Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

R K

New E10 (Ethanol) Petrol Could Increase Fuel Bills Up To £3.4Bn

Recommended Posts

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/car-e10-fuel-tests/1229024

We compared E10 with E0 ‘pure’ petrol so that they would provide clear evidence that adding ethanol to petrol can reduce fuel economy. It’s important to stress that drivers using the current E5 grade are unlikely to see overheads increase by quite as much as the sums quoted here. However, it’s clear that increasing ethanol content in petrol can drastically increase fuel consumption.

We put E10 to the test in four cars, each with different engine characteristics. Our line-up included a three-cylinder turbo 0.9-litre Dacia Sandero, a 1.4-litre four-cylinder naturally aspirated Hyundai i30, a 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbo Mini Paceman, and a 1.8-litre Toyota Prius Plus hybrid.

We then put them through rigorous emissions tests using the E0 and E10 petrol to gain a clear picture of the effects of ethanol. E10 proved less efficient than E0 in all our tests. The average fall was -8.4%, equating to more than two extra tanks of petrol every year. Assuming both fuels were priced the same, it would represent an extra cost of £170. Apply this to all compatible cars and you’re looking at a national annual fuel bill hike of £3.4 billion. The effect would be smaller, but still significant, when compared with E5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only does it decrease fuel efficiency, the ethanol content is damaging to many types of fuel system. In older machines, it will eat through fuel tanks, fuel lines and carburettor components. It also causes 'gumming' of diagpragm type fuel pumps in power tools like chainsaws, which I suspect accounts for the needless scrapping of many thousands of machines every year. Not very good for the environment.

My advice would be to completely drain the fuel system of machines that will not be used for some time, like motorbikes, lawnmowers or strimmers. If the machine has a plastic fuel tank, I would drain the fuel system even for quite short periods of inactivity. Always use metal fuel cans for petrol, not plastic, to stop the fuel going 'off' so quickly.

I believe Murco and BP Premium, or whatever it's called, are the best chance of ethanol free petrol in the UK (this may not apply in all parts of the country).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are they going to try selling the stuff over here?

They tried in Germany last year....for a couple of months.....German motorists went mad and even government incentives didn't work. The ADAC (equivalent to the AA) did a study and proved that E10 will ruin engines in long term. E10 was taken off the amrket some time last year. I'm quite convinced they won't try again...at least not for the next 10-20 years.

There are certain things you simply can't expect any compliance from German motorists.

Over here?

Following other examples the government will simply introduce E10 and kettle any demonstrators. I love this free and promised land.....not?

Jule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's fairly big in Sweden for corporate cars. These are supposedly ethanol additive "specific" cars but it wouldn't surprise me if they're bogstandard cars with an "E" badge on them. E as in Ethanol not electricity.

Was big in my home town and I know corporate cars in Stockholm use it as a means to not have to pay congestion tax/theft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy a diesel like me.

They won't mess with that because the army use it for their lorries.

Have you seen the potential repair costs for a modern diesel? :huh: Also Tesco diesel used to have a percentage of biodiesel added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big problem with E10 is that it is not compatible with many cars.

You need to have a 58 plate or later to be sure of E10 compatibility. Although many 51 plate or later cars are compatible, the list of exceptions is very long. In particular, cars with GDI, FSI, TFSI, or DI in the model are should be regarded as not compatible unless specifically indicated as compatible by the manufacturer.

In general, cars which are not compatible built after 2000 cannot be made compatible because it is not simple stuff like fuel pipes that are the problem, but precision components of high tech fuel injection systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there something wrong with biodiesel?

It can degrade the fuel system seals and is also a good 'cleaner' so can cause fuel filter blockages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something doesn't add up here though. Looking at the energy density of pure petrol as opposed to E10:

http://en.m.wikipedi.../Energy_density

...you'd expect a reduction in mpg of maybe 3-4%, not 8.4! It's as if the ethanol in the mix adds almost no energy to the combustion.

Bit like a coke dealer cutting his product with baking powder then?

From all the neg replies I'm rather hoping UK doesn't take this sh1t but since UK accepts anything than increases profits and destroys value I suspect that may be a rather forlorn hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

E15 is now standard in the US (i.e. hardly anywhere sells fuel that is E anything less), with E85 available for "flex fuel" vehicles.

Very difficult to compare it to E0, because you just can't get the stuff. But as a general rule, the independently estimated MPG of a typical car made before the middle of the last decade is about 10% more than you actually get. And the contaminant and corrosion problem is so widespread that if you're running an older car, garages recommend that you use a fuel additive to mtigate the ethanol damage. I use this one in my 2008 Civic (on the advice of a local independent garage that has been around for ages and that family members trust) - costs about $2 per 300 miles driven. So there's no doubt that biofuel has pushed up the cost of motoring here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are they going to try selling the stuff over here?

They tried in Germany last year....for a couple of months.....German motorists went mad and even government incentives didn't work. The ADAC (equivalent to the AA) did a study and proved that E10 will ruin engines in long term. E10 was taken off the amrket some time last year. I'm quite convinced they won't try again...at least not for the next 10-20 years.

Well I'm in Germany right now and E10 is available at every petrol station I have been to. What's moe worrying is that 'Super' petrol is in reality E5 (it's only indicated in the small print on the petrol pump), I really didn't want any Ethanol in my car but have been getting it without realising. Now I'll be forced to fill up with 'Super Plus' but again I'll have to check first that they haven't sneaked ethanol into that one too.

AFAIK, the ethanol is sourced from crops (probably corn) which is another reason why I'm against it, as long as there are people starving in other parts of the world.

---

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a lot of Europe, ethanol is sourced from beets, grain (usu wheat, but corn is also used), or cane ethanol is imported from South America. In general, this is the case in the UK, with Brazil and Poland being major sources. In poland, the preferred source is grains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS!

I'm wanting to move to a petrol or a hybrid to avoid the diesel long term maintenance costs, particulates pollution and upfront price.

BUT, now they want to use land where food could be grown (thus pushing up food prices for everyone and starving the poorest) and force me to use the fuel made from this immoral land use to screw up the new car while contributing virtually nothing to the environment due to the diminished efficiency of the engine while using this mix!

AAARGH!

Whose bl**dy idea was this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS!

I'm wanting to move to a petrol or a hybrid to avoid the diesel long term maintenance costs, particulates pollution and upfront price.

BUT, now they want to use land where food could be grown (thus pushing up food prices for everyone and starving the poorest) and force me to use the fuel made from this immoral land use to screw up the new car while contributing virtually nothing to the environment due to the diminished efficiency of the engine while using this mix!

AAARGH!

Whose bl**dy idea was this?

Well as long as you fill her up in CH you don't need to worry. CH has no plans to introduce petrol degraded with ethanol, see this article (in German):

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/technik-motor/fragen-zum-thema-biosprit-die-schweiz-als-e-10-freie-zone-1573168.html

In France E10 seems to be common too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well as long as you fill her up in CH you don't need to worry. CH has no plans to introduce petrol degraded with ethanol, see this article (in German):

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/technik-motor/fragen-zum-thema-biosprit-die-schweiz-als-e-10-freie-zone-1573168.html

In France E10 seems to be common too.

The good old Swiss conservatism. I curse them for not having lpg but thank goodness they're not going the ethanol route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good old Swiss conservatism. I curse them for not having lpg but thank goodness they're not going the ethanol route.

It's an EU mandate for 10% of road vehicle fuel to be biofuel by 2016.

No surprise really, afterall biofuels are fairly transparent wealth transfer to farmers and landowners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Food in your gas tank, petrochemicals in your bread.

makes sense to someone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm in Germany right now and E10 is available at every petrol station I have been to. What's moe worrying is that 'Super' petrol is in reality E5 (it's only indicated in the small print on the petrol pump), I really didn't want any Ethanol in my car but have been getting it without realising. Now I'll be forced to fill up with 'Super Plus' but again I'll have to check first that they haven't sneaked ethanol into that one too.

AFAIK, the ethanol is sourced from crops (probably corn) which is another reason why I'm against it, as long as there are people starving in other parts of the world.

---

I haven't been to Germany for some time.

Only my sister and quite a few of my friends told me that after trying really hard pushing people into filling their cars with E10, they scrapped the thing.

If the stuff is still on the market that's another reason, not to return to Germany, methinks.

Jule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an EU mandate for 10% of road vehicle fuel to be biofuel by 2016.

No surprise really, afterall biofuels are fairly transparent wealth transfer to farmers and landowners.

Makes for interesting reading after your earlier comments regarding engine compatibility. Is this the equivalent of the digital switchover for some people with relatively new cars? I cannot imagine that the prospect of canning that many motors will be politically palatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't been to Germany for some time.

Only my sister and quite a few of my friends told me that after trying really hard pushing people into filling their cars with E10, they scrapped the thing.

If the stuff is still on the market that's another reason, not to return to Germany, methinks.

Well at least you can still get E5 in fact after researching this a bit more I believe that nowadays all petrol everywhere in the EU (yes that includes the UK) is at least E5, they don't have to declare up to 5% ethanol content and as Chumpus said this is a EU mandated thing.

The only petrol in Germany that appears to be free of Ethanol is Aral Ultimate 102 which is a 'premium fuel' that's even more expensive than Shell V-Power (Shell V-Power seems to contain 5% ethanol too).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   210 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.