policies in government, but I guess they had to give a lot up to secure the alternative vote referendum. And of course, there's always been the spectre of the government collapsing and Labour regaining power to keep heads down.

[Riedquat]

i'm as utterly sick of Farage the giggling clown as I was of Blair and Brown.

Ditto. It's depressing that he's the only one that even addresses the immigration issue (the last thing I want are more people in the UK) but his scaremongering, exaggerating approach makes me suspicious of his motivations and is about as grounded in reality as the other parties' stances. On other issues he's definitely no better than LibLabCon. We desperately need an alternative but I really despair that so many people seem to think that Farage offers one, yet some seem to treat him like some sort of messiah.

Admittedly I've not had the stomach to watch this "debate", was it the expected smug Clegg and childish Farage?

[snowflux]

Not if it is with UKIP

Fair point

Even so, I cannot see how a Conservative government could possibly not hold an EU referendum without massive political damage. Cameron's promise is about as black and white as politics allows, and I'm no particular fan of the man.

[Nationalist]

It was a clear win for the Frenchy (Farage is a French name )

Kudos to Cleggy for turning up, but the floor got wiped with him. Camoron and Millipede of course dare not even take part in such a debate. Neither is safe on Europe. Camoron promised a referendum he didn't deliver; Millipede was a member of a government that sold us down the river.

[dances with sheeple]

Ditto. It's depressing that he's the only one that even addresses the immigration issue (the last thing I want are more people in the UK) but his scaremongering, exaggerating approach makes me suspicious of his motivations and is about as grounded in reality as the other parties' stances. On other issues he's definitely no better than LibLabCon. We desperately need an alternative but I really despair that so many people seem to think that Farage offers one, yet some seem to treat him like some sort of messiah.

Admittedly I've not had the stomach to watch this "debate", was it the expected smug Clegg and childish Farage?

No, it was Clegg realising from the first few seconds, when he lost the toss and had to launch into his "your streets won`t be safe" shite, that he was outgunned and on the wrong side of public opinion. You should watch it, it made me realise why Farage has been kept out of debates for so long. His Ukraine comments will probably go down a storm with voters, where Cleggs Schoolmaster "Really, I know what is best for you" vibe will have them reaching for the sick bucket. As Farage said, people are tired of the dinosaur political parties and their approach.

Galloway, Salmond and Farage are in the same zone when it comes to making establishment politicians look like clowns, they are not always 100% backed by facts maybe, but it is very refreshing!

Edited March 27, 2014 by dances with sheeple

[Mrs Bear]

As for Farage, he has IMO always been blindly anti-Europe. It is like one of the more fanatical types of religion with such people.

Well, I would agree with that, too. I don't like Farage - to me he comes across as a prat.

Personally I would like a third option on any Europe vote - stay in, but have the EU scale down its interference in everything, and look to putting its own house in order re massive waste, fiddling and corruption.

But of course that is never going to happen.

[1929crash]

It's hard to imagine what circumstances could dictate otherwise in this instance.

How about a phone call to Cameron from the NSA saying - 'we know all about your [Fill in the blank] and we don't think it suits our geopolitcial position for you to have a referendum. Now, we wouldn't want [Fill in the Blank] to get into the public domain, would we, sir?'

[Sancho Panza]

Then vote Conservative in the general election. If the Conservatives are elected with an absolute majority, they will have to hold a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. There is no way they could politically go back on that promise. Another coalition, however, would give them a way out, especially given that Cameron would probably no longer be PM.

Also, there's no a lot of point voting UKIP in the euro elections. No matter how many UKIP MEP's we have, they do not have the power to take the UK out of the EU; they simply cripple our ability to exercise influence within the EU.

'The victory of hope over experience.'

Johnson-I think.

[Errol]

Good to see Farage noting that the West has blood on its hands over Ukraine. Without the interference of the US/West the Ukraine mess wouldn't have even started.

[Riedquat]

No, it was Clegg realising from the first few seconds, when he lost the toss and had to launch into his "your streets won`t be safe" shite, that he was outgunned and on the wrong side of public opinion. You should watch it, it made me realise why Farage has been kept out of debates for so long. His Ukraine comments will probably go down a storm with voters, where Cleggs Schoolmaster "Really, I know what is best for you" vibe will have them reaching for the sick bucket. As Farage said, people are tired of the dinosaur political parties and their approach.

So trot out something reactionary to what the other parties are saying and people will lap it up simply because it is reactionary. Why does anyone fall for it? As for the side of public opinion I've got about as much respect for that as I have for Clegg, Miliband, Cameron, and Farage. We're a nation of idiots governed by idiots, with the only vague alternative being different idiots.

[1929crash]

Good to see Farage noting that the West has blood on its hands over Ukraine. Without the interference of the US/West the Ukraine mess wouldn't have even started.

I didn't realise that he had used that phrase. I enjoyed reading this just now on the British state Broadcasting Corporation.

Nick Clegg has gone on the attack following his EU debate with Nigel Farage, accusing the UKIP leader of "siding with Putin" on Ukraine.

At the end of their hour-long clash, Mr Farage said the EU had "blood on its hands" for encouraging revolution.

Mr Clegg, speaking on his weekly LBC radio show, said he was "shocked" by the UKIP leader's comments, which he would raise at the pair's next debate.

A YouGov poll for The Sun suggested that by 57% to 36% Mr Farage had won.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26761258

[Bloo Loo]

I didn't realise that he had used that phrase. I enjoyed reading this just now on the British state Broadcasting Corporation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-26761258

So Cleggs argument concerning the Ukraine is that we support our side, and if we are not supporting our sides view from the top, we MUST be supporting the other.

That is the talk of a zealot.

[snowflux]

So trot out something reactionary to what the other parties are saying and people will lap it up simply because it is reactionary. Why does anyone fall for it? As for the side of public opinion I've got about as much respect for that as I have for Clegg, Miliband, Cameron, and Farage. We're a nation of idiots governed by idiots, with the only vague alternative being different idiots.

No, I don't think they're idiots. Politicians are, in general, self-serving borderline psychopaths with massive egos and thick skins who are happy to lie when it suits them, but then that's democracy. Always has been, always will be. I sometimes think that, prompted by the media, we are coming to expect too much from our politicians, and there's a danger of us turning our backs on democracy completely. That's not a road I fancy going down.

[Riedquat]

No, I don't think they're idiots. Politicians are, in general, self-serving borderline psychopaths with massive egos and thick skins who are happy to lie when it suits them, but then that's democracy. Always has been, always will be. I sometimes think that, prompted by the media, we are coming to expect too much from our politicians, and there's a danger of us turning our backs on democracy completely. That's not a road I fancy going down.

OK, fair point on what politicians really are for the most part. I agree that too many people expect too much from them as well, but even for people with more realistic expectations the politicians on offer still don't have anything. The danger to democracy are the politicians, not the people getting sick of them. However the people getting sick of them are indirectly responsible - even if he got into a position to stand for an election would a sensible, truthful person ever get elected? The only way to win support seems to be to rant against those in power. Your own position doesn't have to stand up to scrutiny one little bit.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Riedquat

[zugzwang]

I didn't realise that he had used that phrase. I enjoyed reading this just now on the British state Broadcasting Corporation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-26761258

Not really a surprise to see that headline from the BBC . I'm guessing there's a good chance that Cleggsy Bear's 'shock' will transform itself into synthetic 'outrage' by the time of the next debate.

On the other hand it amuses me greatly to see the lickspittle hacks and rentier sock puppets at the Torygraph extolling the pro-EU case given that the paper hasn't had a decent thing to say about Brussels in 25 years.

What unutterable hypocrites they are, and totally at odds with the paper's readers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10725571/Verdict-who-won-in-the-Clegg-v-Farage-debate.html

[Reck B]

Fair point

Even so, I cannot see how a Conservative government could possibly not hold an EU referendum without massive political damage. Cameron's promise is about as black and white as politics allows, and I'm no particular fan of the man.

The man cannot be trusted & being damaged politically is a small price to pay for 5 more years of power and remaining in the EU. Just look at the disgraceful behaviour of MP's. They couldn't give a flying ******.

What would the population do if he wiggled out of his second promise for a referendum?

I tell you what we'd do, we'd piss and moan about it on the 'release valves' which are internet forums and comments sections underneath online news articles

And not much else.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Reck B

[dinker]

The EU is a Marxist Bureaucracy, the more successful the UK is the more money we will have to give them.

[gf3]

Nick Clegg has gone on the attack following his EU debate with Nigel Farage, accusing the UKIP leader of "siding with Putin" on Ukraine.

At the end of their hour-long clash, Mr Farage said the EU had "blood on its hands" for encouraging revolution.

Mr Clegg, speaking on his weekly LBC radio show, said he was "shocked" by the UKIP leader's comments, which he would raise at the pair's next debate.

A YouGov poll for The Sun suggested that by 57% to 36% Mr Farage had won.

Clegg wasn't shocked at all. All that happen was the video was played in front of a think tank and line by line syllable by syllable the debate was taken apart and the best response was worked out. I have never been to the Ukraine I can't speak Ukrainian and I don't trust other people to tell me what I should think especially the people who control the media.