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Immigration Tax/benefit Stats

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R4 has a handy programme on stats.

Short clip on contributions to public purse by immigrants (01:00 to 06:45):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qfzgx

Average net tax/benefits (+/-) 1995-2011 in £ by immigrants:

  • All: - 14000
  • European: + 6000
  • Non-European: - 21000

And native Brits? - 11000

I'm not against immigration. Some of my best friends are dagos . . .

However, you have to be very careful of the stats. Surveys like this have a tendency to add the income and ignore the outgoings.

I've yet to here any discussion of benefits talk about tax credits.

Because of browns cretinous tax credits, a family with kids would require an income of 40k+ to make a net contribution. Never mind cost of NHS and state pensions.

Chuck in stuff like housing benefits and there are massive incentives NOT to work.

Looks at the London population and housing benefit stats.

People who paint a rosey picture about immigration's tend to be basing there conclusions on the USA, who have a more work or starve benefit culture, or Oz, which sets a very high bar - unqualified people with dependents need not apply.

A counter to these arguments is: 'If immigration makes such a positive contribution then why is the UK running such high budget deficits?

And, no its not bailing the banks.

Take out all tax credits - £25bln/year spent and still no one loves Brown - and the UK would be in a much better position.

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numerous studies have shown the same thing. While personally im against all immigration other than a one in-one out system (WE'RE FULL UP!), EU immigrants have generally been a positive economic addition, non-EU negative. In typical politician form, they want to restrict EU immigration and do nothing about the rest. Ironic that the immigration they cant control, but want to is the less bad sort.

That being said, its only a small part of the picture

What of the inflationary impact on competing for resources (HOUSING)

What of the deflationary effect on wages

What of remittances (roughly 3 times aid, or 2% of GDP) that worsen the trade balance

What of requiring more food and fuel imports to sustain a large population, again, worsening the trade balance.

Of course, to politicians its just more votes for the client state. They couldnt care about such things.

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R4 has a handy programme on stats.

Short clip on contributions to public purse by immigrants (01:00 to 06:45):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qfzgx

Average net tax/benefits (+/-) 1995-2011 in £ by immigrants:

  • All: - 14000
  • European: + 6000
  • Non-European: - 21000

And native Brits? - 11000

The telegraph had different statistics

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10426202/Migrants-more-likely-to-claim-work-benefits-than-Britons.html

The data shows that 14.6 per cent — or one in seven people — claiming working tax credit is a non-UK national.

I would love to see the figures for non European divided into Muslim and non Muslim.

FWTW I am not anti immigration providing they work, obey they law and don't want Shariah.

I don't care what someone's skin colour is black, white etc providing they work, obey they law and don't want Shariah.

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numerous studies have shown the same thing. While personally im against all immigration other than a one in-one out system (WE'RE FULL UP!), EU immigrants have generally been a positive economic addition, non-EU negative. In typical politician form, they want to restrict EU immigration and do nothing about the rest. Ironic that the immigration they cant control, but want to is the less bad sort.

That being said, its only a small part of the picture

What of the inflationary impact on competing for resources (HOUSING)

What of the deflationary effect on wages

What of remittances (roughly 3 times aid, or 2% of GDP) that worsen the trade balance

What of requiring more food and fuel imports to sustain a large population, again, worsening the trade balance.

Of course, to politicians its just more votes for the client state. They couldnt care about such things.

+1

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Was that programme looking at the UCL report?

It has been critiscised - but not on the impartial BBC

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100244630/immigration-errors-guesswork-and-oversight-in-the-report-everyone-is-quoting/

Professor Dustmann who once “predicted that opening UK borders to 10 new EU countries in 2004 would increase the population by 13,000 a year”. Data can indeed be imperfect.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/PRimmigration.html

• The actual difference in net contributions is a relatively small sum, which would vanish under a different treatment of a few assumptions, such as capital investment in social housing;

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However, you have to be very careful of the stats. Surveys like this have a tendency to add the income and ignore the outgoings.

I've yet to here any discussion of benefits talk about tax credits.

That's why the programme is so good - it takes statistics cited in the press and analyses the claims made. A lot of sacred cows get slaughtered.

edit: Complaints about EU immigration are not just a red herring - they are a serious case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. And the implications for commonwealth immigration are serious - what do the Tories make of that when they're championing the commonwealth and the far east over Europe?

Edited by okaycuckoo

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I am 38 and throughout these years there has been almost unlimited immigration into England, yet despite being in a better paid job then my father who was/is a welder i am far poorer then him.

So it would seem these immigrants havent made Britain as rich as these deluded idiots who do this kind of survey seem to think.

The only people to have prospered are immigrants who arrived with sweet FA and now have that plus not a lot more, and those running businesses using cheap labour.

My daughter is mixed race yet i despise what mass immigration has done to this country.

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I am 38 and throughout these years there has been almost unlimited immigration into England, yet despite being in a better paid job then my father who was/is a welder i am far poorer then him.

So it would seem these immigrants havent made Britain as rich as these deluded idiots who do this kind of survey seem to think.

The only people to have prospered are immigrants who arrived with sweet FA and now have that plus not a lot more, and those running businesses using cheap labour.

My daughter is mixed race yet i despise what mass immigration has done to this country.

Money or your Daughter, which makes you richer ?

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Money or your Daughter, which makes you richer ?

The life of the daughter will be the legacy of the wealth.

How will kids exist in the future. Doesn't matter where they are from, maybe the uk kids are worse off. Uni debt, no hope of a house, which means no hope of a settled family existence, no communities, no chance of saving for old age.

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The life of the daughter will be the legacy of the wealth.

How will kids exist in the future. Doesn't matter where they are from, maybe the uk kids are worse off. Uni debt, no hope of a house, which means no hope of a settled family existence, no communities, no chance of saving for old age.

Im not blaming immigrants for the housing predicament i blame that on vile thieves like Gordon, Tony, Dave and Osborne. But as someone who travels 100 odd thousand miles a year and works with 3rd worlders i'd sooner most we have here were given a year or so to go back to where they came, most immigrants bring nothing at all to this nation, its never been so divided or broken.

Some fat African women i sat next to on the train coming back from Heathrow who was on her phone for as long as could be is never going to mix with the indigenous or bring anything other then giving birth to some bad boy gangsters who will stab me for walking in a black part of town as im a ******.

When i go abroad i go on a work visa once the few weeks or months that im on the job is over i am straight out the country, this is the immigration we should have in relation to foreign workers.

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Some fat African women i sat next to on the train coming back from Heathrow who was on her phone for as long as could be is never going to mix with the indigenous or bring anything other then giving birth to some bad boy gangsters who will stab me for walking in a black part of town as im a ******.

This is the problem the anti- anti-immigration have.

In the 70s it was easy to make a case against a load of NF boot boys causing problems for the 'darkies' or p a k i s.

Now, most people under 50 are wiser to the different cultures and traits and how much they'll cost the country:

Mipuri (hill billy pakistanis/afghan border types) - not with a barge pole.

Somali single mums with 10 kids - no thanks.

Misc. african non-working single mums - nope.

African middle class working - not a problem.

Ugandan indians - fine

Cantonese - great.

Beveridge set up the welfare state when France was a long way away and people worked or starved.

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R4 has a handy programme on stats.

Short clip on contributions to public purse by immigrants (01:00 to 06:45):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qfzgx

Average net tax/benefits (+/-) 1995-2011 in £ by immigrants:

  • All: - 14000
  • European: + 6000
  • Non-European: - 21000

And native Brits? - 11000

Reducing the problems/benefits of immigration to a simple calculation of their net tax contribution is a deliberate (and very clever), tory tactic, which allows them to support immigration whilst using anti-immigration rhetoric.

They've basically invented 'good' immigration and 'bad' immigration, so they can be quietly in favour of one and loudly opposed to the other.

The real issues with immigration are things like housing, the pressure on jobs and the harder to quantify but real effects on the culture.

Edited by (Blizzard)

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I am 38 and throughout these years there has been almost unlimited immigration into England, yet despite being in a better paid job then my father who was/is a welder i am far poorer then him.

So it would seem these immigrants havent made Britain as rich as these deluded idiots who do this kind of survey seem to think.

The only people to have prospered are immigrants who arrived with sweet FA and now have that plus not a lot more, and those running businesses using cheap labour.

My daughter is mixed race yet i despise what mass immigration has done to this country.

I don't disagree with your post - however it is partly because of Gordon Brown and Tony Blair's economic policies

that people like you and I are poorer than our parents as opposed to their economic policies.

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I think the system of allocating jobs and housing has been permanently broken now, and mass immigration in the past fifteen years has helped to short-circuited the system. Using a pool of cheaper immigrant labour in Singapore is starting to break down as well.

Culture in the UK has always been in flux and Western culture is still very strong, however having relatively massive numbers of people coming in who's mind state is trapped around 1000 BC to 1000 AD is going to cause hiccups.

Edited by Big Orange

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I think the system of allocating jobs and housing has been permanently broken now, and mass immigration in the past fifteen years has helped to short-circuited the system. Using a pool of cheaper immigrant labour in Singapore is starting to break down as well.

Culture in the UK has always been in flux and Western culture is still very strong, however having relatively massive numbers of people coming in who's mind state is trapped around 1000 BC to 1000 AD is going to cause hiccups.

In Barking the most popular question put to the metropolitan elite panel in the audience ballot on Question Time last week was regarding the surge in immigration and its adverse effects. Not much chance of a sympathetic hearing then...........

Edited by crashmonitor

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When i was working in industry my wages fell every year against inflation from around 2001.The companies then were employing more and more immigrants on lower wages.The unions didnt fight it.

Now i have my own business (online retailer) more and more of my customers are immigrants (from surnames).Not all of those will be of course but a large %.

So as an employee i wanted immigration stopped or cut by 90% because it ruined my standard of living.As a business i now want as much immigration as possible because it makes me lots more money.

That is the situation.Immigration is terrible for workers/employees,its fantastic for business.

I would rather have smaller profits though and immigration come under much tighter control as the fabric of society means more to me than more dosh.However as long as rentiers run the country and business buys MPs nothing will be done.

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numerous studies have shown the same thing. While personally im against all immigration other than a one in-one out system (WE'RE FULL UP!), EU immigrants have generally been a positive economic addition, non-EU negative. In typical politician form, they want to restrict EU immigration and do nothing about the rest. Ironic that the immigration they cant control, but want to is the less bad sort.

That being said, its only a small part of the picture

What of the inflationary impact on competing for resources (HOUSING)

What of the deflationary effect on wages

What of remittances (roughly 3 times aid, or 2% of GDP) that worsen the trade balance

What of requiring more food and fuel imports to sustain a large population, again, worsening the trade balance.

Of course, to politicians its just more votes for the client state. They couldnt care about such things.

This is the biggie as far as I am concerned.

I did a post some time ago saying.

If it costs £100,000 to build a house

and the house lasts 100 years

that is £1,000 a year or £20 a week

My post was criticize by ST1 and rightly so. but still I think my answer to what housing should cost is closer than what we are paying.

At current rental prices we could afford to knock down a house every 10 years and build from scratch.

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In Barking the most popular question put to the metropolitan elite panel in the audience ballot on Question Time last week was regarding the surge in immigration and its adverse effects. Not much chance of a sympathetic hearing then...........

That was an interesting episode considering Q.T's usual standards, David aaronovitch came across as a near hysterical and slimy ***** for the most part. He is smart enough to know the difference between the numbers involved in his parents immigration wave and the current MASS immigration going on, to then start mentioning "black face" painted the homeless fella as a classic racist who is to stupid to understand just how amazing mass immigration is for the country.

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That was an interesting episode considering Q.T's usual standards, David aaronovitch came across as a near hysterical and slimy ***** for the most part. He is smart enough to know the difference between the numbers involved in his parents immigration wave and the current MASS immigration going on, to then start mentioning "black face" painted the homeless fella as a classic racist who is to stupid to understand just how amazing mass immigration is for the country.

I'm guessing it is amazing for the Metropolitan elite on that panel. It creates demand for houses and short term tax gains which ignore long term retirement and health liabilities forty years hence. Meaning it keeps the state health and pension Ponzi scheme alive for those aged 50+ and protects the assets of the property owning classes .Meanwhile for those directly competing for resources with immigrants such as for social housing (including the homeless guy) it isn't that amazing.

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Panelist Aaronovitch did the full monty on the homeless man. Misquoting and planting words in the homeless man's mouth - and that was the least of the stuff Aaronovitch came out with.

Panelist Platell didn't seem to do that and seemed a bit more sympathetic.

Apparently Question Time isn't as spontaneous as it seems to be so it could have been some sort of Mutt and Jeff ploy.

It was remarkable how the audience seemed to be united almost as a whole against the opinion of the homeless man (and the female from Barking in the audience) - complete with ohs and ahs, boos and hisses and then loud applause against his opinion.

Edited by billybong

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