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Xil

When The 'soft Landing' (!) Become A Slide....

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I've been thinking about this for a while now.

During the last 'Soft Landing' of the early 90s when many people had homes repossessed and others ran the gauntlet of negative equity for eight years or more, I remember having sympathy for the affected.

I'm a bit older now (and maybe a bit wiser) and I've watched the excesses of the last few years with increasing annoyance. All the new cars bought with MEW money, the absurd number of people prepared to pay £4000 for a television, flipped properties that come back on the market at £115,000 more than they sold for five months ago (link), etc.

Its been a long party for some people and the hangover is on the horizon.

I'll still be sorry for the few FTBs that succumbed to 'advice' from their friends and family and bought at the top of the market. There will be many people that I won't feel sorry for.

Should we feel sorry for anyone when the 'soft landing' slides away and the moaning begins?

Xil.

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I've been thinking about this for a while now.

During the last 'Soft Landing' of the early 90s when many people had homes repossessed and others ran the gauntlet of negative equity for eight years or more, I remember having sympathy for the affected.

I'm a bit older now (and maybe a bit wiser) and I've watched the excesses of the last few years with increasing annoyance. All the new cars bought with MEW money, the absurd number of people prepared to pay £4000 for a television, flipped properties that come back on the market at £115,000 more than they sold for five months ago (link), etc.

Its been a long party for some people and the hangover is on the horizon.

I'll still be sorry for the few FTBs that succumbed to 'advice' from their friends and family and bought at the top of the market. There will be many people that I won't feel sorry for.

Should we feel sorry for anyone when the 'soft landing' slides away and the moaning begins?

Xil.

I think we had a similar thread to this a few weeks ago but my opinion hasn't changed.

I felt sorry for people last time because they were victims of external factors e.g unemployment, general economy and high interest rates.

I have no sympathy for the many people who have bought houses and have spent beyond their means using lie to buy mortgages or buy paying depositis on credit cards etc. Also no sympathy for anyone who gets in trouble because of excessive mewing/credit card debts.

They have made a very poor financial decision - let them take the consequences.

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Yep, I agree with the above. It's difficult to feel sorry for people who bring this kind of thing on themselves through lying and outright greed. I'll feel sorry for those who felt they had no choice, but not for the amateur "investors" who have helped this bubble grow to such stupid proportions.

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Hmmm let me think about this one..........................

ABSOLUTELY FECK ALL!!!

It's these STUPID people that have helped fuel the Boom - they should have done risk assessment like us!

There is NO EXCUSE for stupidity!!!!

(Harsh but true)

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How much sympathy will you have with those that lose out?

Absolutely none

Ignorant Steve once said 'life's tough, change' or something thereabouts

Works both ways I believe :ph34r:

Edited by Ritters

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I felt sorry for people last time because they were victims of external factors e.g unemployment, general economy and high interest rates.

There will be no crash without one or more of these to cause the 'rebalancing' required !

You don't need to dig out the ski's for the downward slope for a long time yet. Better keep the dog sled team fit, as they pull you along the flat line. You can't even see the crash yet, its somewhere over the horizon.

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There will be no crash without one or more of these to cause the 'rebalancing' required !

You don't need to dig out the ski's for the downward slope for a long time yet. Better keep the dog sled team fit, as they pull you along the flat line. You can't even see the crash yet, its somewhere over the horizon.

I'll just keep my "nordic skis and parachute" handy, thanks.

Carry on with your crystal ball and fairground tent by all means.

btp

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There will be a temptation to feel an element of "schadenfreude" when the music does stop but remember these kids (very little sympathy for anybody over 40 who bleats - you should have known fool you were there last time!) have been fed a one-sided unquestioned and unchallenged diet of spin and vested interest for the last 8 years from their own government the popular press the lenders etc that would never have been tolerated if residential housing was a recognised regulated financial area like equities or bonds.

Someone mentioned the "endowment effect" - where any decision that you make to buy something doesn't really matter because if it goes wrong you can always blame the person who sold it to you. That option won't be available.

Think it will get very messy for those who are seriously geared. Fortunately most of my clients aren't. However it will also have a positive effect in that millions more people will realise that real wealth is generated not by selling each other our own housing stock at higher and higher prices with more and more borrowing but in job creation innovation and technological advances - all of which can be readily accessed through the stock market or venture capital.

A quiet smile perhaps and intrigued as to how Kirsty will explain it away. Watch Channel 4s early evening schedule become as holed as a piece of Gorgonzola.

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During the last 'Soft Landing' of the early 90s when many people had homes repossessed and others ran the gauntlet of negative equity for eight years or more, I remember having sympathy for the affected.

I try to be sympathetic to people no matter how stupid they’ve been. Sort of a Catholic thing.

However last time round really was different as we had not seen such a pronounced slide in nominal house prices. Either there had been short blips down (early 80s) or more severe corrections were covered by inflation (early 70s).

So although it was a classic case of earnings catching up with silly house prices – we hadn’t seen such a slide before for years. There were also a lot more homeowners around than since we last had one of these big slides.

In short, people had no memory of this so there was more of an excuse compared to last time.

I really think this time is going to be different. The fact that the pain will concentrate on people who bought after (around) 2002 or the BTL muppet brigade is going to make people even less sympathetic.

This could also have an impact on the amount of political capital that can be made from helping the losers of the crash.

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This could also have an impact on the amount of political capital that can be made from helping the losers of the crash.

That's a big fear for me. All the FTBs who have waited patiently for a better time to buy will suddenly find they are being taxed into the ground to pay for people 'who lost it all' as a result of the 2006 property crash.

Prospective governments will be falling over themselves to help the late BTL brigade who start whining "nobody told us that property could fall in value........"

Xil.

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I really hope that the BTL brigade get what's coming to them, to be honest. I've got nothing against professional landlords who work hard, and have real skills. People who just paint a house magnolia, pay an EA to let it out, and because it's gone up in value think this makes them a property genius really annoy me - they think the world owes them a living and usually have no respect for others. We had a BTL landlord like this (for a short while) - he didn't get the fact that we were actually paying for a service - not just giving him money every month because he somehow randomly deserved it. He was completely obnoxious and really stupid (both myself and my husband had better qualifications & better jobs than him, yet he was somehow 'superior' just because he owned the house).

I actually hope some of these people lose not only their BTL but their own homes too and are forced to become the very tenants they've scorned, looked down upon, used and abused.

I will feel sympathy for those FTBs who were recently tricked onto the mystical bottom rung of the ladder by the VI spin. Most people will not lose out unless they've massively MEW'ed, as their mortgage will be nowhere near 'current' values.

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ABSOLUTELY FECK ALL!!!

It's these STUPID people that have helped fuel the Boom - they should have done risk assessment like us!

There is NO EXCUSE for stupidity!!!!

(Harsh but true)

It is harsh - I'm inclined to be more sympathetic. It's hard to resist the pressure from our culture to buy property, and most people haven't been educated well enough to be able to figure things out for themselves. Perhaps if we taught practical economics at school people'd have more sense.

Greedy property speculators I have no sympathy for. If they can happily take the rewards, they should be prepared to take the downsides too.

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None - I had to put my Life on hold, I had a relationship that resulted in a break up and I ended up very ill as a direct result.

I am usually very forgiving but in this instance I have no sympathy for those whose greed has put us into this situation.

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I feel sorry for the Credit Hungry Advertisement Victims, but then again you have to look out for yourself in this world. If they are too lazy to find anything out for themselves then they deserve what they get.

Judging by the membership of this site, compared to the number of people making large investments using loaned money, about 99% of the population has been mislead by advertising and government spin.

If I feel sorry for them, it's only because they SHOULD be able to trust government/tv advice, but are too stupid to realise they can't.

On the other hand, they need the lesson they are about to get, so I can't feel sorry for them

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lots of sympathy for the FTB's that got suckered in.

none at all for BTL who thought it was their way to millions,I hope they get what they deserve.

for BTL who have/are about to exit then they do deserve a bit of cred,they've at least shown they have some worthy skill.

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Hmmm let me think about this one..........................

ABSOLUTELY FECK ALL!!!

It's these STUPID people that have helped fuel the Boom - they should have done risk assessment like us!

There is NO EXCUSE for stupidity!!!!

(Harsh but true)

Harsh, but I tend to agree, mostly because of the ridiculous premium people were prepared to pay during the credit frenzy for a pre-delivered lick of paint, trendy leather lounge and decorative fireplace! These things were putting 30-40K on top. I mean pick up a paint brush and drop down to the fireplace store! This was money nobody thought about, to pay for their own lack of creativity and effort. When they have to pay I personally don't care. And anyway, what homeowners are sitting at home in their nicely painted flats, staring at the flat screen home cinema on the leather lounge with the faux fire burning worrying their heads about affordability issues for me right now? I think compassion needs to be thought through in terms of an economy. But I think Xil is right. Compassion or not, I will end up paying more tax to bail out selfish now, now, now, born again welfare state protagonists of housing capitalism. Hmmm...

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Should we feel sorry for anyone when the 'soft landing' slides away and the moaning begins?

No. We should feel happy for them because lower prices will make it easier for them to move into nicer properties.

What's wrong with you people? Listen up shoppers, LOW PRICES = GOOD, HIGH PRICES = BAD. It's not rocket science (and even rocket science apparently doesn't pay well enough to buy at current prices).

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I will feel sorry for 2 people I know who took out Self Cert mortgages simply to buy their own flats in London, even though they are salary employed rather then self employed & on small-ish salaries.

I will feel sorry for my colleague who sits next to me who only 4 months ago bought a 2 bedroom flat with a friend using a 100% mortgage :o

I will also feel sorry for another colleague, who, sick of communting for 4 hours each day decided to buy a new build one bedroom flat with the help of her parents past the Docklands area only 2 months ago.

I feel sorry that they may not have got the advice I got from 2 older friends who were stuck in negative equity until 1997 when they bought back in 88. All I can hope is that it works out for them if we don't get a soft landing. If we do get a soft landing, feck it, I'm going to go and live in a country where I can afford a decent quality of life.

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What's wrong with you people? Listen up shoppers, LOW PRICES = GOOD, HIGH PRICES = BAD. It's not rocket science (and even rocket science apparently doesn't pay well enough to buy at current prices).

Well the weird thing is that for everything except for houses that applies, why do people like Tesco's and Asda because they're cheap, people think blimey I've got a dvd player for £20 (the same for cars the 2nd most expensive purchase you're likely to make) and they're HAPPY that the prices are cheap. However, for some insane reason people think the exact opposite when it comes to houses. I guess it's the same sheep mentality that caused people to queue at petrol stations during the other month rather than wait a few days when the queues are gone and prices have come down, they've become frightened (helped by the media) and are just glad to have a house/petrol and don't care how much they paid.

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Well the weird thing is that for everything except for houses that applies, why do people like Tesco's and Asda because they're cheap, people think blimey I've got a dvd player for £20 (the same for cars the 2nd most expensive purchase you're likely to make) and they're HAPPY that the prices are cheap. However, for some insane reason people think the exact opposite when it comes to houses. I guess it's the same sheep mentality that caused people to queue at petrol stations during the other month rather than wait a few days when the queues are gone and prices have come down, they've become frightened (helped by the media) and are just glad to have a house/petrol and don't care how much they paid.

I think itself-interest for a lot. People think they own really expensive stuff, they feel rich and they keep voting for the guys that made them "rich". They still own the same amount of stuff, but it makes them feel more valuable. There are lots of nominal millionaires in this country right now. When I was growing up that was just a ridiculous dream. People like to think that their millionaires. And once they have a VI in the property they have spent too much on relative to what they earn, they have a very serious stake in keeping it that way, and staying millionaires rather than embracing bankrupcy. The fact that it creates insecurity for a large section of society doesn't matter - and it doesn't matter to the Labour Party either because they are only in power to serve business and keep the proles quiet (more sops to sooth the dying / breeding pillow). And what did Maggie say about society?

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lots of sympathy for the FTB's that got suckered in.

none at all for BTL who thought it was their way to millions,I hope they get what they deserve.

for BTL who have/are about to exit then they do deserve a bit of cred,they've at least shown they have some worthy skill.

Also none for MEWLS.

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Wait a second. The crash certainly isn't guaranteed.

If we do get a flat landing or even see house prices pick up. Do you think the general property owning public should care about our predicament? I think most do.

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NO Sympathy!

They should have listened intently to Mr Grouse during those O'Level economics classes.

O'Level economics would have been enough for them to see the absurdity of the last 5 years and to have positioned themselves accordingly.

Tough life isn't it!

Edited by Culpability Brown

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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