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What Is The Future Of Universal Healthcare In The Uk?

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Never mind the future the present is looking pretty bleak

I don't think most people have any idea of the level of competition thats already been introduced to the health and social care sector over the last few years, and as far as I can see none of it has had any positive effect.

I recently heard about two London organisations who both bid to take over the others patch, one in the north london, one in south london - they both won by under bidding the contract. So all the staff were TUPEd over from one organisation to another and moved to offices miles across town - away from their normal commute and away from the patients they are supposed to be serving.

Now most of the staff arent happy about this change so huge numbers have either taken early retirement, (some of the managers awarded themselves huge redundancy deals and walked away) and a lot of them have quit and gone to work for the rival organisation i.e. back to their old jobs, typically getting a pay rise in the process.

Both organisations are now running in deficit because the money they get from the contract is less than the cost of running the service.

How does any of this benefit the patients?

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Real health costs kick in at retirement at about £5,000 per capita. Up to that point in a persons life the cost is fairly modest.

Imo the whole thing is a Ponzi scheme which will tip over the edge as demographics become even less favourable than they are today. At which time charging will start to apply; which of course is already the case in residential care for those with dementia.

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In my opinion the UK economy boomed in the late 1990s and early 2000s because all those public industries that were privatised in the 1980s (BT, BP, National Rail etc.) by the Conservatives took on huge amounts if debt and the UK's money supply rocketed.

The same will happen with the NHS. They want to privatise the NHS to allow hospitals, surgeries and GP offices to take out larger loans from banks. The banks will make a fortune in interest. It has nothing to do with politics as the political parties exist simply to protect the banks. Labour will do it in the end if the Conservatives don't do it first.

I have always asked myself cui bono when political decisions are made in the UK and 9 times of of 10 the real beneficiaries are the banks.

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I have always asked myself cui bono when political decisions are made in the UK and 9 times of of 10 the real beneficiaries are the banks.

The DEBT ponzi...if they don't stop creating ways of adding DEBT to the system, what happens?

Maybe a better question should be - 'What is the future of the UK finances?'

It's quite irritating when you hear people saying the NHS is 'free'. Yes, if you never work maybe!

The country borrowing (at interest) of 2 billion a week is not 'free' either.

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The DEBT ponzi...if they don't stop creating ways of adding DEBT to the system, what happens?

Maybe a better question should be - 'What is the future of the UK finances?'

It's quite irritating when you hear people saying the NHS is 'free'. Yes, if you never work maybe!

The country borrowing (at interest) of 2 billion a week is not 'free' either.

The debt we have loaded up with to keep the show on the road is insignificant compared to the unfunded liabilities we will incur as the Nation ages. At least £100,000 per capita to look after the average retiree in healthcare which we have thus far met by expanding the balance sheet and having more favourable demographics.

These trillions of pounds in off balance sheet liabilities that dwarf current debt can only be met with BRICs style GDP (not going to happen) or charging.

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The debt we have loaded up with to keep the show on the road is insignificant compared to the unfunded liabilities we will incur as the Nation ages. At least £100,000 per capita to look after the average retiree in healthcare

The state just won't look after them.

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The state just won't look after them.

That would not surprise me......a tick box to see how productive an individual is to society, treatment granted on value for money..... ;)

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That would not surprise me......a tick box to see how productive an individual is to society, treatment granted on value for money..... ;)

If they applied charges it would be equal across all age groups. However, as the elderly are disproportionate users they would be hit the hardest. Meanwhile for anyone on pension credit you can be sure the charges would still be free.

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After 2 awful health secretaries - Dobson and Lansley?

and Jeremy "60 year mistake" Hunt? Fox in control of the hen-house.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9520269/Jeremy-Hunt-is-controversial-appointment-as-Health-Secretary.html

Try reading the 2012 Health and Social Care Act to see where all this is going. Warning it is very heavy reading.

If you do care about maintaining an NHS then you might want to look up the NHA party http://nhap.org/about/

From various campaigns I've been involved it astounds me the ignorance and apathy shown by the British public on this topic.

There was a great thread on here probably written by one of the medics depicting our elected and unelected representatives in Westminster and their

personal interests in private health and social care companies. something like 200. Mostly Tory but LibDem and Labour too.

I'd give it 3 years before we're on a insurance based system. A further 3 before it becomes a Medicaid/Medicare third world system.

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The DEBT ponzi...if they don't stop creating ways of adding DEBT to the system, what happens?

Maybe a better question should be - 'What is the future of the UK finances?'

It's quite irritating when you hear people saying the NHS is 'free'. Yes, if you never work maybe!

The country borrowing (at interest) of 2 billion a week is not 'free' either.

Exactly so. The system is a treadmill that requires ever more debt. One way to do that is to financialize non-debt bearing assets. The tories were talking about privatizing (i.e. financializing) the road network a year or two ago - until they realized it would put them out of power for 2 decades if they did.

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If they applied charges it would be equal across all age groups. However, as the elderly are disproportionate users they would be hit the hardest. Meanwhile for anyone on pension credit you can be sure the charges would still be free.

...yes but a young person has more future earning potential......we need the young to be fit and healthy, they are our future, our future earning potential, the elderly may have given their life and their work and their taxes to the nation, but more of them are seen as more able to afford long-term treatments than many of the working young can in this day and age.....the tables are turning?

Years gone by there was not this extra health expense, now due to costly but good R&D new drugs and treatments that may or may not work, the health bill can only get larger and bigger, lives and jobs depend on it...people then just used to die at a set date, not, as often is the way now maintained for what can be years to then to die at a later date........ ;)

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...yes but a young person has more future earning potential......we need the young to be fit and healthy, they are our future, our future earning potential, the elderly may have given their life and their work and their taxes to the nation, but more of them are seen as more able to afford long-term treatments than many of the working young can in this day and age.....the tables are turning?

Years gone by there was not this extra health expense, now due to costly but good R&D new drugs and treatments that may or may not work, the health bill can only get larger and bigger, lives and jobs depend on it...people then just used to die at a set date, not, as often is the way now maintained for what can be years to then to die at a later date........ ;)

I think we need to look at how to pay (like long term residential care) for an increasingly expensive NHS with new treatments. The first generation that will probably have to pay will be people like myself aged around 50.

A fair way of paying would possibly be a retrospective charge on deceased estates. At the moment you have deceased persons whos estates bear no charge up to £650,000 despite the fact that they may have run up £100,000s in welfare and health charges, which doesn't seem equitable on future generations to me, except the lucky beneficiaries.

Edited by crashmonitor

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I think we need to look at how to pay (like long term residential care) for an increasingly expensive NHS with new treatments. The first generation that will probably have to pay will be people like myself aged around 50.

A fair way of paying would possibly be a retrospective charge on deceased estates. At the moment you have deceased persons whos estates bear no charge up to £650,000 despite the fact that they may have run up £100,000s in welfare and health charges, which doesn't seem equitable on future generations to me, except the lucky beneficiaries.

I tend to agree.....we have to look at new ways of doing things simply because however much we all want it and enjoy it, it can't stay exactly the same, like nothing ever stays the same forever.....

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Not being callous and all that but . . . .

After birth (natal stuff), getting you injections and the odd pan on your head or trip to A+E, most people do not visit the NHS until much later in life - bar the low number of high visiting professional dossers turning up for the monday morning sign off.

The improvements in the UK health over the last 50 years have been down to people stopping smoking, water,sewage + food rather than anything the NHS has done.

As far as OAP a lot of procedures make the OAP much worse.

Putting an OAP up in the ritz is cheapre than putting one up in the local hospital.

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There was a great thread on here probably written by one of the medics depicting our elected and unelected representatives in Westminster and their personal interests in private health and social care companies. something like 200. Mostly Tory but LibDem and Labour too.

Is there a link to this?

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The OP asked about universal healthcare in the UK, but there is no organisation providing that - the NHS in England and Wales is a totally separate organisation from the NHS in Scotland, it's just confusing that they have similar names.

I am not sure about NI, who runs the health service there?

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There was a great thread on here probably written by one of the medics depicting our elected and unelected representatives in Westminster and their personal interests in private health and social care companies. something like 200. Mostly Tory but LibDem and Labour too.

Is there a link to this?

See

My link

from Shrinkproof.

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