Damik Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Any evidence for that claim? I am sure that all these 28 or something EU countries got somehow secretly together to overthrown the Yanukovich; some kind of EU secret agents aka 007. Driven by some secret NeoNazis. I am sure their Fuhrer is Merkel, 100% ... When even Putin stated that: "I think he has no political future – I told him that. As for playing a role in his fate, we did that purely from humanitarian reasons," Putin said of Yanukovych Edited May 15, 2014 by Damik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I am sure that all these 28 or something EU countries got somehow secretly together and overthrown the Yanukovich; some kind of EU secret agents aka 007. Driven by some secret NeoNazis. I am sure their Fuhrer is Merkel, 100% ... I can't believe you think it's true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Time for someone to pay up. The EU/US perhaps? Starting from June 1, Russian gas will only be delivered to Ukraine if it pays for it in advance, said President Vladimir Putin. http://rt.com/business/159200-ukraine-gas-russia-payment/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Kurt, What happens if the Ukranians cut off the 4 gas pipelines that pass through their territory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsino Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Kurt, What happens if the Ukranians cut off the 4 gas pipelines that pass through their territory? One estimate of a Russian oil/gas embargo is that it would cut German GDP growth by 0.9% this year and 0.3% next year, not to mention other EU members. Obviously it would be cheaper for the EU to pay off Ukraine's gas bill and subsidise their imports. Heads Russia wins; tails the EU loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Any evidence for that claim? Well, for a start, the leaked telephone call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt, in which they discuss, aomh other things, their personnel preferences for the new regime post-Yanukovic. Then there is Victoria Nuland's own admission that $5 billion had been spent on fomenting unrest in the ukraine. Then there is a whole long list of governments overthrown by the US/Uk, including Iran (1953), Chile (1973) and so forth. Are you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Well, for a start, the leaked telephone call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt, in which they discuss, aomh other things, their personnel preferences for the new regime post-Yanukovic. It would be remarkable if a country's ambassador and foreign ministers did not discuss such a thing. Then there is Victoria Nuland's own admission that $5 billion had been spent on fomenting unrest in the ukraine. Source for that claim (not RT derived please). Then there is a whole long list of governments overthrown by the US/Uk, including Iran (1953), Chile (1973) and so forth 60 and 40 years ago respectively, neither of which provides any support for your cliam. Are you serious? Not really, but then I'm not paid to spam forums with government propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Any evidence for that claim? "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals". Victoria Nuland, Dec 13 2013. No link for you goaty, have a go at finding it yourself by putting a little effort in to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 "We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals". Victoria Nuland, Dec 13 2013. No link for you goaty, have a go at finding it yourself by putting a little effort in to it. Thanks, that quote in full: "Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals." So what you have there is a perfectly reasonable statement about supporting democracy over a period of 25 years edited and recycled to pretend that it was an admission that the US government was attempting to overthrow the Ukraine government. A classic example of propaganda in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 And for the payback...the incumbent vice presidents son gets a top job in the premier Ukraine energy company. revolving doors, corruption, theft, nepotism...its everywhere. "our" side, "their" side, these people are in the game for the power. I question why $5bn was needed from the US....indeed, one has to question what any foreign aid is used for and what favours are required to get it...wasnt it £100k we gave to China at their Olympics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tio Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 7 minutes 40 seconds ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=861DJLR4CekCovert United States foreign regime change actionshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions 1 Prior to Cold War 1.1 Russia 2 During the Cold War 2.1 Communist states 1944–89 2.2 Syria 1949 2.3 Iran 1953 2.4 Guatemala 1954 2.5 Tibet 1955–70s 2.6 Indonesia 1958 2.7 Cuba 1959 2.8 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960–65 2.9 Iraq 1960–63 2.10 Dominican Republic 1961 2.11 South Vietnam 1963 2.12 Brazil 1964 2.13 Ghana 1966 2.14 Chile 1970–73 2.15 Argentina 1976 2.16 Afghanistan 1979–89 2.17 Turkey 1980 2.18 Poland 1980–81 2.19 Nicaragua 1981–90 2.19.1 Destablization through CIA assets 2.19.2 Arming the Contras 2.20 Cambodia 1980–95 2.21 Angola 1980s 3 Since the end of the Cold War 3.1 Iraq 1992–96 3.2 Afghanistan 2001 3.3 Venezuela 2002 3.4 Iraq 2002–03 3.5 Haiti 2004 3.6 Gaza Strip 2006–present 3.7 Somalia 2006–07 3.8 Iran 2005–present 3.9 Libya 2011 3.10 Syria 2012–present List of countries the USA has bombed since the end of World War IIhttp://www.globalresearch.ca/list-of-countries-the-usa-has-bombed-since-the-end-of-world-war-ii/24626China 1945-46Korea 1950-53China 1950-53Guatemala 1954Indonesia 1958Cuba 1959-60Guatemala 1960Belgian Congo 1964Guatemala 1964Dominican Republic 1965-66Peru 1965Laos 1964-73Vietnam 1961-73Cambodia 1969-70Guatemala 1967-69Lebanon 1982-84Grenada 1983-84Libya 1986El Salvador 1981-92Nicaragua 1981-90Iran 1987-88Libya 1989Panama 1989-90Iraq 1991Kuwait 1991Somalia 1992-94Bosnia 1995Iran 1998Sudan 1998Afghanistan 1998Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999Afghanistan 2001Libya 2011 Operation Gladiohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio1 Origins2 General stay-behind structure 2.1 European Parliament resolution concerning Gladio 2.2 Gladio's strategy of tension and internal subversion operations3 Gladio operations in NATO countries 3.1 First discovered in Italy 3.1.1 Giulio Andreotti's October 24, 1990 revelations 3.1.2 2000 Parliamentary report: a "strategy of tension" 3.1.3 General Maletti's testimony concerning alleged CIA involvement 3.1.4 The DSSA, another Gladio 3.2 Belgium 3.3 France 3.4 Denmark 3.5 Germany 3.5.1 The 1980 Oktoberfest terror attack 3.5.2 Norbert Juretzko's 2004 revelations 3.6 Greece 3.7 Netherlands 3.8 Norway 3.9 Portugal 3.10 Turkey 3.11 United Kingdom 3.11.1 General Serravalle's revelations 3.11.2 Column 88 3.11.3 The Guardian's November 1990 revelations concerning plans under Margaret Thatcher4 Parallel stay-behind operations in non-NATO countries 4.1 Austria 4.2 Cyprus 4.3 Finland 4.4 Spain 4.5 Sweden 4.6 Switzerland5 Allegations6 FOIA requests and US State Department's 2006 communiqué7 Politicians on Gladio8 Books9 Films In Ukraine, The US Is Dragging Us Towards War With RussiaBy John Pilgerhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38498.htmWhy do we tolerate the threat of another world war in our name? Why do we allow lies that justify this risk? The scale of our indoctrination, wrote Harold Pinter, is a "brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis", as if the truth "never happened even while it was happening". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Thanks, that quote in full: "Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals." So what you have there is a perfectly reasonable statement about supporting democracy over a period of 25 years edited and recycled to pretend that it was an admission that the US government was attempting to overthrow the Ukraine government. A classic example of propaganda in action. No, you are deceived. The United States is happy to let 50 million of its people languish on food stamps, so why on earth would you consider the expenditure of $5 billion on foreigners to be a disinterested, politically neutral thing? Imagine if Putin was financing the Scottish independence campaign! For those who are still in love with Amerika I just came across this snippet about a Texas teenager who was punished by his school for refusing to recite the pledge of alllegiance. I have highlighted the bit I found particularly sinister. A Texas high school student who was protesting the government’s NSA domestic surveillance efforts faces suspension for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, Breitbart reports. Mason Michalec, 15, says he faces two days of in-school suspension for waging a silent protest, and says the principal at his high school in Needville, near Houston, has threatened him with a longer suspension if his protest continues. In a recent interview on Houston’s Michael Berry radio show, Michalec explained “he loves America, but he is unhappy with the current state of the union, specifically issues involving the NSA and government surveillance,” according to Kenneth Webster. Michalec says his refusal to say the pledge had gone unnoticed for some time, until recently, when a staff member spotted him and turned him in. Mason Michalec, 15, says he faces two days of in-school suspension for waging a silent protest, and says the principal at his high school in Needville, near Houston, has threatened him with a longer suspension if his protest continues. In a recent interview on Houston’s Michael Berry radio show, Michalec explained “he loves America, but he is unhappy with the current state of the union, specifically issues involving the NSA and government surveillance,” according to Kenneth Webster. Michalec says his refusal to say the pledge had gone unnoticed for some time, until recently, when a staff member spotted him and turned him in. http://www.infowars.com/texas-high-school-suspends-student-for-nsa-protest-refusal-to-say-pledge/ Edited May 15, 2014 by 1929crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) No, you are deceived. The United States is happy to let 50 million of its people languish on food stamps, so why on earth would you consider the expenditure of $5 billion on foreigners to be a disinterested, politically neutral thing? Imagine if Putin was financing the Scottish independence campaign! It is you who is trying to deceive. Quick, you've been found out, change the subject: For those who are still in love with Amerika I just came across this snippet about a Texas teenager who was punished by his school for refusing to recite the pledge of alllegiance. I have highlighted the bit I found particularly sinister. Was the penalty death? Seriously, a kid suspended from school for a couple of days by some halfwit teacher, meanwhile the Russians are annexing by stelth another country. Do you really want me to start listing out all of the politicians and journalists murdered at Putin's behest? Edited May 15, 2014 by Goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Why do people get so personal in this thread? The yank govt is scum. The russian govt are scum. Whats it got to do with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 It is you who is trying to deceive. Quick, you've been found out, change the subject: Was the penalty death? Seriously, a kid suspended from school for a couple of days by some halfwit teacher, meanwhile the Russians are annexing by stelth another country. Do you really want me to start listing out all of the politicians and journalists murdered at Putin's behest? You obviously don't keep up to date with what is going on in Amerika - cops routinely slaughter unarmed citizens for no reason, and then apologists for fascism like you argue that it was justified. OK, list the journalists murdered by Putin. We know he's a dictator- albeit an elected one. But he doesn't pretend to be a friend of freedom, a beacon of light, a city on a hill etc. But Amerika does, and yet it slaughters people all over the world. It has killed thousands of civiians in drone strikes, it rampages into other countries where it has no business to be - it allows 50 million of its people to slowly starve on food stamps yet spends trillions on killing foreigners. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at ignorant people like you who derive their values from Hollywood and pulp fiction tv. You remind me of the parents of a friend of mine back in the 1970s - Labour Party members - who used to holiday in hellholes like Bulgaria and tell me what a workers' paradise it was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Effectively all we all really need is power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth79 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Why do people get so personal in this thread? The yank govt is scum. The russian govt are scum. Whats it got to do with us? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 You obviously don't keep up to date with what is going on in Amerika.......... The difference is that nobody is spamming the forum with pro-US propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The difference is that nobody is spamming the forum with pro-US propaganda. You are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The yank govt is scum. The russian govt are scum. Whats it got to do with us? Quite a lot. The Ukraine crisis looks disturbingly similar to Czechoslovakia in 1938 and we all know what happend next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 You are. Bo11ox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okaycuckoo Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 It's around $100 a barrel - people are so used to this they forget that a decade ago it was around $20. 2000-ish. $20 a barrel was rock bottom after a long decline in price through the '80s, bumped along in the '90s. There's a good argument it caused the collapse of the USSR and guaranteed a disaster for the CIS. I think inflation-adjusted we are at the 1980 price high. The question is whether even $100 is enough for the Russian state to survive. Too little. And yet for the people it's too much. Surely that's more telling than the latest Blue v Green fight, with links to action-men working out their fantasies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okaycuckoo Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Quite a lot. The Ukraine crisis looks disturbingly similar to Czechoslovakia in 1938 and we all know what happend next. That RT vid of a squillionaire getting schooled by Putin was a reminder of Hacha in Berlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okaycuckoo Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Why do people get so personal in this thread? The yank govt is scum. The russian govt are scum. Whats it got to do with us? There are people in the middle. Contrary to media reports about Superman status and financial bobby-dazzledom, the English are people too and need to heat their homes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tio Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The English Octopus ~ US political cartoon 1894 NATO's Eastward Expansion: Did the West Break Its Promise to Moscow?http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html After speaking with many of those involved and examining previously classified British and German documents in detail, SPIEGEL has concluded that there was no doubt that the West did everything it could to give the Soviets the impression that NATO membership was out of the question for countries like Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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