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JoeDavola

For The Technies Out There - Web Development Platforms

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I know there's a few techies here so I figured this might be a good place to post this question.

I am a software developer by trade and have been working for about 7 years. During that time I've kind of been a jack of all trades but master of none, but this means I've gained a wider breadth of experience than many of my peers, so I see it as a good thing.

I've had an idea for a startup brewing over the past year; nothing too groundbreaking technologically (but then again, neither were Facebook or What'sApp), but I think I have a good way to package several things together in a way that would genuinely provide value to a certain kind of person. It would combine web front ends with IOS/Android apps.

I can visualize this whole product offering in my head, but I'm trying to make a decision what technology stack to use when developing it. I've been dissapointed at the seeming lack of technology-agnostic forums out there where software folk can discuss architecture - does anyone know of any?

In terms of front end I'd be using HTML5 obviously, and to save development time I'd probably try and make the IOS/Android apps just thin wrappers over more HTML5 stuff, with the native code being used to trigger any real time events that the app might need to take into consideration. I'd rather have apps written entirely for IOS/Android, especially since it means they would work offline, but I don't think I have the time to do this.

My two big questions come when it comes to data access stuff, and the issue of cloud computing.

In terms of data access, I've used ASP.net/C# before but wouldn't be looking to use this again. I've heard that the kids nowadays are using Javascript for just about everything, so I've gotten myself a load of modern JavaScript tutorials and am looking into this. Any techies here care to share what technology stack they would use, or where I should go about researching such a thing?

The other issue is cloud based services, and when to use them. I'd consider what I'm offering to be a Software As A Service type thing, and one of the things that it would do is 'spawn' a few webpages for that user. But I could write one instance of the system that loads all that stuff from one database per user obviously - the question is when is it necessary to actually use these cloud services, or are you just overcomplicating things for no good reason?

All opinions appreciated, apologies if I've bored anyone to death here ;) If anyone can think of somewhere better for me to post this feel free to let me know :)

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The beauty of software as a service now is that it is possible to set up such a company cheaply and quickly. Ten years ago it was not possibile. Now, all you need is the idea, the skills to code something and your backend is basically already set up as a service you buy in from Amazon, Microsoft, 101 others.

If you are an App developer then you need to be in Java/Javascript basically, with some HTML 5, as your front end and your backend can be whatever you wish it to be - you just have to write your app to talk to your backend :lol:

That is the really beauty of where we are now and why 12 year olds are becoming billionaires. Oddly enough, I was just checking out that Android Developers Conference website and a link came up for some app's website and that the CEO would be at the conference - he looked about 15! No, seriously, he looked about 15. Probably will be retired by the time he is 20.

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That is the really beauty of where we are now and why 12 year olds are becoming billionaires. Oddly enough, I was just checking out that Android Developers Conference website and a link came up for some app's website and that the CEO would be at the conference - he looked about 15! No, seriously, he looked about 15. Probably will be retired by the time he is 20.

That's the problem with today's world. The bankers have rigged the system for their own benefit and no-one has any chance of making it through talent and innovation. Social mobility is dead.

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I'm using the Play framework/Java + Javascript + Knockout at the moment, FWIW. I'm getting along with it quite well, which isn't bad as I am no web developer (or wasn't, I guess ;) )..

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The beauty of software as a service now is that it is possible to set up such a company cheaply and quickly. Ten years ago it was not possibile. Now, all you need is the idea, the skills to code something and your backend is basically already set up as a service you buy in from Amazon, Microsoft, 101 others.

But what is about these cloud services that makes it easier to set these things up on a shoestring? Is it the fact that hosting/bandwith can be expanded and contracted as neeeded, so you can scale up as much as possible?

I guess I don't completely understand why I should run my software on the cloud vs on an apache web server somewhere, but this is a decsion that I need to make early on as I'd guess that it has a big impact on how the software is actually written?

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But what is about these cloud services that makes it easier to set these things up on a shoestring? Is it the fact that hosting/bandwith can be expanded and contracted as neeeded, so you can scale up as much as possible?

Yes, and you only pay for what you use so, if no-one accesses your site, it won't cost you much. Also, you get fault tolerance and all that good stuff in with the price. A single box in a rack somewhere has a fixed cost regardless of load and, it it blows up, you then have to go through full recovery process to get it back.

I guess I don't completely understand why I should run my software on the cloud vs on an apache web server somewhere, but this is a decsion that I need to make early on as I'd guess that it has a big impact on how the software is actually written?

If you go with AWS orsimilar it will still run under Apache, it's just the whole machine will be virtual.

On the tech side, I'd suggest:

Pure HTML5/CSS3/Jquery on the client side

Python Flask on the back end

What kind of database you use will depend on what type of site it is. MySQL is likely to be the simplest but something like Mongo might be more appropriate.

If you site is an actual success then expect to chuck everything away and start from scratch when you want to scale it properly.

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That's the problem with today's world. The bankers have rigged the system for their own benefit and no-one has any chance of making it through talent and innovation. Social mobility is dead.

I agree; so you just have to define what 'making it' is. The idea of getting promoted and the difference in wage being enough to buy a bigger house or any real quality of life increase is no longer valid for most plebs.

I think the idea of 'rich' nowadays is wealth in terms of time - try and carve out the life that you want whilst having as much free time as possible.

If I can write some software that say 200 people will pay me £20 a month for, then I won't be rich but I can manage it from any part of the world and won't have to work 40 hour weeks.

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But what is about these cloud services that makes it easier to set these things up on a shoestring? Is it the fact that hosting/bandwith can be expanded and contracted as neeeded, so you can scale up as much as possible?

Basically, yes.

In some respects the Cloud is just a trendy name for having space hosted on a sever somewhere. Where it differs is when you need to scale up.

You might write an app for online dating - good choice - and at first it can manage OK on a single server hosted somewhere in a conventional way. But then your app becomes successful and peple start accessing it all over the world so you need to scale up your backend for speed/access times - then you need something like a CDN which is a content delivery network... which is basically the cloud... meaning your web site is replicated globally and hosted on numerous servers.

Hence why I tell people to use Wordpress as their frontend - you can get off the shelf Wordpress plugins that distribute your website to the likes of Akamai or Amazon - you have to pay them of course - but it is easy to do that then to do all the coding and managing yourself.

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you get fault tolerance and all that good stuff in with the price. A single box in a rack somewhere has a fixed cost regardless of load and, it it blows up, you then have to go through full recovery process to get it back.

That is a very good point; hadn't thought of that. No need to worry about backups and whatnot. I seem to remember that some of these cloud providers have server farms on different sides of the world so that even if the bomb drops on one of them, your site will still be up.

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That is a very good point; hadn't thought of that. No need to worry about backups and whatnot. I seem to remember that some of these cloud providers have server farms on different sides of the world so that even if the bomb drops on one of them, your site will still be up.

That's the whole point of the Cloud - your content is distributed globally. Obviously, you pay more for this but if you have an app that takes off you need it so bnest to think about it now rather than later.

Edit: typo

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That is a very good point; hadn't thought of that. No need to worry about backups and whatnot. I seem to remember that some of these cloud providers have server farms on different sides of the world so that even if the bomb drops on one of them, your site will still be up.

Amazon have servers all over the planet so yes. There are some caveats though in that I don't think they give you failover between continents out of the box (think of the bandwidth implications for keeping everything synced up). For most small sites though, the stuff you get as part of the package within a single region will be more than adequate.

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1394210607[/url]' post='1102479697']

Hence why I tell people to use Wordpress as their frontend - you can get off the shelf Wordpress plugins that distribute your website to the likes of Akamai or Amazon - you have to pay them of course - but it is easy to do that then to do all the coding and managing yourself.

Ooh that's interesting. Any particular plugins you'd recommend?

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My company are loooking at Angular.js, a javascript framework written by Google, very powerful. I actually did a similar thing to you back in 2008 although paid someone else to code it. It fell apart because I was working full time and couldn't give it 100%. If you give up work then the money is unlikely to come in straight away. But mainly because it was so difficult to drive traffic to the site and Google adwords cost a fortune. I did get 120 people registered but didn't make a penny. I might revive it as nowadays if you can get some momentum it can quickly go viral.

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I know there's a few techies here so I figured this might be a good place to post this question.

I am a software developer by trade and have been working for about 7 years. During that time I've kind of been a jack of all trades but master of none, but this means I've gained a wider breadth of experience than many of my peers, so I see it as a good thing.

I've had an idea for a startup brewing over the past year; nothing too groundbreaking technologically (but then again, neither were Facebook or What'sApp), but I think I have a good way to package several things together in a way that would genuinely provide value to a certain kind of person. It would combine web front ends with IOS/Android apps.

I can visualize this whole product offering in my head, but I'm trying to make a decision what technology stack to use when developing it. I've been dissapointed at the seeming lack of technology-agnostic forums out there where software folk can discuss architecture - does anyone know of any?

In terms of front end I'd be using HTML5 obviously, and to save development time I'd probably try and make the IOS/Android apps just thin wrappers over more HTML5 stuff, with the native code being used to trigger any real time events that the app might need to take into consideration. I'd rather have apps written entirely for IOS/Android, especially since it means they would work offline, but I don't think I have the time to do this.

My two big questions come when it comes to data access stuff, and the issue of cloud computing.

In terms of data access, I've used ASP.net/C# before but wouldn't be looking to use this again.JS.

've heard that the kids nowadays are using Javascript for just about everything, so I've gotten myself a load of modern JavaScript tutorials and am looking into this. Any techies here care to share what technology stack they would use, or where I should go about researching such a thing?

The other issue is cloud based services, and when to use them. I'd consider what I'm offering to be a Software As A Service type thing, and one of the things that it would do is 'spawn' a few webpages for that user. But I could write one instance of the system that loads all that stuff from one database per user obviously - the question is when is it necessary to actually use these cloud services, or are you just overcomplicating things for no good reason?

All opinions appreciated, apologies if I've bored anyone to death here ;) If anyone can think of somewhere better for me to post this feel free to let me know :)

Look into titanium or phonegap for cross-platform web/mobile app development in html5/JS.

http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2012/05/comparing-titanium-and-phonegap/

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1394225267[/url]' post='1102479832']

My company are loooking at Angular.js, a javascript framework written by Google, very powerful. I actually did a similar thing to you back in 2008 although paid someone else to code it. It fell apart because I was working full time and couldn't give it 100%. If you give up work then the money is unlikely to come in straight away. But mainly because it was so difficult to drive traffic to the site and Google adwords cost a fortune. I did get 120 people registered but didn't make a penny. I might revive it as nowadays if you can get some momentum it can quickly go viral.

As you say, quitting a job for something like this is risky - i'd have no intention of quitting my job unless I was making loads off the site.

What drives me more is that I'd like to create something like this from scratch, something that I can call my own, and I think I'd be quite good at selling it to people. I don't expect to be able to quit my job, but if I could earn another 20k a year on top of my current wage that would be fantastic, and I'd gain a lot of satisfaction from having created something.

Thanks for the Angular.js recommendation; I'll check that out. And yes you should resurrect your old idea!

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