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Mark Uttley

Turin Shroud Is Genuine

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2556939/Did-earthquake-Old-Jerusalem-cause-Shroud-Turin-dated-incorrectly.html' rel="external nofollow">

Scientists claim Turin Shroud is Real

Radiation from an earthquake may be responsible for the mysterious Turin Shroud image many believe to be a depiction of Jesus Christ, scientists claim.

Why didn't I think of that? There must be thousands of documented cases of earthquakes producing images on bed sheets etc.....

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Amazing to me that after 2,100 years, the piece of cloth hasn't completely disintegrated. That's the miracle.

Especially as the pockets on a Next suit start to fray after 3 weeks

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Amazing to me that after 2,100 years, the piece of cloth hasn't completely disintegrated. That's the miracle.

+1

Just as amazing as collagen and DNA surviving after 4,500 years.

As for lasting 65 million years, forget it.

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It might not be a sign but it's a negative image that's at least 700 years old which a lot of very clever people have (so far) been unable to account for.

edit: slightly OT but this is my favourite (seemingly?) anachronistic head-scratcher - Antikythera mechanism

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Surely it's just the imprint of whatever was used to embalm the body?

A Goth style duvet cover?

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It might not be a sign but it's a negative image that's at least 700 years old which a lot of very clever people have (so far) been unable to account for.

edit: slightly OT but this is my favourite (seemingly?) anachronistic head-scratcher - Antikythera mechanism

Yes, a fascinating thing. But only an anachronistic head-scratcher if you subscribe to the view that humanity only discovered complex astronomical mathematics in the last few hundred years - have a look at some of the incredible astronimical knowledge contained within the measurements and orientation of ancient structures like the Great Pyramid or Machu Pichu (but take your pic from any of a number across the globe though really)... The ancients knew a lot more than we tend to give them credit for. How they cut those huge stone blocks in weird and wonderful asymmetric shapes and fitted them together so you can't get a fag paper between them is far more of a mystery than some dirty old sheet ;)

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Yes, a fascinating thing. But only an anachronistic head-scratcher if you subscribe to the view that humanity only discovered complex astronomical mathematics in the last few hundred years - have a look at some of the incredible astronimical knowledge contained within the measurements and orientation of ancient structures like the Great Pyramid or Machu Pichu (but take your pic from any of a number across the globe though really)... The ancients knew a lot more than we tend to give them credit for. How they cut those huge stone blocks in weird and wonderful asymmetric shapes and fitted them together so you can't get a fag paper between them is far more of a mystery than some dirty old sheet ;)

That old sheet appears to be a medieval 'photograph' of a fake Jesus. Even if someone were to, understandably, discard the Jesus part there's still the medieval photograph part.

As for that 2,000 year old astronomical computer, yes, the astronomical knowledge required to build it is impressive, as is the fact that it's a, um, computer. Which kind of pops into the historical record and then pops out again. The history of the development of skills and learning that lead to its creation is (largely) lost to us.

Here's another. Not a puzzling technological feat like the stuff you mention but at c.11,000+ years old it pre-dates the Pyramids by 7-8,000 years and was built (and later deliberately buried) thousands of years before 'civilisation' supposedly started...

Gobekli Tepe

I love the cute little recreation in that article, which has the builders exuding a beardie caveman vibe. Got to stick with the orthodox chronology and all...

1zyhb1x.jpg

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It might not be a sign but it's a negative image that's at least 700 years old which a lot of very clever people have (so far) been unable to account for.

edit: slightly OT but this is my favourite (seemingly?) anachronistic head-scratcher - Antikythera mechanism

Um... its just a painted image FFS and its been very easily accounted for..... its a painted image on a piece of cloth. There. Accounted for.

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Um... its just a painted image FFS and its been very easily accounted for..... its a painted image on a piece of cloth. There. Accounted for.

A FFS surely merits at least one link or explanation as to how it was done? It's not as if there are many other artefacts that resemble it knocking about.

The proportions of the figure (the length of its arms for instance) suggest that, yes, it was a painting or an imprint of a carving, rather than a contact print of a real person smothered in some kind of goo.

However, if it is a straightforward painting, someone should have definitely demonstrated that by now, no?

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A FFS surely merits at least one link or explanation as to how it was done? It's not as if there are many other artefacts that resemble it knocking about.

The proportions of the figure (the length of its arms for instance) suggest that, yes, it was a painting or an imprint of a carving, rather than a contact print of a real person smothered in some kind of goo.

However, if it is a straightforward painting, someone should have definitely demonstrated that by now, no?

It was painted. Although the concept of painting should be self-evident, someone even painted a reproduction

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/05/us-italy-shroud-idUSTRE5943HL20091005

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It was painted. Although the concept of painting should be self-evident, someone even painted a reproduction

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/05/us-italy-shroud-idUSTRE5943HL20091005

That would be the 'contact print' (as opposed to a painting - as in an artistic representation of a real object) of a bloke smeared in goo I already mentioned.

I don't doubt that the image was made by a person. I lack the confidence that others seem to have as to how it was made.

That image does resemble the shroud, at least superficially, but I have no idea if scientific analysis of the replica (the nature of the staining, image analysis) confirms that it is the same as the shroud. I remember that replica being reported a few years ago but I haven't seen the results of any follow up review/analysis. Linky?

edit: I found a 2010 paper here. It concludes that key features of the Turin Shroud were not reproduced. I'd be genuinely interested to see any papers with contradictory conclusions.

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That would be the 'contact print' (as opposed to a painting - as in an artistic representation of a real object) of a bloke smeared in goo I already mentioned.

I don't doubt that the image was made by a person. I lack the confidence that others seem to have as to how it was made.

That image does resemble the shroud, at least superficially, but I have no idea if scientific analysis of the replica (the nature of the staining, image analysis) confirms that it is the same as the shroud. I remember that replica being reported a few years ago but I haven't seen the results of any follow up review/analysis. Linky?

Of course its not the same as the shroud. That would take 700 years of aging. Seriously Nuggets, its a painting. If this was any other painting on any other piece of linen then no one would bat an eyelid. But because of a whole lot of people who sign up to the creation myth of a bronze aged tribe of sheep farmers, its suddenly necessary to satisfy an unachievable burden of proof to show it isn't something supernatural.

Frankly its ridiculous. Not even the Vatican pretend its real anymore.The only thing remarkable about the shroud is how many people think its remarkable.

Its a painting. And not a very good one at that.

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Of course its not the same as the shroud. That would take 700 years of aging. Seriously Nuggets, its a painting. If this was any other painting on any other piece of linen then no one would bat an eyelid. But because of a whole lot of people who sign up to the creation myth of a bronze aged tribe of sheep farmers, its suddenly necessary to satisfy an unachievable burden of proof to show it isn't something supernatural.

Frankly its ridiculous. Not even the Vatican pretend its real anymore.The only thing remarkable about the shroud is how many people think its remarkable.

Its a painting. And not a very good one at that.

Afaic, it has at least some characteristics of a photograph and interesting to me because, if so, it would be cause to reappraise history a little. Not a million miles away from what these guys are suggesting...

wiki: Hockney–Falco thesis

The Hockney–Falco thesis is a controversial theory of art history, advanced by artist David Hockney and physicist Charles M. Falco, suggesting that advances in realism and accuracy in the history of Western art since the Renaissance were primarily the result of optical aids such as the camera obscura, camera lucida, and curved mirrors, rather than solely due the development of artistic technique and skill.

Another reason why I find it interesting is that because Jesus and apparent irrationality are involved there's a strong urge in some to declare 'nothing to see here, move on' and chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

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That old sheet appears to be a medieval 'photograph' of a fake Jesus. Even if someone were to, understandably, discard the Jesus part there's still the medieval photograph part.

As for that 2,000 year old astronomical computer, yes, the astronomical knowledge required to build it is impressive, as is the fact that it's a, um, computer. Which kind of pops into the historical record and then pops out again. The history of the development of skills and learning that lead to its creation is (largely) lost to us.

Here's another. Not a puzzling technological feat like the stuff you mention but at c.11,000+ years old it pre-dates the Pyramids by 7-8,000 years and was built (and later deliberately buried) thousands of years before 'civilisation' supposedly started...

The pyramids which so far no one has offered a reasonable explanation about how they were built and with such accuracy from a people that didn't have advanced maths and yet advanced maths feature in the dimensions.

Lots of information about our past has been lost, but all the text books are accurate and anomalies like maths should just be ignored because it was all the Greeks that founded advanced maths.

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