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Zoked Out

Fortuna Estates - Pooled Investments In Spanish Commercial Land

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I used my housing deposit to invest in commercial land in Spain. Its with a company called Fortuna Estates, has anyone heard of them?

The whole concept is similar to what we try and do here where you can invest in land before planning permission and then sell at a higher rate than what you bought it for when planning permission is granted. But instead of investing in land where you do not know if planning permission will be granted or not, the land here is already zoned for commercial development and because of the housing development it is apparently easier and quicker to get planning. (3-4 years)

The company represents a development company that builds commercial infrastructure such as hotels, golf courses, shopping complexes etc.

What you do is buy a part of the land (from 1000 sqm increments ) Each time the company releases more land the price goes up. It could start off as small as 7.20euros per sqm. During this time they work with the local council to get planning permission for the land.

When they get planning permission, this is when the value of the land hikes up and causes banks and pension fund investors to now want to invest in the land. (they probably cannot invest without planning permission that is why they do not invest before). So the value of land could go up to 34 euros per sqm. You can choose to sell or wait until building has completed. Once it is completed and they have a buyer everybody will have to sell their share in the land because you cannot for example own part of a hotel, or part of a shopping complex.

I don't know yet if I invested wisely or not but I thought, hey let me give it a try. I am in profit now so i can sell my share in the land and be 7.5euros profit but I think I will wait.

Their previous project went from 6.80 euros per sqm to 37 euros per sqm in two years.

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Interesting. I had a look at Bella Fortuna, their first project, and the figures don't stack up. Their valuation puts the price of the plot as €15.5 million - which is frankly having a laugh. Who on earth is going to buy it? Until it's sold, any valuation they give are just numbers plucked out of the air. Value of rustic land in large amounts around Zafarraya is around €4 to €5, so they were expensive even from the outset. There is no way zoning the land as commercial in that area is going to increase the value by nearly ten times.

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I believe it to be a good investment, as I have bought shares in Bella as well as Sierra.

The valuation of 37.5 euros is after receiving full planning permission and has been carried out by an independent vauler.

All I can say is watch the space over the next 6 months.

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Was the valuer from Tinsa? Tecnitasa? One of the big banks?

I still can't see anyone paying 15 and a half million to buy land and a project for a hotel basically in the middle of nowhere. Can you?

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I still can't see anyone paying 15 and a half million to buy land and a project for a hotel basically in the middle of nowhere. Can you?

:huh:

Go and look at some of the Irish property threads for your answer. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I used my housing deposit to invest in commercial land in Spain. Its with a company called Fortuna Estates, has anyone heard of them?

The whole concept is similar to what we try and do here where you can invest in land before planning permission and then sell at a higher rate than what you bought it for when planning permission is granted. But instead of investing in land where you do not know if planning permission will be granted or not, the land here is already zoned for commercial development and because of the housing development it is apparently easier and quicker to get planning. (3-4 years)

The company represents a development company that builds commercial infrastructure such as hotels, golf courses, shopping complexes etc.

What you do is buy a part of the land (from 1000 sqm increments ) Each time the company releases more land the price goes up. It could start off as small as 7.20euros per sqm. During this time they work with the local council to get planning permission for the land.

When they get planning permission, this is when the value of the land hikes up and causes banks and pension fund investors to now want to invest in the land. (they probably cannot invest without planning permission that is why they do not invest before). So the value of land could go up to 34 euros per sqm. You can choose to sell or wait until building has completed. Once it is completed and they have a buyer everybody will have to sell their share in the land because you cannot for example own part of a hotel, or part of a shopping complex.

I don't know yet if I invested wisely or not but I thought, hey let me give it a try. I am in profit now so i can sell my share in the land and be 7.5euros profit but I think I will wait.

Their previous project went from 6.80 euros per sqm to 37 euros per sqm in two years.

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Zoked Out originally said "The company represents a development company that builds commercial infrastructure.......".

Er, I don't think so. Read the facts on their web site not the hyperbole.

Basically, they buy fields in the middle of nowhere and sell them on.

They started their first project three and a half years ago, and to date nothing has been built or even started.

As for valuations - meaningless; just figures plucked from thin air, as Bert said, to give 'investors' the impression their 'share' has gone up in value.

Scoons, you said watch this space ..... I'm still watching. Incidentally, did you give them power of attorney ?.

If not how, are they going to deal on behalf of hundreds of investors who are co-owners in the unlikely event they find a buyer ?.

Saw a big ad. for them in the Independent on Sunday this week, so obviously they think there are more naive punters out there.

Ask yourself this: how are they paying their staff and advertising/exhibition bills when the only cash generation is from people buying shares ?.

Anyone actually got out of this investment at a profit or even broken even ?.

What exactly is the exit stategy and do you as an individual have any control over that ?.

Property in prime coastal locations is proving difficult to shift in Spain at the moment, never mind remote spots like this.

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Well, Scoons and Zoked Out.

I've watched 'this space for 6 months' and.......... nada.

Fortuna's website seems to have disappeared, so did you make a profit or were you not even genuine posters, but pluggers ?.

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My apologies - the website has been renamed. However, it is now over 4 years since they started selling 'shares' in land and have yet to see a single brick laid. However, they are continuing to sell more and more tracts of land to willing investors on the vague promise of future development.

Those first investors will claim they have seen a rise in valuation, but you can't spend valuations, and they've had their money tied up for up to 4 years with no return, nor any immediate prospect of one.

Also, if there are an estimated 750,000 unsold new builds on the Spanish Costas (not to mention resales) who is going to be buying inland ?.

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The website has disappeared again, domain 'expired'. Has the company expired ?. Did anyone make a profit or has everyone lost their money ?.

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Apologies, their latest website is back up and running -

www.fortunaland.es

This really is one for the long haul; their first project was launched 5 years ago and has not yet been sold on to an end user, though the website says they are in 'discussions' with potential purchasers.

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Apologies, their latest website is back up and running -

www.fortunaland.es

This really is one for the long haul; their first project was launched 5 years ago and has not yet been sold on to an end user, though the website says they are in 'discussions' with potential purchasers.

One for the long haul? More like one for the scrapbook alongside other "land for sale" scams.

The only one making money from this is Fortuna. imilar schemes operate in the UK. Buy a field for buttons. Divide it up into "plots" and find enough rainbow chasers to buy them from you.

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marge,

If you read my previous comments you will appreciate that I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek. I'm just surprised they've lasted so long.

Have you checked out the website ?.

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marge,

If you read my previous comments you will appreciate that I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek. I'm just surprised they've lasted so long.

Have you checked out the website ?.

Yes, adding to your comment rather than taking it at face value. I did spot the tongue firmly planted in cheek.

They've lasted this long because there is an ever willing army of fools queueing up at various "property hotspots" around the world to hand their money over.

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An update for any who are interested.

It seems Fortuna Estates have passed the exit strategy to a company called Oanna Group - http://www.oannagroup.com

The first 2 projects, Bella Fortuna and Sierra Fortuna are to be turned into retirement homes as one project - http://oannagroup.com/content/16/Zafarraya_granada/

I am not an investor in either so I'm not privy to the financial details and timing of the exit strategy. Perhaps someone who did may shed some light on this.

I am an investor in Cazadores Reales and have been informed it will be another 12-14 months. The current valuation is €25 sq/m2. Taking the earlier point on valuations, it is apparently done by some pseudo-local government organisation in Andalucia so it is difficult to say how much to take from it.

From my discussions with Oanna they seem a lot better than Fortuna. They have some motivation in a successful exit strategy in that a lot of money will be generated and they will be looking to encourage reinvestment in all their other projects.

Oanna can be contacted through the Sales email address on their website

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So, 6 years after they started selling shares in their first field this is their latest proposal, is it ?. Initially, the sales pitch was that the site would be sold on to a developer. Then they were applying for pp to build a wedding chapel !?!. Last year it was a feasabilty study to decide if the site was suitable for alternative energy production. The web site promised an update by November last year. That is the most uptodate 'news' on their website (which makes no mention of Oanna or retirement homes). . Now, another feasability study into the possibility of building a retirement settlement of "up to" 140 homes; hardly enough to support the proposed medical centre and supermarket. Never mind, assuming you have a car and are still able to drive you will be able to avail yourself of all the facilities you would expect in the nearby 'town' of Zafarraya (pop. 2,400). Retirees like amenities, medical facilities on hand, infrastructure etc. Just how many people will want to buy a retirement home in the middle of nowhere with sweet f.a. to do ?. This is quite apart from the ludicrous prices they would have to achieve to justify the ridiculous valuations they put on these 'plots'. As I've said before, just how have they kept going for this long without selling anything -- other that bits of worthless land to the naive ?.

How are they still getting away with it ?.

(It is now quite obvious that the earlier posters Scoons & Zoked Out were plants; they haven't posted since January 2006.).

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I didn't look into the plans before but I suspect Oanna is creating a new project and may well be asking for more cash to build this old people's home.

The original investment was into land, so who cares what they do with it, it is who is buying it and for how much, which is the bit that is missing.

Fortuna seem to be winding down after they flogged the Miramonta trilogy which is for a formula one track and a hotel......that was a bit far fetched

My half share pales into insigificance to the shed load others have put in to all the projects. I suspect Scoons & Zoked Out were trying to make themselves feel better after doubts and some good points were made questioning it. Ramping it would not have made any money, all the shares had already been sold.

It is not a dead duck but it is looking fairly ugly. Much like recent investments in bank shares, inner city one bedroom but-to-lets, coastal properties in europe, there are no guarantees

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I'm new to this forum and have been reading through all the related threads over the past few days and only now I'm getting worried as a 'Fortuna Land' investor. Can anyone out there shed any light on the latest developments. There was an email sent out from Oanna last week detailing how a company called European Mediation Limited have set up a debt recovery business two months ago (in Bond Street, London and claim to be lawyers with partnership offices in Spain and Scandanavia). Oanna say that they will claim that you, as investors with Fortuna Land, have been scammed and that Fortuna Land secured planning permissions by bribing Spanish Authorities. Oanna go on to say that their intention is to upset you into thinking that your money is gone forever. You will then recieve an email 48 hours later demanding 10% of their legal costs up front. Oanna advise investors to PLEASE IGNORE THESE CHARACTERS AND THEIR FALSE CLAIMS. Needless to say this got the alarm bells ringing with me a little. Has anyone any thoughts or indeed has anyone tried to get their money back from Oanna as yet?

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Hello,

sorry to say that you can forget your investment. The land deals of FORTUNA (now Euroland, Blue Sky, OANNA SPAIN, Sol y Nieve, etc.) are not real. The land is worthless. You would not get one single Euro per square meter if you sell it!!!!!!!!!

The people behind these companies are playing with the investors. They may bring a project with a permission to build something on a piece of Land no were in the dessert.

All victims shut stay together inform the FSA and go to the police.

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For those of you who are interested.

I am new to this forum but as an investor in Miramontana Vista I have been following your comments with interest and share all your concerns. While I note Oannavictim’s comments I could do with seeing substance.

I went out to Spain last week to see Oanna to get a feel for who they are, what they are, what happened to Fortunaland and is it all a scam. It doesn’t feel like one.

Scammers don’t have an office where they can be tracked down. These guys do. The recent anti-corruption in property dealings called Operation Malaya around Marbella, conducted by the Policia Nacional, which put away over 100 corrupt Mayors and businessmen from the region, would most likely have scooped them up if there was any misbehaviour. It didn’t.

Their phone number is a static geographic one, not a non-geographic one that can be routed to alternative destinations if they had to duck and dive.

The phone number for Fortunaland was and is 0034-952-922-400. Oanna Group is 0034-952-922-422. Both are Direct Dial numbers in an ongoing ISDN30 based telephone system.

They have a decent office in Fuengirola, not a load of suspicious guys on the move with mobile numbers only. Fortunaland had a good formula but not the expertise and contacts to deliver the conversion. Oanna seem to have both. Unsubstantiated negative comments here can prejudice the negotiations with potential buyers if they look and as an investor I would prefer not to see them.

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Hello,

sorry to say that you can forget your investment. The land deals of FORTUNA (now Euroland, Blue Sky, OANNA SPAIN, Sol y Nieve, etc.) are not real. The land is worthless. You would not get one single Euro per square meter if you sell it!!!!!!!!!

The people behind these companies are playing with the investors. They may bring a project with a permission to build something on a piece of Land no were in the dessert.

All victims shut stay together inform the FSA and go to the police.

That's the last thing I'm going to do, forget about my investment. I and many others I know have a sizeable investment made and we are not going to just walk away. Whether the land is worthless or not, we invested in good faith and expect to be treated that way. I can assure you that my money is coming back in some shape or form and I will not rest until that happens. We invested into Cazadores and Mira Montana. Has anyone who invested in any of the earlier projects (in 2003/2004) had any success in getting money back given that they still have no planning (from what I can see).

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For those of you who are interested.

I am new to this forum but as an investor in Miramontana Vista I have been following your comments with interest and share all your concerns. While I note Oannavictim’s comments I could do with seeing substance.

I went out to Spain last week to see Oanna to get a feel for who they are, what they are, what happened to Fortunaland and is it all a scam. It doesn’t feel like one.

Scammers don’t have an office where they can be tracked down. These guys do. The recent anti-corruption in property dealings called Operation Malaya around Marbella, conducted by the Policia Nacional, which put away over 100 corrupt Mayors and businessmen from the region, would most likely have scooped them up if there was any misbehaviour. It didn’t.

Their phone number is a static geographic one, not a non-geographic one that can be routed to alternative destinations if they had to duck and dive.

The phone number for Fortunaland was and is 0034-952-922-400. Oanna Group is 0034-952-922-422. Both are Direct Dial numbers in an ongoing ISDN30 based telephone system.

They have a decent office in Fuengirola, not a load of suspicious guys on the move with mobile numbers only. Fortunaland had a good formula but not the expertise and contacts to deliver the conversion. Oanna seem to have both. Unsubstantiated negative comments here can prejudice the negotiations with potential buyers if they look and as an investor I would prefer not to see them.

Interesting first post from tsupert. One could be forgiven for thinking that perhaps he/she has some connection with Fortuna, who's website now merely directs people to the Oanna site. All a far cry from the vaguely promised developments of hotels, golf courses, shopping malls and hypermarkets etc. Fortuna were/are a registered Spanish company so do not come under FSA rules for collective investments, and the reason they haven't been "scooped up" is that they haven't actually committed a crime; they have certainly misled people, but what they actually did was to sell shares in plots of rustic land in the middle of nowhere on the basis they might at some unspecified time in the future be sold on to developers. Having an established office and a landline telephone number means nothing. What it does do is raise the question of how they have been paying their operating costs, when the only money coming in for the last 4 or 5 years has been from investors buying shares ?. Ask yourselves, investors, just where do you think your money has gone ?. Where they may have behaved illegally is that according to a recent poster on the Singing Pig forum the shares they sold weren't actually part of one big plot of land but a number of smaller ones, not even necessarilly adjacent.

So does anyone seriously think investors will see any of their original investment back never mind a positive return, at a time when there are a million unsold properties on the Costas and developrs are going under ?.

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