Mcdonald’S February Sales Drop As U.s. Slumps For Fourth Month

[Liquid Goldfish]

I think people can't afford McDonald's anymore so they're going to Wendy's instead. It's not a recovery, more like a slow trudge to the bottom.

Isn't Wendy's quite a bit more expensive? It used to be.

EDIT: the rest of my post was rubbish!

Edited March 12, 2014 by oldsport

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Isn't Wendy's quite a bit more expensive? It used to be.

Back in the day's of Wendy's Pantry (or Wendy's Panties as all my friends used to call it) it was definitely a step or two up from McD - but that was 25 years ago. These days the Wendy's stores in North America at least are like a grubbier version of McDonald's. To be honest, I don't know if they're actually any cheaper because I never buy food from either of them but they certainly look like they should be charging less. Also, it does look like Wendy's are doing a bit better at the moment.

[MarkG]

These days the Wendy's stores in North America at least are like a grubbier version of McDonald's.

Wendy's seem to be better and more expensive here, though not a lot in it. I usually go to one of the local burger stores, which is better than both, and not much more expensive.

I still miss the Carfax Chippy now and again, but I hadn't been there in years before leaving the UK, so have no idea whether it's still any good.

[Liquid Goldfish]

Back in the day's of Wendy's Pantry (or Wendy's Panties as all my friends used to call it) it was definitely a step or two up from McD - but that was 25 years ago. These days the Wendy's stores in North America at least are like a grubbier version of McDonald's. To be honest, I don't know if they're actually any cheaper because I never buy food from either of them but they certainly look like they should be charging less. Also, it does look like Wendy's are doing a bit better at the moment.

Yes, I am talking about a long, long time ago when I lived there for a short time! I'm sure it's all changed.

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Wendy's seem to be better and more expensive here, though not a lot in it. I usually go to one of the local burger stores, which is better than both, and not much more expensive.

I still miss the Carfax Chippy now and again, but I hadn't been there in years before leaving the UK, so have no idea whether it's still any good.

Interesting. The only one I've been anywhere near in Toronto looks like a hole. One of the very few things I miss about the UK is being able to get proper chip-shop chips.

[Liquid Goldfish]

Interesting. The only one I've been anywhere near in Toronto looks like a hole. One of the very few things I miss about the UK is being able to get proper chip-shop chips.

I would miss them too. But you could make your own occasionally - the proper size and shape and fried in beef dripping. It's one of my few cooking skills. So it must be easy!

Edited March 12, 2014 by oldsport

[1929crash]

Is it left wing to observe that the companies most strongly identified with low wages might have been wiser to champion higher wages- given that their very survival as going concerns depends on a degree of disposable income being available to their customers- many of whom are to be found in the same socio-economic groups whose wage rates they are partially responsible for setting?

Suppose every business in the US had the ability to set wages at bare subsistence level- so that most of the population could afford to eat only basic food and live in small rented apartments- and do nothing else, or buy nothing else-

Would this be a smart move on the part of those business's? Or would they find themselves plunging into an abyss of insolvency as their sales dried up?

Capitalism is like the game of monopoly in the sense that once most of the money has been captured by a single player the game ends- so it may well be that the only way to save the free market will be to enforce a bit more 'lefty economics' in the form of wealth redistribution before the capitalists end up with all the money and the game ends- at which point their 'capital' will cease to be of value because the game will have changed- with a new set of players and a new set of rules.

High wages was the strategy employed by Henry Ford, and no doubt was a major factor in the level of car ownership in USA in 1925 not being reached in UK until 1965 (trivial fact from the series The People's Century - 'On the Line').

Edited March 12, 2014 by 1929crash

[Guest TheBlueCat]

I would miss them too. But you could make your own occasionally - the proper size and shape and fried in beef dripping. It's one of my few cooking skills. So it must be easy!

I do, and I get reasonably close. It's hard to find compatible spuds here though, pretty much none of the British varieties are available. Heston did a really good write up about it after visiting A Salt & Battery in New York to see what they did. The conclusion was that, without the exact same potatoes and oil, they couldn't quite replicate the taste. It's a small price to pay though tbh, and I'm back in the UK often enough that I can get my fill then!

[Liquid Goldfish]

I do, and I get reasonably close. It's hard to find compatible spuds here though, pretty much none of the British varieties are available. Heston did a really good write up about it after visiting A Salt & Battery in New York to see what they did. The conclusion was that, without the exact same potatoes and oil, they couldn't quite replicate the taste. It's a small price to pay though tbh, and I'm back in the UK often enough that I can get my fill then!

Yep, the spuds make a huge difference. I read that chip shops mainly use Maris Piper for most of the year and then rotate onto others when that crop finishes.

Do they sell beef dripping? Then again that may not be what you're used to anyway. Here oop North it's what chippies traditionally use although I think many have changed to vegetable oil.

Edited March 12, 2014 by oldsport

[MarkG]

High wages was the strategy employed by Henry Ford, and no doubt was a major factor in the level of car ownership in USA in 1925 not being reached in UK until 1965 (trivial fact from the series The People's Century - 'On the Line').

Ford paid high wages because his annual employee turnover was close to 400% when he paid low wages. Imagine having to replace your entire production line staff every three months, and you'll see why paying more could save him money.

The same doesn't really apply to burger flippers, where skills are much lower.

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Yep, the spuds make a huge difference. I read that chip shops mainly use Maris Piper for most of the year and then rotate onto others when that crop finishes.

Do they sell beef dripping? Then again that may not be what you're used to anyway. Here oop North it's what chippies traditionally use although I think many have changed to vegetable oil.

Ah, for a bag of Maris Piper. I actually looked into what would be involved in importing some tubers but it's basically impossible due to issues around blight.

I've not seen beef dripping for sale but then I've not really looked as I've never really liked the after-taste (and I'm a vegetarian these days too). Generally I'd want to use sunflower oil and sometimes I can find that here, sometimes I have to settle for maize oil, which doesn't go quite as hot.

[wonderpup]

Ford paid high wages because his annual employee turnover was close to 400% when he paid low wages. Imagine having to replace your entire production line staff every three months, and you'll see why paying more could save him money.

The same doesn't really apply to burger flippers, where skills are much lower.

Not according to Ford Himself;

But Ford had an even bigger reason for raising his wages, which he noted in a 1926 book, Today and Tomorrow. It’s as a challenging a statement today as it as 100 years ago. “The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers. One’s own employees ought to be one’s own best customers.”

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/archives/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html

So Ford clearly understood that a mass market consumer society could only thrive if it paid wages high enough to allow those workers to consume.

The question is would Mc Donalds and Walmart be making more profit if the wages of their target demographics were higher- and I think the answer is yes.

So while it seems short term smart to drive wages as low as possible- if your target consumers are the ones being paid those low wages then it may be long term dumb.

[Executive Sadman]

Not according to Ford Himself;

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/archives/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html

So Ford clearly understood that a mass market consumer society could only thrive if it paid wages high enough to allow those workers to consume.

The question is would Mc Donalds and Walmart be making more profit if the wages of their target demographics were higher- and I think the answer is yes.

So while it seems short term smart to drive wages as low as possible- if your target consumers are the ones being paid those low wages then it may be long term dumb.

Fords anti-semitism probably stemmed from his hatred of the vampire banks. Unfortunate he put it down to 'the jews' (as many then did) instead of realizing banks are simply evil entities that recruit from all races and creeds.

There can be no freedom until the banks are wiped from the face of the earth.

[Venger]

The question is would Mc Donalds and Walmart be making more profit if the wages of their target demographics were higher- and I think the answer is yes.

These businesses don't have some superior right to exist and prosper. I'd like to see more independent businesses break onto the turf of over-expanded businesses in all sectors.

Was part of RBS's problem....gobbling up business after business, at higher prices. Success = you own it all?

Now at least parts of it broken up and sold off, for other entrants to run.

I have got some sympathies for positions in this thread though. Some of the reasons Rome fell over the decades, as I understand it, was Oligarchs taking over more and more of the lands... farmers lands... fewer citizens with a stake in society, or able to get a stake... debt traps/usury taken from family's trying to cover when soldiers away on campaigns or a bad harvest.

[MarkG]

Not according to Ford Himself;

No, according to Ford himself:

"The payment of high wages fortunately contributes to the low costs because the men become steadily more efficient on account of being relieved of outside worries. The payment of five dollars a day for an eight-hour day was one of the finest cost-cutting moves we ever made, and the six-dollar day wage is cheaper than the five. How far this will go, we do not know."

"The large wage had other results. In 1914, when the first plan went into effect, we had 14,000 employees and it had been necessary to hire at the rate of about 53,000 a year in order to keep a constant force of 14,000. In 1915 we had to hire only 6,508 men and the majority of these new men were taken on because of the growth of the business. With the old turnover of labour and our present force we should have to hire at the rate of nearly 200,000 men a year—which would be pretty nearly an impossible proposition. Even with the minimum of instruction that is required to master almost any job in our place, we cannot take on a new staff each morning, or each week, or each month; for, although a man may qualify for acceptable work at an acceptable rate of speed within two or three days, he will be able to do more after a year's experience than he did at the beginning."

From 'My Life and Work' by Henry Ford.

[dances with sheeple]

No idea what you are saying, but I did read that he lived on coke and burgers, so maybe his love of what he does keeps him healthy, because lets face it many his age are just sitting slumped in a chair in a care home?

[Executive Sadman]

Fords anti-semitism probably stemmed from his hatred of the vampire banks. Unfortunate he put it down to 'the jews' (as many then did) instead of realizing banks are simply evil entities that recruit from all races and creeds.

There can be no freedom until the banks are wiped from the face of the earth.

further to this post

http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

yes, ford knew well the parasitic nature of banks.

[wonderpup]

No, according to Ford himself

Since both of us are quoting from the same source- the man himself- we are both right- Ford did indeed want to reduce his staff turnover- but he also believed that wages and profits were linked in a consumer society- which is actually blindingly obvious.

If you think about it a 100% efficient capitalism would be be one that produced infinite profits at no cost- but even as a complete abstraction this idea has a fairly obvious flaw- no cost means no wages which means no sales.

So in reality Capitalism only works to the degree that it is unable to eliminate it's own labor costs- it survives because it's inefficient.

[John51]

IV. The �Right� Way to Live

How did Ford determine if a worker was living right and should get the full $5?� He set up the �sociological department� which sent investigators into all of the workers� homes to observe how they were living and ask a lot of questions, particularly about alcohol use, marital relations, and spending habits.

The investigators were looking for evidence of the following: �thrift, cleanliness, sobriety, family values, and good morals in general.� The head of the sociological department, S.S. Marquis, said: �Nothing tends to lower a man�s efficiency more than wrong family relations.� Henry Ford thought thrift was a very important quality because it indicated that a person had self-control, self-respect, responsibility, and would work steadily and diligently.�� Good morals and proper family relations held a particularly middle class (or �bourgeois�) definition.� This definition was often forced upon working-class and immigrant workers.

Ford�s Five Dollar Day program was set up in late 1914. In 1915 it cost Ford $18,000 to operate the sociological department, and he distributed nearly $8 million in profits to about 19,000 workers at Highland Park.

What if a worker didn�t cooperate with the sociological department or didn�t meet the standards?� He would only receive the regular wage ($2.34), and he was given six months to comply with the department�s standards for living.� If he did not meet the standards after six months, then he was fired.

http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~ppennock/L-FiveDollarDay.htm

How many McJob workers would go for the above?

How many members here would get fired after 6 months?

I don't think the economy is the only reason McD is struggling. McD are paying the price for being bean counter 'efficent' in their store design. Their kitchens are just not big enough to be flexible so the competition is trouncing them. To me, there seems to be a lot more people using fast food joints than 10 or 15 years ago and McD is steadily losing market share..

[wonderpup]

How many McJob workers would go for the above?

For a 100% pay rise? Probably more than we would like to think.

[macbeth79]

Strange i have stopped eating in macdonalds because as i am getting older eating healthier is more important, i spend more than the price of a meal in macs so it is not the price.

On thursday for dinner i had a Kleftiko with rice and vegetables washed down with mineral water which cost £10.50

[Ulfar]

Strange i have stopped eating in macdonalds because as i am getting older eating healthier is more important, i spend more than the price of a meal in macs so it is not the price.

On thursday for dinner i had a Kleftiko with rice and vegetables washed down with mineral water which cost £10.50

From what I understand this isn't much more than Macdonalds or Burger king. I have to admit it is a very long time since I have been in either place as it is usually cheaper and better to find a local non-chain cafe to buy food from.

[macbeth79]

From what I understand this isn't much more than Macdonalds or Burger king. I have to admit it is a very long time since I have been in either place as it is usually cheaper and better to find a local non-chain cafe to buy food from.

True, the quality of food is the most important of all factors.

[John51]

For a 100% pay rise? Probably more than we would like to think.

With 1 exception, I don't know anyone that would pass the sobriety/gambling/tidyness/domestic harmony home visit.

[wonderpup]

With 1 exception, I don't know anyone that would pass the sobriety/gambling/tidyness/domestic harmony home visit.

How many would fake it for one day in return for a doubling of their pay?