Riedquat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I suspect that most people aren't that bothered either way, and that those who in favour of the EU tend not to be particularly passionate about it, seeing it rather as a necessary evil rather than something to celebrate. A bit like going to the dentist. Sounds the most likely explanation. I've little doubt that, with the full force of the three main parties behind it, the pro-EU campaign will be able to win a referendum.. I'm not so sure about that. I feel that there is genuinely quite a lot of widespread dislike for the EU (whether it's based on reality or scaremongering is beside the point), and if the supporters are generally less passionate about it then the turnout on that side will be lower. The media will also play ball: they don't want to lose their whipping boy, so we can expect a lot more pro-EU, anti-UKIP stuff in the papers. Farage is pretty much the face of UKIP and since, as I said, just about every time I've ever heard him I find it very hard to take him seriously, so he hands the papers anti-UKIP stuff on a plate. Things would be a lot more interesting with someone standing against the three main parties who was a solid, serious character not prone to rhetoric and exaggeration but shared the same side of the fence as UKIP, at least to a degree. However politics would be a lot more respected in general if such a person existed in any party at a visible level. I favour remaining in the EU, and I think we will do, but for the wrong reasons. I'm in favour of something but it's not the EU we've got, that's for sure, to the point of rather being out than in. I'd rather it changed than we left though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I feel sorry for you that you think that. If you think that Farage is any more grounded in reality than Clegg you'd do well not to call other peoples' posts idiotic. He's just got different delusions (or deliberate attempts at saying what he feels a particular bunch wants to hear). As I admitted I didn't have the stomach to watch the debate, but if he's grown up enough to put forward a point sensibly and reasonably then I would be very surprised. And that's true even for matters where I stand on the same side of the fence as him, such as the EU. You didn`t watch the debate, yet you are on a thread commenting about it? Isn`t that idiotic squared? You are judging Farage on your past bias, watch the debate, then decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) The readerships of this site and the Telegraph are not representative of the country as a whole. According to yesterday's YouGov poll, the majority of people would vote to remain in the EU: It's a surprise that they don't take advantage and offer a vote now or in the very near future. After all the Russians managed to arrange a vote on the Crimea within a couple of weeks. Or is it the real reason a vote hasn't been arranged is that in actual fact rather than being concerned about a NO vote they don't actually want a firm decision made on the eu at all. For various reasons they might even be just as concerned or even more concerned about a YES vote. Edited March 27, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I think that that is what people actually voted for. Yes, and as Farage said, you would be over 55 if you voted that time? So some voters have been waiting a long time to get proper democracy of the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 You didn`t watch the debate, yet you are on a thread commenting about it? Isn`t that idiotic squared? You are judging Farage on your past bias, watch the debate, then decide. You've not said anything to suggest that he's behaving any differently from how he has done in the past and that watching the debate will therefore add anything new. If all you can do is call me idiotic (at least when I used the word I wasn't directing it straight at any posters here) then all I can assume is that you've got nothing of any actual substance to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'm in favour of something but it's not the EU we've got, that's for sure, to the point of rather being out than in. I'd rather it changed than we left though. They will promise you change they will renegotiate a deal and come back all smiling waving a piece of paper. 30 years time it wont make a bit of difference you voted for it you've got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 They will promise you change they will renegotiate a deal and come back all smiling waving a piece of paper. 30 years time it wont make a bit of difference you voted for it you've got it. Well, quite. It's hard to know what can be done to fix anything when you've completely lost faith and trust of everyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I wish we'd joined the Euro. Houses would be muuuuuuuuuuch cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 They will promise you change they will renegotiate a deal and come back all smiling waving a piece of paper. 30 years time it wont make a bit of difference you voted for it you've got it. You get what you're given. It won't be what you thought you voted for whether it be under the words, Liberal, Labour, Conservative, european union or even UKIP but whatever you thought you voted for you voted yes for whatever it turns out to be. You got the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Here you go they have started. http://www.thesun.co...underpants.html We can expect years of this No doubt Murdoch's useful idiots will be toeing the integrationist line just as hard as the shit shower employed by the Barclay Brothers. They all love, love, love the EU now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This. The Tories cannot be trusted at the best of times, but on the issue of Europe you would be bonkers to expect a referendum. Look at their leader "cast iron" dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) The Sun couldn't contain it's joy at the budget so it's almost certain this time it's going to be behind the Conservatives during the elections. (free paper in a cafe - nothing else to read) Edited March 27, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I wish we'd joined the Euro. Houses would be muuuuuuuuuuch cheaper. That's the real reason we didn't join! The UK derives a much greater share of its national income from the housing cycle. Since this nominal wealth is seldom accompanied by a concomitant increase in productivity it generally has to be paid for through higher inflation. A currency union with the Germans would be too disinflationary for UK plc, we simply couldn't compete on level terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) That's the real reason we didn't join! The UK derives a much greater share of its national income from the housing cycle. Since this nominal wealth is seldom accompanied by a concomitant increase in productivity it generally has to be paid for through higher inflation. A currency union with the Germans would be too disinflationary for UK plc, we simply couldn't compete on level terms. and another reason why they don't want a firm decision/ a referendum on the eu as a YES vote would give extra momentum to joining the euro. Edited March 27, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 You've not said anything to suggest that he's behaving any differently from how he has done in the past and that watching the debate will therefore add anything new. If all you can do is call me idiotic (at least when I used the word I wasn't directing it straight at any posters here) then all I can assume is that you've got nothing of any actual substance to say. Well he has never been on a TV debate before, so that is new. I can`t see the point of taking part in the discussion on this if you haven`t watched the thing being discussed? When I said your post was idiotic it was for this reason, and that it just seemed to say everything and everyone was idiotic and to blame. At least this guy is making a stand for something he believes in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Well he has never been on a TV debate before, so that is new. I can`t see the point of taking part in the discussion on this if you haven`t watched the thing being discussed? When I said your post was idiotic it was for this reason, and that it just seemed to say everything and everyone was idiotic and to blame. At least this guy is making a stand for something he believes in? But does it matter if there's a TV debate? Tell me that it gives us new insights into one or both people involved that I wouldn't have got before instead of calling me an idiot and you'll give me a reason to go and watch it before commenting further. After all, who keeps up-to-date with absolutely everyone says? Need to just concentrate on anything which may be different, and summaries of what other people who have happened to see that particular bit are a useful tool for finding out which bits those are. I tend to find live debates end up with pointscoring and soundbites rather than a serious dissection of the issues. I stand by that pretty much everyone is idiotic and to blame. Would the raison d'etre of this site exist if that wasn't the case? I can't deny that I'm a miserable ******* who's become completely disillusioned with the world. That's quite different from calling me, or me calling you, an idiot though. That's overstepping the line IMO. He might be making a stand for something he believes in (although he's still a politician so it's hard to say for sure), but that's neither here nor there. How well do those beliefs stack up? How do you feel about people who stand roughly in the same place as you on an issue but with who you have rather a disagreement of the way they present things or different direction they may have come from to arrive at that place? When it comes to someone who is ultimately asking for your vote what if you agree with them on one issue but dislike them as much as the others on everything else? (I suppose that makes them marginally less bad, but in that situation it's hard to not just walk away in despair). Edited March 27, 2014 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Let's have some more of these debates. I'd like to see Farage wipe the floor with Cameron and Miliband too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I wish we'd joined the Euro. Houses would be muuuuuuuuuuch cheaper. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 But does it matter if there's a TV debate? Tell me that it gives us new insights into one or both people involved that I wouldn't have got before instead of calling me an idiot and you'll give me a reason to go and watch it before commenting further. After all, who keeps up-to-date with absolutely everyone says? Need to just concentrate on anything which may be different, and summaries of what other people who have happened to see that particular bit are a useful tool for finding out which bits those are. I tend to find live debates end up with pointscoring and soundbites rather than a serious dissection of the issues. I stand by that pretty much everyone is idiotic and to blame. Would the raison d'etre of this site exist if that wasn't the case? I can't deny that I'm a miserable ******* who's become completely disillusioned with the world. That's quite different from calling me, or me calling you, an idiot though. That's overstepping the line IMO. He might be making a stand for something he believes in (although he's still a politician so it's hard to say for sure), but that's neither here nor there. How well do those beliefs stack up? How do you feel about people who stand roughly in the same place as you on an issue but with who you have rather a disagreement of the way they present things or different direction they may have come from to arrive at that place? When it comes to someone who is ultimately asking for your vote what if you agree with them on one issue but dislike them as much as the others on everything else? (I suppose that makes them marginally less bad, but in that situation it's hard to not just walk away in despair). I originally said your post was idiotic, because you were slagging everything off and not addressing my point which was THE DEBATE. I agree that everyone is to blame for the economic mess we are in, but this is about a mainstream politician being stopped from just spouting all the usual sound bites because Farage was at last given a forum. The only other one that rips through the Westminster crowd regularly is Salmond (Galloway doesn`t get nearly as much air time) I would credit Farage with having more substance in his claims than Salmond any day though, the SNP are literally making it up as they go along IMO. I don`t think you should post further on here though until you have watched the debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Let's have some more of these debates. I'd like to see Farage wipe the floor with Cameron and Miliband too . I would like to see him in a boxing match with Miliband. Round two of this debate is scheduled for soon on BBC 2 I think. Anyone got polling info for UKIP following this opening debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 In Holland at the moment and listened to the debate on the radio and actually really enjoyed it. I thought it was great for us all to see / hear this and I hope we get more of it Anyway I thought that Farage actually won without any trouble at all and I thought Clegg was out of his depth and comes across as a blind faith idiot. I think just call me Dave Cowardameron needs to get his nads on the table and show us what he is made of I am voting UKIP at the next election, unless I change my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 In Holland at the moment and listened to the debate on the radio and actually really enjoyed it. I thought it was great for us all to see / hear this and I hope we get more of it Anyway I thought that Farage actually won without any trouble at all and I thought Clegg was out of his depth and comes across as a blind faith idiot. I think just call me Dave Cowardameron needs to get his nads on the table and show us what he is made of I am voting UKIP at the next election, unless I change my mind If the Labour/Con back benchers who want out of Europe had any balls they would defect to UKIP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 If the Labour/Con back benchers who want out of Europe had any balls they would defect to UKIP? they have Balls but everyone hates him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I don`t think you should post further on here though until you have watched the debate Which I am doing, since the question I asked hasn't been answered. Does it tell us anything new about either Clegg or Farage? I see no point in watching it unless the answer is "Yes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Which I am doing, since the question I asked hasn't been answered. Does it tell us anything new about either Clegg or Farage? I see no point in watching it unless the answer is "Yes." You watching the debate would be a waste of your time. Us reading comment from some one that hasn't watched it is a waste of our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.