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dinker

Australia Abolishes Carbon Tax

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Great for Australians, not so great for their children, and disastrous for their grandchildren.

If, by rational, you mean utterly selfish and short-sighted, then yes, I guess they are being rational. Personally, I'd rather have politicians with a somewhat longer-term view.

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If the Russians cut of the gas, we shall probably see some back pedalling in Europe, and switching back to coal. The Germans seem to have already been asking themselves if their energy change actually made any sense. Lots of cost, not much benefit.

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On my visits to Australia, I have observed that their grasp of all things green is patchy. They'll show films of running your Landcruiser on chip oil but in a drought, automatically water the median strips on their roads every night. They broadcast appeals on TV in the afternoons not to switch on the aircon in order to save fuel. Conflicted, the lot of them!

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No wonder the Australian economy is in such good shape, they have rational politicians rather than the loonies we have here. First they refuse to take in Asylum Seekers and now they are abolishing all the Climate Change bureaucrats:

http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/cleaner-environment/clean-air/repealing-carbon-tax

Abolishing the carbon tax was in the election manifesto. Politician keeps promise. News in and of itself. Hopefully our politicians will develop

a similar level of wisdom while we still have some industry left. The green doomsday cult in it's current manifestation really is time expired.

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Just ban all imports from India and China. Job done!

I beg to differ.

India and china are our best friends...you don't realise it yet, but they are economically and militarily getting pumped up to wipe out the people who have been subjecting us to "financial repression"(especially india)

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No wonder the Australian economy is in such good shape, they have rational politicians rather than the loonies we have here. First they refuse to take in Asylum Seekers and now they are abolishing all the Climate Change bureaucrats:

http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/cleaner-environment/clean-air/repealing-carbon-tax

Keep up. The economy here is going down the $hitter fast. Carbon tax is the least of issues for businesses.

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Meanwhile in other news...

Indeed. Reality has a left-wing bias, you know. And you'd be surprised to see just how many thermometers are members of Greenpeace, and a set of rain gauges were recently found to be a secret splinter cell of Earth First!

There are tentative predictions of an El Nino event later this year, with an emphasis on tentative. Would be climatologically interesting, to say the least.

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Indeed. Reality has a left-wing bias, you know. And you'd be surprised to see just how many thermometers are members of Greenpeace, and a set of rain gauges were recently found to be a secret splinter cell of Earth First!

There are tentative predictions of an El Nino event later this year, with an emphasis on tentative. Would be climatologically interesting, to say the least.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/20/australian-heatwaves-are-nothing-new/

quote: "Why don’t we hear of these severe heatwaves from the past? Simple – the government Bureau of Meteorology conveniently ignores all temperature records before 1910."

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Indeed. Reality has a left-wing bias, you know.

Well, it does after you 'adjust' the historical record multiple times.

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Keep up. The economy here is going down the $hitter fast. Carbon tax is the least of issues for businesses.

Is it?

Or is it just like in Switzerland, where they declare a crisis if unemployment goes over 3%?

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http://wattsupwithth...re-nothing-new/

quote: "Why don't we hear of these severe heatwaves from the past? Simple – the government Bureau of Meteorology conveniently ignores all temperature records before 1910."

From your link:

In the great heatwave of 1896, with nearly 200 deaths, the temperature at Bourke did not fall below 45.6 degC for six weeks, and the maximum was 53.3 degC. Bushfires raged throughout NSW and 66 people perished in the heat.

In 1897, Perth had an 18 day heatwave with a record of 43.3 degC. Other heatwaves were reported at Winton, 1891, Melbourne 1892, Boulia 1901, Sydney 1903, Perth 1906 and so on.

The temperature claims made here aren't supported by the only evidence the author links to for verification - a nineteenth century newspaper clipping from 1896 based on various telegrams and available here http://trove.nla.gov...rticle/64889112 Quite apart from the fact that it doesn't mention any of the other years cited (and clearly couldn't for those post-dating 1896) it only mentions a single day, four day average and one month average for Bourke, with no mention of six week periods above any temperature and no mention of any maximum; in fact the article primarily discusses temperatures in the 40 degC range and only mentions one possible temperature outside that range of 51.67 degC reported via a telegram of unconfirmed source from Geraldton. None of the temperatures mentioned in the original link are supported by this source.

So let's have a look at the Australian Bureau of Meterology's recorded temperatures from these locations in the years specified. Contrary to the opinion of the author from the original link many of the BofM's records for particular locations start over various dates in the nineteenth century and are freely available from their website (I suspect their tendency to focus press releases on average temperature trends across the whole of Australia on datasets from 1910 onwards probably indicates that this is the year from which they have sufficiently full coverage to accurately monitor countrywide trends rather than just specific locals).

First lets deal with Bourke, for which the BofM has daily maximum temperature records dating back to 1871: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=048013 This recorded data shows that the longest period that Bourke spent at or above 45.6 degC in 1896 was 12 consecutive days (in fact Bourke only spent a total of 16 days at or above 45.6 degC during the entire year) which is considerably less than the six consecutive weeks claimed. Bourke also did not have a recorded temperature of 53.3 degC as claimed, in fact it didn't enter the 50s at all that year as its highest recorded temperature in 1896 was 48.6 degC (reached on two non-consecutive days during January).

If we're generous we might assume that the author got confused (both as to the name of the town and how to correctly convert farenheit to celsius) and was referring to the temperature of 51.67 degC reported to have possibly occurred at Grampton in a telegram quoted in the cited newspaper article. However the BofM has monthly mean maximum temperature data for Grampton from 1880 onwards: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=008050 This recorded data shows that the highest monthly mean maximum temperature recorded in Grampton in 1896 was 30.9 degC, which makes the temperature claimed in the telegram extremely unlikely given the rest of the month would have had to be unseasonably cool in order to average out any time spent at 51.67 degC to a monthly average over 20 degC lower. So again, the recorded data doesn't show any evidence of maximum temperatures reaching 53.3 degC.

Moving on to Perth, the nearest BofM station covering the period is Bathurst Gaol, which is 7km from the centre of Perth and has daily maximum temperature records dating back to 1858: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=063004 This recorded data shows that in 1897 Bathurst Gaol spent two days at 40 degC, with one intervening day of 41.1 degC (the highest recorded temperature that year), and that its highest monthly mean temperature was 30.7 degC. Bathurst Gaol does spend 15 consecutive days in 1897 at over 30 degC (temperatures ranging from 30.6 degC to those final three days at 40-41.1 degC) but this doesn't appear to represent any significant heatwave given the recorded monthly mean temperatures for January and February 1897 (over which this 15 day period straddled) are 4.4 degC and 5 degC lower, respectively, than the highest monthly mean temperatures recorded in these months at Bathurst Gaol between 1858 and 1983. Given Bathurst Gaol's close proximity to the centre of Perth this data makes the claims of an 18 day heatwave reaching 43.3 degC fairly unlikely. Certainly it offers no evidence to support the author's unsubstantiaed claims. Equally the hottest months in 1906 at Bathurst Gaol are 1.9 degC, 3.6 degC and 4.5 degC (January, February and December respectively) lower than the highest monthly mean temperatures recorded at that station between 1858 and 1983. Again this would indicate that the temperatures reached in the centre of Perth 7km away were likely to be lower than the highest recorded for that area.

The nearest BofM post to Winton that was open in 1891 was 109.5 km away at Armidale http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=056002 This may not be particularly useful due to the distance involved (which perhaps gives you some indication as to why earlier, patchier, records from the nineteenth century are not commonly referred to) but which shows that the monthly mean temperatures for the hottest months of the year were fairly normal for the period and actually cooler than the fifteen years that followed (1892 to 1906).

For Melbourne the BofM has monthly mean maximum temperature records dating back to 1855: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=086071 From this recorded data we can see that the hottest months 1892 were again fairly normal for the period and cooler than the following three years (1893 to 1895).

For Boulia the BofM has monthly mean maximum temperature records dating back to 1888: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=038003 From this recorded data we can see that the hottest months in 1901 were, yet again, fairly normal for the period and cooler than the following year (1902).

For Sydney the BofM has monthly mean maximum temperature records dating back to 1859: http://www.bom.gov.a..._stn_num=066062 From this recorded data we can see that the hottest months in 1903 were also fairly normal, with the only rise in monthly mean maximum temperatures being that of 1 degC in February (from an average of 26.2 degC in 1902 to an average of 27.2 degC in 1903).

All in all the opinions stated in the original link are unsubstantiated (not even being supported by their own citation) and refuted by recorded evidence which in no way suggests that temperatures of 50-54 degC should be considered at all normal, even in Australia!

Edit: given the only citation was to a nineteenth century newspaper clipping, I wonder whether the author had gotten most of their information from old newspapers which, I would hazard, were probably just as likely to write for sensationalism above accuracy as the current lot are today!

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Is it?

Or is it just like in Switzerland, where they declare a crisis if unemployment goes over 3%?

WA is going down rapidly. My partner is a chemical engineer and in Iranian circles 'Engineer' is second only to god. Despite this every week another one of her extensive expat community friends is signing on at Centre link and these are engineers with 10 years plus experience in civil, mechanical or petroleum engineering not graduates.

WA is awash with resources but its too fricking expensive to exploit them - a major adjustment is needed starting with the insane (housing costs) cost of living

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All in all the opinions stated in the original link are unsubstantiated (not even being supported by their own citation) and refuted by recorded evidence which in no way suggests that temperatures of 50-54 degC should be considered at all normal, even in Australia!

Edit: given the only citation was to a nineteenth century newspaper clipping, I wonder whether the author had gotten most of their information from old newspapers which, I would hazard, were probably just as likely to write for sensationalism above accuracy as the current lot are today!

You're being skeptical of skeptic claims! This is clearly unfair. :lol:

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WA is going down rapidly. My partner is a chemical engineer and in Iranian circles 'Engineer' is second only to god. Despite this every week another one of her extensive expat community friends is signing on at Centre link and these are engineers with 10 years plus experience in civil, mechanical or petroleum engineering not graduates.

WA is awash with resources but its too fricking expensive to exploit them - a major adjustment is needed starting with the insane (housing costs) cost of living

They clearly have a land shortage over there..

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They clearly have a land shortage over there..

Yes it's not easy to see how Australia could possibly have a house price bubble without massive corruption on the part of government.

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Yes it's not easy to see how Australia could possibly have a house price bubble without massive corruption on the part of government.

Investment buying (ie residential property speculation and ramping) is the national religion in Australia. It is worse than in the UK.

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I'm confused. Record low temperatures were "weather not climate" a few years ago, but a week of record hot weather in Australia is suddenly concrete evidence of climate change. Both or neither I would have thought.

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I'm confused. Record low temperatures were "weather not climate" a few years ago, but a week of record hot weather in Australia is suddenly concrete evidence of climate change. Both or neither I would have thought.

How about 'Records for high temperatures being broken far more often than records for cold temperatures'? Less catchy, I know..

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How about 'Records for high temperatures being broken far more often than records for cold temperatures'? Less catchy, I know..

The story being highlighted was that Australia is due a record high temperature next week and put up as evidence of climate change. Nothing about high temperatures being broken more often than cold temperatures as far as I can see.

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I'm confused. Record low temperatures were "weather not climate" a few years ago, but a week of record hot weather in Australia is suddenly concrete evidence of climate change. Both or neither I would have thought.

It's a bit silly to say I was offering up the change to the BofM's temperature scale as "concrete evidence of climate change" when I was clearly poking fun at the incongruity between the BofM and the government! There is quite a lot of scientific evidence out there that indicates it's very likely that anthropogenic climate change is occurring, but the BofM's colouring in does not amount to such! Also, anyone who claims that evidence offers "concrete" proof rather than a high degree of probability is not being very scientific! :blink:

If you'd like to have a look through some of the evidence for anthropogenic climate change the BofM carries a lot of information here: http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/index.shtml#tabs=Tracker&tracker=timeseries This graph is particularly interesting in relation to Australian temperature trends:

tmean.aus.0112.14442.png

For easy reading a good general overview of the current evidence for and against anthropogenic climate change can be found at Skeptical Science, which provides a lot of links to peer reviewed literature so you can go through to the original research papers and check their methodology and raw data if you want to get deeper into the subject: https://www.skepticalscience.com/

If you're minded to search out further information online it's also worth turning off the google personalised search function - you can do so here https://support.goog...wer/54048?hl=en - as this function ranks results according to their similarity with pages your browser has already accessed so tends to encourage a self-reinforcing bias and discourage balanced access to information (don't be evil my ar*e). Also, always follow citation links: it's surprising how often people seem to confuse their own opinions with facts when under 5 minutes of research, often via their own citations, will show you quite categorically that they are mistaken!

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