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Multi-Level Marketing Scam & Close Mate


mikthe20

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HOLA441

A few Christian friends of mine seem particularly prone to falling for this crap. Maybe it's because they believe in sky fairies and are also more gullible, but also I think it's because the scammers know how to play on their beliefs and values.

Most of it didn't even pass the 5 second sniff test, never mind warrant any further examination.

The telling thing to me was that most were living in social housing (due to other half being a key worker) and driving distinctly average cars.

It's essentially a from of evangelism

Having a trading floor in his bedroom must add thousands to the value of his house. I'm surprised estate agents haven't picked up on the potential of this feature.

House comes with 'Forex Trading Floor' would probably be estate agent speak for what's in reality a w@nking den.

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HOLA442

*shudders*

My dad had a mate who sold kleeneze and gawd knows what else. He was a bit of a del boy and would come up with parcels of tat for my dad to give his opinion on.

Laminated lamp shapes was one I remember really well. Really gawdy old scenes. Not sure he ever made his fortune.

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HOLA443

I have come across what is euphemistically called Network Marketing before. I was pitched to by a not very close friend. The amount of guilt and pressure the pitch generated in me switched on my inner sociologist/economist so I started doing some research; this was in the pre internet days. I am sorry, but I can't remember any of my sources but a process of cross checking at the time seemed to verify most of these findings. My findings also helped to explain my reaction to how I was being pitched to. I didn't sign up and I don't think they ever contacted me again. It all left a very bad taste in the mouth.

This is a summary of what I gleaned from information available to me at the time.

  • Network Marketing has all the traits of a cult.
  • It seems to prosper in economically challenging times.
  • It trades on peoples insecurities, avarice and feelings of 'being better than the average person'.
  • Like all pyramid schemes the early entrants do prosper but very few others will.
  • It should be made illegal but somehow seems to have slipped under most countries legislative radars.
  • It does seem to flourish amongst the God fearing.

To sum up, Network Marketing is 'evil' and should be avoided at all costs.

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HOLA444

I have come across what is euphemistically called Network Marketing before. I was pitched to by a not very close friend. The amount of guilt and pressure the pitch generated in me switched on my inner sociologist/economist so I started doing some research; this was in the pre internet days. I am sorry, but I can't remember any of my sources but a process of cross checking at the time seemed to verify most of these findings. My findings also helped to explain my reaction to how I was being pitched to. I didn't sign up and I don't think they ever contacted me again. It all left a very bad taste in the mouth.

This is a summary of what I gleaned from information available to me at the time.

  • Network Marketing has all the traits of a cult.

  • It seems to prosper in economically challenging times.

  • It trades on peoples insecurities, avarice and feelings of 'being better than the average person'.

  • Like all pyramid schemes the early entrants do prosper but very few others will.

  • It should be made illegal but somehow seems to have slipped under most countries legislative radars.

  • It does seem to flourish amongst the God fearing.

To sum up, Network Marketing is 'evil' and should be avoided at all costs.

I had a quick look at that Empower Network website referenced above and that list hits the spot, especially 1 and 3.

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HOLA445

My wife used to buy Ecover cleaning products in this way. Decent products, fitted a niche that wasn't widely available in the shops at the time. The process seemed entirely transactional and not a problem. She doesn't use it now as she isn't at the workplace where the girl/lady who supplied it works.

I don't know at all if it was a scam. If it was, it was the perfect scam because it didn't feel like one.

Interesting we use Ecover washing liquid for my daughters allergies, although we buy direct from Ocardo! That was quite possibility just a genuine alternative marketing route (cheaper than TV advertising), but it's a bit of a grey area isn't it. On another note my wife has been pitched a couple of beauty product things in the last year - I suspect housewives looking to earn a few quid with flexible hours might be susceptible to the MLM concept (well the morally ambiguous individuals at any rate...).

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HOLA446

I have come across what is euphemistically called Network Marketing before. I was pitched to by a not very close friend. The amount of guilt and pressure the pitch generated in me switched on my inner sociologist/economist so I started doing some research; this was in the pre internet days. I am sorry, but I can't remember any of my sources but a process of cross checking at the time seemed to verify most of these findings. My findings also helped to explain my reaction to how I was being pitched to. I didn't sign up and I don't think they ever contacted me again. It all left a very bad taste in the mouth.

This is a summary of what I gleaned from information available to me at the time.

  • Network Marketing has all the traits of a cult.

  • It seems to prosper in economically challenging times.

  • It trades on peoples insecurities, avarice and feelings of 'being better than the average person'.

  • Like all pyramid schemes the early entrants do prosper but very few others will.

  • It should be made illegal but somehow seems to have slipped under most countries legislative radars.

  • It does seem to flourish amongst the God fearing.

To sum up, Network Marketing is 'evil' and should be avoided at all costs.

Was this friend trying to sell you a house?

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HOLA447
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HOLA448

MLM people are very odd. I have a mate in Vegas who is running one and 2 years ago when he first started asked me to run the UK branch. I declined, stating it was an obvious pyramid scheme. He couldn't see it though and neither could those he was working with. they all had this over the top personality and truly believed they were doing Gods work, lifting people out of poverty and getting rich doing it. He still asks me if I would consider doing it from time to time, often bringing up the fact he has made $2 million after tax but to me it is dirty money. Even if there is a product involved it doesn't change the fact it is an unsustainable business model. I'm surprised his hasn't imploded yet actually. For anyone interested it is called the "Empower Network".

The Empower Network sales pitch is often unintentionally hilarious. It's in English, I guess, but reads as if it's been run back and forth through a translator until grammar, logic, and reality have been scraped away. Whoever wrote a lot of that stuff could easily get a job mixing word salads meant to bypass spam filters.

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HOLA449
Guest eight

I wish I had it in me to dupe people. I'm really serious. I see so many people who seem to have far more money than their meager talents can possibly justify. I'd love to sneakily separate them from it in an underhand manner and retire to Paraguay. But I'm just too honest.

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HOLA4410

The Empower Network sales pitch is often unintentionally hilarious. It's in English, I guess, but reads as if it's been run back and forth through a translator until grammar, logic, and reality have been scraped away. Whoever wrote a lot of that stuff could easily get a job mixing word salads meant to bypass spam filters.

I've just looked at their website. And I still have absolutely no idea about what they do or what they are or what they sell you. Can anyone who knows about these things explain it in a couple of sentences?

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HOLA4411

MLM is a form of creating an eventual passive income asset. The objective of MLM is it builds an increasing income so I don't need to physically go out to work to earn money. Remember an asset is something that puts money in your pocket each month/year, whereas a liability takes money away (Read Rich Dad Poor Dad). Yes, a house can be a LIABILITY! If it is cheaper to buy than rent, then I would consider it less of a liability than renting, you have to work it out yourself, the math. The house still doesn't put money in my pocket each month.

MLM may work for you, it may not. If you have the gift of the gab, are extroverted, charismatic, persuasive, are a people person, and have a 1000 friends on Facebook, 10,000 followers on Twitter, then you already have the basic tools to make MLM work quickly.

Slade gets £800K per year in royalities for their "Merry Xmas Everybody". That, is his passive income asset.

Work is needed initially, and then when you move up the chain, you work less. Of course this depends on how many people put in the work after you, and how robust the chain is - your income will cease, if the company goes bust. Counter party risk needs to be priced in if you want to join a MLM. Has anyone looked at the durability of MLM businesses?

stock-vector-multilevel-marketing-network-concept-with-human-figures-68998237.jpg

OK so you are introverted, and not a people person... MLM is not going to work for you.

So what other forms of income can you get that are passive, if you do not want to sell or close deals, in such a business?

*BTL (obvious one)

*Shares that pay an dividend income

*A book/podcast/film/app/game that you can sell over and over, or get royalties for

All of the above will require some work and research, which will er... hopefully pay dividends in the future (no pun intended!) Where you must, you must retain 100% control of the asset where possible or you will receive less income than you deserve; it will go to a middle man (read Felix Dennis' How to get Rich).

If I create an Ebook for 1 hour of my time, and it pays me £1 per month for the rest of my life, I can create 1000 ebooks and have £1000 per month, and so on. I have only one pair of hands, I can only work 8-12 hours a day, and so my income is relatively fixed. And when I go to work in a job I have 0% control of the asset, in fact I am improving the asset of the owner who lives thousands of miles away on some super yacht, sipping Bollingers! If you want to make money, you have to HATE POVERTY with every fibre of your body. Otherwise, go back to watching X-Factor and be a consumer rather than be a CREATOR.

You must plant the seeds, so the tree can grow and provide shelter later. May I refer to the Richest man in Babylon book.

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HOLA4412

I've just looked at their website. And I still have absolutely no idea about what they do or what they are or what they sell you. Can anyone who knows about these things explain it in a couple of sentences?

They're selling increasingly expensive training videos on how to be a salesman, along with a less than impressive blogging platform to spread the word. You make money by getting other people to buy these videos/web seminars (you "sponsor" them), which you're meant to buy for yourself first to generate a commission for your sponsor. You even have to pay a monthly fee for an e-wallet to access any commissions you may gather, which is a nice touch.

Some rare nuggets of honesty here, on a site otherwise full of fool's gold.

Most members of the Empower Network (or any other affiliate or network marketing program or opportunity, for that matter) make little to no money at all.

In addition, you should only invest money that you can afford to lose.

Consider the information presented within this site to be for entertainment and motivational purposes only.

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HOLA4413

MLM is a form of creating an eventual passive income asset. The objective of MLM is it builds an increasing income so I don't need to physically go out to work to earn money. Remember an asset is something that puts money in your pocket each month/year, whereas a liability takes money away (Read Rich Dad Poor Dad). Yes, a house can be a LIABILITY! If it is cheaper to buy than rent, then I would consider it less of a liability than renting, you have to work it out yourself, the math. The house still doesn't put money in my pocket each month.

MLM may work for you, it may not. If you have the gift of the gab, are extroverted, charismatic, persuasive, are a people person, and have a 1000 friends on Facebook, 10,000 followers on Twitter, then you already have the basic tools to make MLM work quickly.

Slade gets £800K per year in royalities for their "Merry Xmas Everybody". That, is his passive income asset.

Work is needed initially, and then when you move up the chain, you work less. Of course this depends on how many people put in the work after you, and how robust the chain is - your income will cease, if the company goes bust. Counter party risk needs to be priced in if you want to join a MLM. Has anyone looked at the durability of MLM businesses?

stock-vector-multilevel-marketing-network-concept-with-human-figures-68998237.jpg

OK so you are introverted, and not a people person... MLM is not going to work for you.

So what other forms of income can you get that are passive, if you do not want to sell or close deals, in such a business?

*BTL (obvious one)

*Shares that pay an dividend income

*A book/podcast/film/app/game that you can sell over and over, or get royalties for

All of the above will require some work and research, which will er... hopefully pay dividends in the future (no pun intended!) Where you must, you must retain 100% control of the asset where possible or you will receive less income than you deserve; it will go to a middle man (read Felix Dennis' How to get Rich).

If I create an Ebook for 1 hour of my time, and it pays me £1 per month for the rest of my life, I can create 1000 ebooks and have £1000 per month, and so on. I have only one pair of hands, I can only work 8-12 hours a day, and so my income is relatively fixed. And when I go to work in a job I have 0% control of the asset, in fact I am improving the asset of the owner who lives thousands of miles away on some super yacht, sipping Bollingers! If you want to make money, you have to HATE POVERTY with every fibre of your body. Otherwise, go back to watching X-Factor and be a consumer rather than be a CREATOR.

You must plant the seeds, so the tree can grow and provide shelter later. May I refer to the Richest man in Babylon book.

it mathematically cannot work for the majority...by the time its big with meetings in every town, its way too late...but the message remains the same.

Also, suppose the chain is 20 deep....all those levels are expecting a commission on the ultimate sale price....that means the product has to have very cheap manufacture ( some have none at all because they produce nothing) or a very high sales price.

As selling is the last thing on an MLMrs mind, the price is pitched as a function of commission...you earn 40% ( if you buy stock because you "earn" the bulk discount) providing you sell it on.

most dont.

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HOLA4414

I had a mate back in the early 90's get into this stuff in the UK - think it was Amway. I even went along to one of their big events with him down somewhere in Kent, I think it was. Very interesting day - organised much like a religous rally or cult event. Lots of group cheering and singling out of people as 'good' performers, including some redemption stories.

I declined his offer to join, as anyone with a basic understanding of maths or business models would. I think he dropped it quietly a few years later when he turned out not to be a millionare....

that said, less harmful than some cults, certainly. They will take all your money AND screw you up mentally. These guys just take all your money.

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HOLA4415
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HOLA4416
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HOLA4417
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HOLA4418
Guest TheBlueCat

My wife used to buy Ecover cleaning products in this way. Decent products, fitted a niche that wasn't widely available in the shops at the time. The process seemed entirely transactional and not a problem. She doesn't use it now as she isn't at the workplace where the girl/lady who supplied it works.

I don't know at all if it was a scam. If it was, it was the perfect scam because it didn't feel like one.

There's no reason it has to be a scam for the end purchaser. If the thing you're buying is what it says it is, you're not being put any undue pressure to but it and you're happy to pay the asking price, then there's clearly nothing wrong with that. I think it's the people doing the selling that mostly get shafted in these schemes.

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HOLA4419

I Know someone who joined Saladmaster, a multi-level marketing business where they sell cookware with absurd health claims and 4 figure price tag! I tried to warn him but it was difficult when he earned 14500 in 3 months.

now, business almost gone he tried going back to saudi to get more business and failed now he is moving his whole business to wolverhampton to try and find some mugs who will believe the claims and buy this cookware.

This business was wrong for him, though he earned a lot in the first year.

IMO everysale was dishourable as it came off the back of claims that were unproven, Doctor's enorsments that if read carefully revealed that actually the doctor was only thanking Saladmaster for giving $1 to the cancer project per order (0.05% at most)

Bottom line,

If this friend is close to you you should try had to keep him away from theses schemes

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HOLA4420

They're selling increasingly expensive training videos on how to be a salesman, along with a less than impressive blogging platform to spread the word. You make money by getting other people to buy these videos/web seminars (you "sponsor" them), which you're meant to buy for yourself first to generate a commission for your sponsor. You even have to pay a monthly fee for an e-wallet to access any commissions you may gather, which is a nice touch.

Thanks. I'd no idea what is was! Do the videos teach you how to sell other things as well? - or do they just teach you how to sell the training videos about how to be a salesman?

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HOLA4421

A few years ago some of my friends were talking about 'Circle of Friends' or some such 'gifting' scheme (it had hearts or clubs in the name/logo?). I managed to corner the girl who was responsible for getting them all revved up and ask her about the maths behind it but she just told me that I wouldn't understand the maths (she was implying it was complex and worked out by investment gurus!).

I managed to turn my mates off the idea, but it was scary how close some of them were to handing over ££££'s

just 12 levels of 5 sales needs the entire adult population of the UK

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HOLA4422

A few years ago some of my friends were talking about 'Circle of Friends' or some such 'gifting' scheme (it had hearts or clubs in the name/logo?). I managed to corner the girl who was responsible for getting them all revved up and ask her about the maths behind it but she just told me that I wouldn't understand the maths (she was implying it was complex and worked out by investment gurus!).

I managed to turn my mates off the idea, but it was scary how close some of them were to handing over ££££'s

I remember something along those lines that specifically targetted women - the pitch was "women helping women!", which was effective psychology.

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HOLA4423

Hmmm - can you work out exactly when the economy blows up as a result of fewer and fewer properties having an outstanding mortgage on them but the outstanding debt and the broader money supply rising and being placed on fewer and fewer shoulders?

And what street does he live in?

It could be YOU!

You gotta be init to winit!

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HOLA4424

Hmmm - can you work out exactly when the economy blows up as a result of fewer and fewer properties having an outstanding mortgage on them but the outstanding debt and the broader money supply rising and being placed on fewer and fewer shoulders?

And what street does he live in?

Looks like it.

It also amazes me when people perform vanity projects on houses that 5 miles down the road could be bought for little more than the cost of the vanity makeover. The essence of wealth is the more you spend (borrow) the richer you get.

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HOLA4425

Thanks. I'd no idea what is was! Do the videos teach you how to sell other things as well? - or do they just teach you how to sell the training videos about how to be a salesman?

Teaching you how to sell the videos. Utter scam, trust me, i knew the guys at the top. The two guys who founded it came across as absolute sociopaths when I talked to them. My mate fell into the Gullible Christian category described very well earlier in the thread. Difference is though he managed to get in on the first tier of the pyramid and thus made bank to the tune of $25K per week. I doubt some of those he recruited made more that $25 though.

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