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TheBlueCat

Swiss People Vote Against Freedom Of Movement

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597

This is interesting. A few obvious points:

- will the Swiss government abide by the decision or just ignore it/finesse it away?

- what will the EU actually do assuming they do stick with it?

- what are the implications for the leave/stay argument in the UK?

My take is that the most likely outcome is that the Swiss government will change the rules very slightly so as to notionally abide by the vote but not so much as to make the EU feel like it has to do anything. Failing that, they'll make people keep voting until the EU gets the answer it wants.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597

This is interesting. A few obvious points:

- will the Swiss government abide by the decision or just ignore it/finesse it away?

- what will the EU actually do assuming they do stick with it?

- what are the implications for the leave/stay argument in the UK?

My take is that the most likely outcome is that the Swiss government will change the rules very slightly so as to notionally abide by the vote but not so much as to make the EU feel like it has to do anything. Failing that, they'll make people keep voting until the EU gets the answer it wants.

this thread title is slightly misleading.

the headline acually says, 50.3% of swiss back immigration quotas.

and this is coming from a country where they DO have direct democracy, and it is mandatory for the menfolk of the household to brandish a firearm( not even those now illegal nerf-guns in the uk on health and safety grounds)..and foreign affairs are decided by referenda.

...actually that is supposed to be OUR system of governance near enough...up until ww2 it was pretty much written in stone you had the right to means of self defence for your family...and occsionally your country..

farage is right.

at the age of 7 I was in cubs, and school, and there were quite a few of us sporting the latest swiss army knives-yes they did get taken to school on a daily basis!!!...clipped onto a trouser belt fitting so quite open-carry too(without issue)......Modern teachers would have a proper hissy-fit about it.

.(they were kind of a fashion statement back in the day, but being in the "scouting" fraternity we actually would make use of them.)

at the age of 10 I was doing archery, and quite handy with both longbow and crossbow

at the age of 14 I was in my school CCF doing rifle shooting.

(as a kid I was very much an outdoor pursuits sort, not quite end-of days prepper....that came later! :P )

I don't have a problem with firearms,they are like any other tool...and sometimes they ARE necessary.(and yes that does extend to occasional forcible removal of elements of civic/judiciary/government that have been overstepping their mandate, or found to be beholden to foreign entities hostile to our culture)

if you are trained to use them properly

...cars are potentially lethal if the wrong person is behind the wheel, but most people are adult enough to use responsibly.

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this thread title is slightly misleading.

the headline acually says, 50.3% of swiss back immigration quotas.

I didn't think it was misleading - at least I didn't intent to mislead. Quotas imply the loss of freedom of movement. Depends on how you define freedom I guess.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597

Failing that, they'll make people keep voting until the EU gets the answer it wants.

Well you are correct in that there will be more votes (I believe there is a vote later this year initiated by the Greens to only allow the population grow through immigration by a small percentage this year (this includes world wide immigration not just EU). It is interesting that the UK press paint this as a right wing SVP thing, the Greens and many grass roots socialists are also opposed to more immigration (though in the Greens case they claim it is for environmental reasons).

If it is just implemented in a way that makes no practical difference to immigration then there will just be the collection of another 100,000 signatures, and an even more tightly defined vote to make sure it does get implemented correctly.

I would say the trend is for Switzerland to be more and more anti EU (good!! almost every country is the EU is going backwards, 100 years some of countries ruled the world, now they just gather together to try to kick much smaller Switzerland).

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I didn't think it was misleading - at least I didn't intent to mislead. Quotas imply the loss of freedom of movement. Depends on how you define freedom I guess.

I suspect the Swiss voters don't really feel that they will lose much themselves in the way of freedom of movement.

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With these referendums now, over 20% of Switzerland is foreign.

What I would like to know is what exactly are the results for the real Swiss population?

You can't vote unless you have a passport. You have to be in Switzerland for 10-12 years before getting a passport, and you are not automatically given one even if you do fit the criteria.

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Well you are correct in that there will be more votes (I believe there is a vote later this year initiated by the Greens to only allow the population grow through immigration by a small percentage this year (this includes world wide immigration not just EU). It is interesting that the UK press paint this as a right wing SVP thing, the Greens and many grass roots socialists are also opposed to more immigration (though in the Greens case they claim it is for environmental reasons).

If it is just implemented in a way that makes no practical difference to immigration then there will just be the collection of another 100,000 signatures, and an even more tightly defined vote to make sure it does get implemented correctly.

I would say the trend is for Switzerland to be more and more anti EU (good!! almost every country is the EU is going backwards, 100 years some of countries ruled the world, now they just gather together to try to kick much smaller Switzerland).

they seem to misunderstand that there is a two pronged attack happening right now.

the marxists use IUD's, the islamists use IED's

remember gadaffi and arafat both alluded to demographics being a "weapon of choice"(funnily enough, the ballot and the bullet were also IRA tactics)..i guess the big man upstairs is watching all the plotting and scheming becuse both of them met rather grizzly ends.

coupled with marxist anti-family statism(and if the truth be known there is yet another layer of the onion beneath them).

ie we are quite likely to see facism re-emerge in continental europe as a counterweight to communism.

if we are lucky, russia will see sense and stop backing the islamists, knowing full well that even communism will be tretaed as "infidel" by the fanatics.....plus russia would have a lot to lose being sandwiched between a fascist fourth reich, and a hyper state-capitalist china.

better to let them have their own "reformation" and 30 years war between the royalty and the finger-wagging clerics, without dragging the rest of us into it.

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You can't vote unless you have a passport. You have to be in Switzerland for 10-12 years before getting a passport, and you are not automatically given one even if you do fit the criteria.

That seems more than fair...... And I'm a foreigner (Irish) here. A 5 year residency requirement demeans and devalues citizenship & nationality.

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You can't vote unless you have a passport. You have to be in Switzerland for 10-12 years before getting a passport, and you are not automatically given one even if you do fit the criteria.

is that really such a bad thing?

I think either 5 year or 10 year probation for new entrants to the country, irrespective of where they come from is totally reasonable.

say remission of right to abode if found guilty of criminal offence of sentence carrying 2 year or more penalty during that period.(or multiple conviction of minor offence- 3 strikes and out...during said period.)

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You can't vote unless you have a passport. You have to be in Switzerland for 10-12 years before getting a passport, and you are not automatically given one even if you do fit the criteria.

I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it. I live in Switzerland and am quite happy with this. Careless Whisper was wondering what the vote percentage would be if foreigners were excluded from the vote. I was just pointing out that most of them were excluded.

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The Swiss state should be concerned with the freedom of the Swiss to do what they want, not the freedom of everybody on planet Earth. Thats why it is the Swiss state rather than the World Government.

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I suspect the Swiss voters don't really feel that they will lose much themselves in the way of freedom of movement.

That's another interesting question - if they go ahead with this then I assume that the least the EU will do in retalisation is to remove freedom of movement rights from the Swiss. It won't happen though, they'll just be told to keep voting until they get the right answer.

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That's another interesting question - if they go ahead with this then I assume that the least the EU will do in retalisation is to remove freedom of movement rights from the Swiss. It won't happen though, they'll just be told to keep voting until they get the right answer.

You might be right about the acceptability of the answer, but I guess Swiss people realise this and many of them may not be too bothered about emigration from prosperous Switzerland being made more difficult.

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The EU lot really dont do PR. They had a segment on bbc look east the other night telling us how wonderful mass immigration is and how the brits are fools for wanting caps. So who did the EU quango get to tell the brits this? A Spaniard!

Couldnt make it up. That'll go down well in convincing Brits theyre not being taken over by foreigners. How hard can it be to find a British spokesperson? Obviously a bit too hard if youre the EU.

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I didn't think it was misleading - at least I didn't intent to mislead. Quotas imply the loss of freedom of movement. Depends on how you define freedom I guess.

Indeed - you may regret your loss of freedom to move to my country, but I am more concerned with my freedom not to have to put up with you in my country.

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You might be right about the acceptability of the answer, but I guess Swiss people realise this and many of them may not be too bothered about emigration from prosperous Switzerland being made more difficult.

Much of what made Switzerland so prosperous - the private banking system and secrecy for its customers - is under attack or has already been compromised. As a result, things might not be so rosy a decade or two down the line and the country is small, mountainous and landlocked within the EU. It may be a bigger deal in the not too distant future if the people cannot easily live and work in adjoining EU countries.

However, I can't blame them for wanting restrictions on immigration. There are a massive amount of foreigners in the country and it has caused all sorts of problems from housing availability to crime. At least their direct democracy gives them the choice to have votes like this.

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I suspect it was swayed by the prospect of the entire combined workforces of RBS, HBOS, Barclays and HSBC decamping there in the wake of a Labour victory in 2015 and 50% higher rate tax..

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Well you are correct in that there will be more votes (I believe there is a vote later this year initiated by the Greens to only allow the population grow through immigration by a small percentage this year (this includes world wide immigration not just EU). It is interesting that the UK press paint this as a right wing SVP thing, the Greens and many grass roots socialists are also opposed to more immigration (though in the Greens case they claim it is for environmental reasons).

but the hardline communist think it's perfectly acceptable to concrete over everything,we are all part of the same family after all...and we can fit everybody on the planet onto the isle of wight, no problem.

...they seem to forget that both fascist and communist mentality is basically "production line" humans, with a few farmers plying them with steroids and whatever crap they can cook up to put in the food and water supply to keep them fat and docile ready for slaughter.

..animals aren't that keen on living in battery farms either I bet.

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That's another interesting question - if they go ahead with this then I assume that the least the EU will do in retalisation is to remove freedom of movement rights from the Swiss. It won't happen though, they'll just be told to keep voting until they get the right answer.

knowing how infantile they are they will throw their toys out of the pram because they didn't get eveything their own way and they don't get to play with all the toys in the playpen.

one small point though.

germany pretty much ignores a lot of EU law.

even to stuff like supposedly EU wide public advertising bans on cigarettes.(yes you can still smoke in quite a few bars there, and the adverts are on hoardings in train and bus stations..so it's not totally EU wide as we have been hoodwinked by the politicians......we have our own politicians to blam for that and they are following an agenda).

maybe (just maybe)germany is smart enough to see fascism rearing it's ugly head again, and NEVER again go down that route.

..if they did, or were found to be aiding and abetting it, they would get absolutely blown to bits by the US and the russians.

...absolutely NONE would be left alive.

it wouldn't be a multi-front war/goose chase...it would be concentrated firepower on one country alone...to turn it into a charcoal briquette..period.

I hope for all our sakes that whoever has been running germany decides it's in everybody's interests to run away from EU commission and form an alternative northern bloc....of which they will take one of the leading roles ...but not dominate.

best option now really is AfD, along with some other conservative northern coutries.

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