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hans kammler

Possible Civil War In Europe-Ukraine.

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The Guardian is reporting on a number of incidents relating to the intensification of the pro-Europe demonstrators vs the ukrainian authorites.

Rumours that the army are to be called in and Kerry meeting with the opposition are probably a grim sign of things to come.

Leaders of the opposition were due to meet Kerry in Munich, hours after the Ukrainian army called on the president, Viktor Yanukovych, to act to end the crisis. Moscow also warned Yanukovych that he would lose power if he failed to "quash the rebellion".

Moscow see this as a rebellion, with the ukrainian presidents strong links to moscow it may only be a matter of time before the tanks start rolling in.

Germany urged Yanukovych, who has been on sick leave since Thursday, to find a political solution to avoid further confrontation.

"If the fuse on the powder keg is already lit then it is highly dangerous to play for time," the German foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, said in Munich.

Can the Americans keep out of this one? is it gearing up to be a new syria?

Guardian link-Ukraine

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Moscow see this as a rebellion, with the ukrainian presidents strong links to moscow it may only be a matter of time before the tanks start rolling in.

Guardian link-Ukraine

It is a rebellion and should be treated as such. I would put the army on the streets and start shooting people if they refuse to return to their homes.

That's the best way to end this.

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It is a rebellion and should be treated as such. I would put the army on the streets and start shooting people if they refuse to return to their homes.

That's the best way to end this.

It's a question of political legitimacy. If you can only be the govt by putting tanks on the street are you really a legitimate govt?

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It's a question of political legitimacy. If you can only be the govt by putting tanks on the street are you really a legitimate govt?

Yes, because (despite what the Western media are saying) the rabble on the streets are a minority - troublemakers with no legitimacy of any kind.

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The Americans have no business there at all. Not sure what they are playing at.

Technically, we could say this about ANY place in which America gets...umm... "involved"... but what they're "playing at" is what large powers have done for thousands of years - namely, swing things in their favour, for political, military or economic advantage.

Of course, it's not just the Americans - the British, the French, the Russians, the Chinese etc etc all do this.

I'm not an expert, but often these things can be solved (or at least better understood) by asking simple questions like who gains, and who loses (and how) from certain actions.

Who gains from an unstable Ukraine pulling away from Russia, and how? Who loses?

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Ukrainian president has called in the counter terrorist teams, protesters are now terrorists.

About time. This mob should have been dealt with a long time ago. A heavy hand is the way forward here.

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Technically, we could say this about ANY place in which America gets...umm... "involved"... but what they're "playing at" is what large powers have done for thousands of years - namely, swing things in their favour, for political, military or economic advantage.

Of course, it's not just the Americans - the British, the French, the Russians, the Chinese etc etc all do this.

I'm not an expert, but often these things can be solved (or at least better understood) by asking simple questions like who gains, and who loses (and how) from certain actions.

Who gains from an unstable Ukraine pulling away from Russia, and how? Who loses?

One winner according to Sky is EZ bureaucrats who get to keep their dream of a United States of Europe alive a while longer as people put their lives on the line to join and wave European flags.

Surprised we have not yet seen this sort of uprising to get OUT of the EZ to be honest.

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Ukrainian president has called in the counter terrorist teams, protesters are now terrorists.

Russia today reporting protesters have stolen 1500 firearms and 100,000 rounds of ammo.

US/UK/Russia/EZ will have to step in somehow to prevent serious escalation?

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US/UK/Russia/EZ will have to step in somehow to prevent serious escalation?

Why? I'm fairly sure the Ukrainian army can crush the mob fairly quickly once they turn their minds to it. Send in a few tanks and more heavy weapons - that should get the criminals running.

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Why? I'm fairly sure the Ukrainian army can crush the mob fairly quickly once they turn their minds to it. Send in a few tanks and more heavy weapons - that should get the criminals running.

The ukrainian army is just as likely to fracture and join with the rebellion if they are forced to shoot their friends and family.

The youth of ukraine want the west not russia. The youth have always been the source of power for any uprising.

One region has already declared independence This rebellion has some legs.

on another note, maybe the 2 threads on ukrainain civil war/revolution should be merged?

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President (still the President) and PM gone to Karkhiv, old Soviet capital of Ukraine.

Talk now of whole Eastern areas leaving to join Russia - separate government with Yanukovich in charge. Crimea has asked for assistance from Russia military (reportedly).

Top officals from Moscow are in Karkhiv meeting President and local Parliament.

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