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Calling All Expat Hpc'ers.... Where Do You Live And What Are House Prices Like Where You Live?

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After reading this and having been around the world a bit. I find that all governments get a huge stiffy when their countries get stuck in a house price bubble, proud as punch with a 12 inch donger. They also see it as a form of GDP growth which gives them and even bigger stiffy to go showing off with. It also wins votes from the majority fk-wit voters. I havent seen this in any place worse than Australia where half the population walks round in a massive cloud of smug, absolutely brilliant they are with their astute house buying prowess, not just dumb luck.

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Dunno about purchase prices, but here in Istanbul we're renting a 90m2 apartment (2 bed) for about £600pm. Quite expensive by local standards as our neighbourhood (Cihangir) is hipster-central and popular with celebrities. Elsewhere in the city you can rent a reasonable 2 bed for less than £300, and other cities are much cheaper.

Think rent comparisons are quite a useful indicator. One of the reasons the French property market is showing signs of strain is that the ratio of annual rent to property prices is around 1:40. Factor in cost of maintenance and payment of both tax fonciere AND tax d'habitation and ownership begins to look ruinous.

Unless there are punitive rental laws or market support in place to push rents to an unaffordable level (as in the UK) then a permanent buyers strike is a realistic prospect.

For example, here are two properties in similar towns with similar proximity to beautiful coastline/a major city (Fougeres near Rennes vs. Chichester near Portsmouth):

http://www.ouestfrance-immo.com/immobilier/location/maison/fougeres-35-35115/7822951.htm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-42084424.html?showcase=true

Almost twice the living space for half the price in France. 650 Euro a month is affordable locally and peanuts for Rennes salary levels (direct rail connection and motorway links). I'd have balked at £1300 a month when I lived in the outskirts of London.

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Dunno about purchase prices, but here in Istanbul we're renting a 90m2 apartment (2 bed) for about £600pm. Quite expensive by local standards as our neighbourhood (Cihangir) is hipster-central and popular with celebrities. Elsewhere in the city you can rent a reasonable 2 bed for less than £300, and other cities are much cheaper.

How's the North Anatolian Fault doing?

Is the price of apartments in supposedly earthquake-proof buildings a lot higher than others?

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Another expat into the UK and I could afford to buy a house in London (albeit small but enough for the time being :) ) and think I would struggle now to buy in Melbourne. My friends live over an hour commute into Melbourne and pay AUD 500,000 for their homes. They have more space then we do but I'm just over 20 minutes into Victoria.

You will laugh at this but we are actually biding our time here trying to save as much as we can until we can afford to move back to Australia.

If you can go whenever you like then you can back when the exchange rates are favourable. If you can't then you have problems.

I know someone who sold in the UK in 2007 and moved to Australia - possibly the best time in the last 15 years with house prices here and exchange rates.

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One of the best threads on HPC for a while and an eye opener. Not sure what to make of it all. You move somewhere cheap and make yourself poor and unemployable (unless you can 'telecommute') or live in any City and all your outgoings go to a bank/rentier. Madness. Bring on glo-b-a-l HPC (won't happen of course). Think I'll stay in West Yorkshire, or move to Hungary or Sweden :lol:

I have a mate in Jamestown, Ohio (4 hours from NYC) and he's really poor, but owns his own house. Bought on student debt/load for a few thousand USD a few years ago.

Edited by aSecureTenant

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Geneva.

It's a world of it's own here - lots of funny money, lots of Russian "businessmen" with money buying and selling property.

Limited land available, usual VIs,

Prices vary a lot by area but are very very high in general - a 4-bed house in the worst areas of Geneva canton would set you back about a million GBP, in the best areas about 4-5 times that.

For those with a family who can afford it (I can't) it's probably cheaper if you can afford it to buy in a cheaper area which will be OK except for the schools and send the kids to private school. Let's say 2 kids - 10 years private education around 5-600k CHF, difference in property price a LOT more than that, several times more.

Something like this :-

http://www.homegate.ch/buy/104443230?a=default&l=default

Niceish house, will be decent build quality, quiet area with buses available into town, bit of airport noise but bearable where that is, plenty of decent infrastructure nearby etc. However the Vernier schools are bl*ody awful, you'd have to homeschool or go private or just not care.

About 10 times average salaries I should think for cheaper areas.

Rent is high as well, about 2000GBP a month for a three-bed apartment, much more in the best areas.

Edited by swissy_fit

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Singapore.

I relocated in November last year. Prices are insane, but people and the media deliberately talk of a price crash.

Rents are crazy too. I pay (not out of my own pocket though) circa 5500 SGD per month for a city centre flat, maybe 2600£.

Low tax and good salaries though

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If you can go whenever you like then you can back when the exchange rates are favourable. If you can't then you have problems.

I know someone who sold in the UK in 2007 and moved to Australia - possibly the best time in the last 15 years with house prices here and exchange rates.

What I'm worried is that if the AUD tanks it will cause even worse HPI just like London.

Australia has a stringent rule for non resident to purchase properties but it seems to have muted impact overall.

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Perth Australia

Property prices insane. I'm on a six figure salary even if I convert to Sterling and Id still have to borrow 6x my salary to get anything half decent. Renting for time being which takes up about 1/6th of my take home.

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How's the North Anatolian Fault doing?

Is the price of apartments in supposedly earthquake-proof buildings a lot higher than others?

It's going to do something at some point, which everyone knows. It's one argument against buying.

I dunno what the price effect is but it's definitely a factor that people consider when they're looking for an apartment so demand must be higher.

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Depressing thread.

I wonder if there is anywhere left that has reasonable salaries combined with affordable homes.

There doesn't even seem to be the option of cheap housing anymore - it seems anywhere there is money there are people ready to bid up the price of accommodation to hoover up the cash.

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I also live along the coast in the out-burbs of Melbourne. Expensive, but you also need one car per person and even taking a crap necessitates driving your car. Unlike where we lived in London, could actually do far more and for many years had no car. In the old days you could always say 'well living in oz is cheap' not any more, people don't even go to the pub any more, well not working people with mortgages, costs around 2x UK prices, and besides the pubs are not worth going in, just supermarket/betting shop type atmosphere with a bar in it.

Yes - Steve99 is100% correct. We also need 2 cars and almost everything is at a distance, it just takes way more time to go to places than the UK.

Don't get me started on the local supermarkets.........

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Singapore.

I relocated in November last year. Prices are insane, but people and the media deliberately talk of a price crash.

Rents are crazy too. I pay (not out of my own pocket though) circa 5500 SGD per month for a city centre flat, maybe 2600£.

Low tax and good salaries though

For some. ;)

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Since this is a forum on a website about high house prices, I doubt people living in countries with low or average house prices are going to post anything on here...

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One of the best threads on HPC for a while and an eye opener. Not sure what to make of it all. You move somewhere cheap and make yourself poor and unemployable (unless you can 'telecommute') or live in any City and all your outgoings go to a bank/rentier. Madness. Bring on glo-b-a-l HPC (won't happen of course). Think I'll stay in West Yorkshire, or move to Hungary or Sweden laugh.gif

I have a mate in Jamestown, Ohio (4 hours from NYC) and he's really poor, but owns his own house. Bought on student debt/load for a few thousand USD a few years ago.

How about Save Hard (including renting less than you can afford), Invest Wisely and Retire in 10 years? Then move somewhere cheap, buy and live happily ever after. 7 years since I joined this site and started doing exactly that. Only 3 years to go at current run rate.

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I moved to central Paris originally where prices are high, but not as bubbly as London. In the arrondissement I lived, according to meilleursagents, average price is 9000 euros / m2 (highest prices 12000/m2 and lowest 8000/m2) which seems to tally with prices in the estate agents' windows. I then moved to the south-west where you could get easily buy a half decent house (not a renovation job) for 50,000 euros. 100,000 euros will get you a lot, and anything over 200,000 euros would probably cover most peoples' dreams, but these prices are usually in fairly impoverished areas. The areas and houses are beautiful on the whole, people are generally very friendly, but employment is a big issue, and those who can't get jobs in the towns or cities are usually in farming, but would be better off living on the welfare system for the money they make in a year. It's no wonder so many work on the black.

Edited by You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet

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I used to live in Sweden (Gothenburg) before moving to London. I was able to buy a decent 1 bedroom flat for around 100,000€ with a relatively modest salary, i.e around 2000€/month 2 years after I started working. This was 8 years ago though. Flats in Sweden now seem rather expensive compared to before as well but for me the biggest shock when coming to London was rather the appaling quality rather than prices, with a lot of places having no proper insulation, being tiny/unpractical, damp problems etc, things I've never seen anywhere in Sweden. Almost all flats in Sweden also have separate basement storage and even usually the small flats are quite well planned, unlike the tiny 2 bed 50sqm flats with 2 bathrooms here. Even lot of the new builds have a very cheap feel and look like they'll fall apart in 10 years time.

I love London for a lot of reasons but housing value for money is so bad here compared to anywhere else I've lived in.

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Closer to home, I don't know how Jersey in the Channel Islands keeps going.

Not some, but all of my friends children I keep in contact with have left. There used to be a state scheme to help youngsters, this is now no longer available.

Talking to my sister the other night it seems her eldest 2 boys are planning to go. Unless you a a lone child who will inherit there is no hope.

Dentists, doctors, accountants, advocates, along with bankers is all very well, but society does need artisans as well.

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Norway, on the West Coast.

I paid 2.8 million NOK for a 91 sq. m. apartment with 2 bedrooms. About 4 times salary. So that's about £265k now, £320k at the time - the krone has tanked against the pound.

The most interesting point about Norway is that you can deduct debt interest from your gross income before tax is calculated.

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Before returning to the UK I lived in Tunisia for a few years.

Tunis prices = The main reason for the Arab Spring IMHO

crap area 80-100,000 dinars an apartment approx 30/40k£

medium/good area 150-200,000 74k£

Good area which would be the only one to consider for expat 250,000-400,000+ 100/120k£

Houses double + those figures.

The best areas like Carthage/la marsa/Sidi bousaid/amilcar/berges du lac/mount pleasant etc (in-fact most half decent areas) have majority houses over 1 million dinars (400k£) +

Now that looks reasonable from here but there are literally no jobs outside the good areas....none

Average salary outside tunis/crap parts of tunis 500-700 dinars per month (250/300 £) and your a company director on anything over 2000 dinars per month (700/900 £)

So say your a big shot on 5000 dinars a month (1900 £ pm or £20-25k £) an average flat in a decent area of Tunis is over 10 times you average salary and a house 20 times.

To add you also looking at concrete boxes not expensive european builds with regulations etc etc. Built by guys wearing flip flops with no health and safety/planning overheads etc. Buy your land and build your house!

These poor guys had a revolution and ..... prices have only sputtered rather than fallen and a recent proposal to levy a land tax on second homes was quietly dismissed...good old vi's even after a revolution and deaths they put their needs before everyone.

Consider this

20% of new property in Tunis is empty

you can only really get a 70% LTV mortgage over 20 years at the bank

The rates are quite high

Unemployment is well over 10%, there was a revolution a few years ago and the economy is still recovering/faltering.

I only know one person over 8000 dinars a month..... and he cannot afford a small house next to his mum and dad who get paid 1/4 of this.

Imagine the London scenario but a whole country nobody local can afford anything....

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I live the Gaza Strip. Prices are rocketing.

You know you jest but from what I hear it has very expensive land prices. Even with the potential of a bomb falling on your head any night.

I saw a documentary about Syrian refugees staying in Lebanon and they where paying 200 dollars a month for a s hole in a border dump!

The middle east/arab countries are the epicentre of HPI they make the UK look cheap by comparisonl

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Regarding Norway and the Krone....seems to me that there has been a re-evaluation of some of the currencies of the world's most successful economies, Switzerland and Japan comes to mind. More a case of their currencies correcting from the stratosphere than any success of UK plc.

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Living in Gurgaon, Haryana, India. About 35k's South East of Delhi. Work means I'm here with my family. Property prices here are completely insane. A new 5k sq ft apartment will cost around 1 to 3.5m gbp. Monthly rentals are from 2-7k gbp per month. Key determinant is where the apartment is and who built it. A DLF built property (next to Gurgaon DLF golf club) will cost the upper end and the finish is ok. Key thing is the anticipated life of the flat is around 30-35 years. Often flats have to be completely refurbished inside and out after only 5 years due to the impact of climate and shoddy materials and finishing. A normal flat will cost 10cr. (100m inr or 1m gbp) and it won't be any great quality or size.

As for wage multiples. Don't even go there. It makes no sense. All that is happening is that gigantic amounts of black money is being laundered by individuals that make the Wilsons look like complete amateurs. I'd say wages of good professional trades are approx. 30-40% of those in the UK... look at the cost of accommodation and do the math.

Makes the UK (excl London) seem very cheap and hence its no surprise so much money is heading to the UK to buy property there. Bargain compared to here.

I didn't cover Delhi and Mumbai here. Prices are even more extreme there. Gurgaon is crazy enough on its own.

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  • 333 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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