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2005

Shopping Yesterday Evening

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Started the Christmas shopping yesterday evening - God what a contrast.

Started in Toy's R Us (out of town retail park). Dead as a do do - one person on the till and even she wasn't really there. We had to wait until she had stopped gabbing to her mate before she came back to the till.

Next we headed off to the local shopping centre (big one). Never seen anything like it. I frequent this place regularly - well I did until about 6 months ago when I gave up shopping. I have never seen so much money changing hands in my life. I actually came out of there with a real sense of dispair.

What got me was the people. I think everyone in there was between 18 and 25. I have honestly never seen so many people wearing so much designer stuff in my life. I have also never seen so many people buying such cr@p in my life. Shops like trinket/gadget shops were heaving.

People were lining up to buy fresh squeezed orange juice and sushi ? (spelling -sorry I am from the north!)from Selfridges !!!

I actually felt, when I was in there, that there was almost a compulsion to spend - it was like a frenzy - I can't really describe it but it was like herd mentality at it's worst. People were just buying anything for the sake of buying.

I have been to this shopping centre every Christmas since it opened - I have never experienced the atmosphere I did yesterday evening. It was almost like everyone had thrown caution to the wind and was just jumping on a bandwagon.

You had to be there - but the atmosphere was one I have not experienced before.

Either HPC has got it seriously wrong - or we are heading for the biggest financial meltdown in history.

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These presumably are the 18 to 25 year old's who live at mums and have all their sub £25K income to spend on cr8p. Went out the other week, onto a club and I'm not kiding you, you couldn't move, it was heaving with 18 to 25 yo's - £15 for a round etc etc

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Started the Christmas shopping yesterday evening - God what a contrast.

Started in Toy's R Us (out of town retail park). Dead as a do do - one person on the till and even she wasn't really there. We had to wait until she had stopped gabbing to her mate before she came back to the till.

Next we headed off to the local shopping centre (big one). Never seen anything like it. I frequent this place regularly - well I did until about 6 months ago when I gave up shopping. I have never seen so much money changing hands in my life. I actually came out of there with a real sense of dispair.

What got me was the people. I think everyone in there was between 18 and 25. I have honestly never seen so many people wearing so much designer stuff in my life. I have also never seen so many people buying such cr@p in my life. Shops like trinket/gadget shops were heaving.

People were lining up to buy fresh squeezed orange juice and sushi ? (spelling -sorry I am from the north!)from Selfridges !!!

I actually felt, when I was in there, that there was almost a compulsion to spend - it was like a frenzy - I can't really describe it but it was like herd mentality at it's worst. People were just buying anything for the sake of buying.

I have been to this shopping centre every Christmas since it opened - I have never experienced the atmosphere I did yesterday evening. It was almost like everyone had thrown caution to the wind and was just jumping on a bandwagon.

You had to be there - but the atmosphere was one I have not experienced before.

Either HPC has got it seriously wrong - or we are heading for the biggest financial meltdown in history.

Someone else said that there was the possibility that many people would take the view that they had been good for a few months and paid off some of the credit card debt and would treat themselves over Xmas. Sounds like they may be right. Your observation on the age of the shoppers is interesting though. Could be that the trend is not universal across all age goups. Those with mortgages would tend to be above the age group you memtion, and they do not appear to be out and about a view supported by the observation that the out of town shopping centres were desserted.

I suspect that this could still be a bad Xmass for retailers.

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I think you are correct. Toy's R Us = families - kids stuff. Shopping centre = younger people - maybe no mortgage and no kids.

Yes - I think there is a generational thing going on but it can't last for ever. Sooner or later these younger people are going to want a home and a family.

After my expereince last night I do actually feel sorry for them.

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I think you are correct. Toy's R Us = families - kids stuff. Shopping centre = younger people - maybe no mortgage and no kids.

Yes - I think there is a generational thing going on but it can't last for ever. Sooner or later these younger people are going to want a home and a family.

After my expereince last night I do actually feel sorry for them.

Hi,

I was in a large Homebase store today. I think there was 3 people in there. You could see right down each isle to the end without seeing anyone, and the staff were standing off the tills chatting.

I didn't buy anything.

Hell of a change from summer. Don't know if you can really compare this though. Aren't these stores always quiet this time of year? Never seen one this quiet tho'...

Regards

BR :)

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My wife and step daughter just reported the Mall at Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, was really quiet today.

2005,

Where are you?

Manchester - Trafford Centre

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These posts made me wonder if it might be an interesting idea to pin this article for snippets with regards to retail sector as below (i.e. I was in Next and I couldn't move, went to homebase and it was dead, type things) At least we'll be able to work out where the money is being spent

Special areas of interest would be furniture shops, DIY, bathroom stores, estate agents !!

What d'yall think ??

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These posts made me wonder if it might be an interesting idea to pin this article for snippets with regards to retail sector as below (i.e. I was in Next and I couldn't move, went to homebase and it was dead, type things) At least we'll be able to work out where the money is being spent

Special areas of interest would be furniture shops, DIY, bathroom stores, estate agents !!

What d'yall think ??

Hi,

I am in Inverness area, and yes, I think that the pinning is a good idea.

BR

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you have to bare in mind that for every broke muppet with his massive interest only mortgage there are 10 young people on professional wages living in shared houses and at their parents.

Designer gear..?

I think the no hope generation feel crushed by life and labour..

To that end.. when they feel they have nothing to show.. perhaps they want to try and say...

"I know I havent got a house.. and I can't have a future.. but I have made something of myself.. I work hard.. I am succesfull..."

I would think most would rather be at home with a family..

It just isn't an option

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you have to bare in mind that for every broke muppet with his massive interest only mortgage there are 10 young people on professional wages living in shared houses and at their parents.

There's no one, or next to no one, on "professional wages" who can't afford to buy. Let's not abuse the term. Professionals are qualified doctors, lawyers, architects, accountants etc. -- trainees don't count -- and they make good money.

There may, of course, be plenty of professionals who choose not to buy because they think they should be able to get more for their money -- and they may well be right -- but that doesn't mean they can't buy.

Edited by zorn

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Local Currys store (barstewards :angry: ) was dead this evening. About 5 staff leaning on the tills chatting and 3 or so others wandering around aimlessly. Only 2 other families in there as far as I could tell.

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There's no one, or next to no one, on "professional wages" who can't afford to buy. Let's not abuse the term. Professionals are qualified doctors, lawyers, architects, accountants etc. -- trainees don't count -- and they make good money.

There may, of course, be plenty of professionals who choose not to buy because they think they should be able to get more for their money -- and they may well be right -- but that doesn't mean they can't buy.

I am sorry but this one raises my stuff. I earn 30K a year odd, I am a professional (or at least I thought I was until I realised that professional involved a techical degree). I live in London. What do you want me to buy at 41 years old. A small studio shower only in a Zone 4 sink area that I can't walk home at night to while away my spinsterhood? And the truth is that I am better off renting than locking myself into that depressing scenario for the next 20 years. You own already, that is obvious and also fine - I don't envy you your luck, but sorry mate, you are a complacent tosser who doesn't know the first thing about having to manage limited resources and limited opportunities in housing.

EDIT:

And if I get a warning for the abuse I don't care. You have no goodwill toward anyone who doesn't have your means and I have no good will toward you. Viva la Revolution.

EDIT 2:

Oh and just by the way, 30K puts me just ABOVE the average wage, meaning that only 30% of the population earn in that range. If I can't afford to buy who the hell can?

Edited by Elizabeth

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We love christmas in our family, but don't like the commercializam part of it. It's not a case of how much you spend, it's on how much you love and care about your friends, and family that matter, not on how much you spend on them. Actions speak louder than words.

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What got me was the people. I think everyone in there was between 18 and 25. I have honestly never seen so many people wearing so much designer stuff in my life. I have also never seen so many people buying such cr@p in my life. Shops like trinket/gadget shops were heaving.

I'm in the 18-25 age group (alright, 26) so I can give some perspective here. I have loads of spare cash cos I'm renting, it's dirt cheap!

(however I wouldn't waste it on that 'designer' muck)

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I was shopping in the centre of town yesterday. Also got my hair cut and car serviced.

A few observations:

Car service - quite busy.

Hairdresser - quite busy.

Clothing stores - typical.

Departments stores - very quiet.

McDonalds - moderately busy.

Cafes - moderately busy.

Overall people around, pedestrians on street - bit quieter than I expected. Weather was quite nice.

Hardware - typical to busy.

Christmas decorations and novelty items - dead. Absolutely dead. All Christmas stuff already 40% off in one store and still not many customers and even they seemed to be looking, not buying.

My overall impression is that people are able to pay and will therefore buy things which have lasting usefulness such as clothes and they will keep getting hair cuts, cars serviced etc. They are still able to pay. But when it comes to simply spending for the sake of spending on seasonal Christmas items etc. there is a very noticeable lack of willingness to part with money.

Overall I think that people are being more cautious than in previous years but so far there is no major crisis. People will spend, but they are careful with what they buy.

The one thing which really stood out more than anything else was inflation. Every single thing I bought cost more than I was expecting without exception. In some cases I priced items with 100% inflation over the past two years and even the cost of getting my hair cut at the same place, probably still using the same scissors, is up 46% over the past 6 years. That's an annual inflation rate of 6.5% over the past 6 years in a fairly basic service. Interestingly, the cost of servicing the same car for a mid point service is also up at an annualised rate of around 6% over the past 5 years.

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I am sorry but this one raises my stuff. I earn 30K a year odd, I am a professional (or at least I thought I was until I realised that professional involved a techical degree).

What's your profession? Professionals have vocational qualifications that require several years of study after taking a first degree -- if you don't have such a professional qualification, you're not a professional.

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I am sorry but this one raises my stuff. I earn 30K a year odd, I am a professional (or at least I thought I was until I realised that professional involved a techical degree). I live in London. What do you want me to buy at 41 years old. A small studio shower only in a Zone 4 sink area that I can't walk home at night to while away my spinsterhood? And the truth is that I am better off renting than locking myself into that depressing scenario for the next 20 years. You own already, that is obvious and also fine - I don't envy you your luck, but sorry mate, you are a complacent tosser who doesn't know the first thing about having to manage limited resources and limited opportunities in housing.

EDIT:

And if I get a warning for the abuse I don't care. You have no goodwill toward anyone who doesn't have your means and I have no good will toward you. Viva la Revolution.

EDIT 2:

Oh and just by the way, 30K puts me just ABOVE the average wage, meaning that only 30% of the population earn in that range. If I can't afford to buy who the hell can?

I really think that a big problem these days is the amount of people buying on their own. I could not have bought my first house, in 1975, without my wife's salary taken into account on the mortgage. I didn't know anyone that bought single - people stayed with parents until they married, usually in early to mid 20s.

I know I've been shot down in flames for saying this before , and maybe it just relates to my own experience in the London area, but I wonder whether today's problems are really caused by social change i.e. the propensity to live singly?

I know that a 30k wage won't buy a place in London, but a couple on 50k between them, with a healthy deposit, might just afford a small place in the suburbs, which is all my wife and I could afford. (Thereafter inflation helped us enormously, which I accept fully)

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I really think that a big problem these days is the amount of people buying on their own. I could not have bought my first house, in 1975, without my wife's salary taken into account on the mortgage. I didn't know anyone that bought single - people stayed with parents until they married, usually in early to mid 20s.

I know I've been shot down in flames for saying this before , and maybe it just relates to my own experience in the London area, but I wonder whether today's problems are really caused by social change i.e. the propensity to live singly?

I know that a 30k wage won't buy a place in London, but a couple on 50k between them, with a healthy deposit, might just afford a small place in the suburbs, which is all my wife and I could afford. (Thereafter inflation helped us enormously, which I accept fully)

Way back in the distant past, only the mans wage was taken into account by mortgage lenders as the little wifey was expected to stay at home to look after him and raise his children, so the numbers of people buying on their own makes no difference.

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I don't know - 4 years ago a 30K salary at 3 times ratio would have bought your choice of lovely houses in my part of the World. Those same houses have tripled, even quadrupled, in price in the last 48 months. It is a BIG bubble!

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I really think that a big problem these days is the amount of people buying on their own.

Why?

As I've mentioned before, my father bought a four-bed house in the late 60s on a factory worker's salary while my mother was looking after five kids (and I'm not certain, but I believe they were an FTB, having rented up to that point). Why should a single person earning twice the national average wage with no kids not be able to do the same today?

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Way back in the distant past, only the mans wage was taken into account by mortgage lenders as the little wifey was expected to stay at home to look after him and raise his children, so the numbers of people buying on their own makes no difference.

That's wrong, where did you hear that from?. You could borrow a multiple of 1 salary and a smaller multiple of the other. Or a lower multiple of the combined salaries. Can't remember the exact multiples, but as I said I could not have bought without my wife's salary.

Why?

As I've mentioned before, my father bought a four-bed house in the late 60s on a factory worker's salary while my mother was looking after five kids (and I'm not certain, but I believe they were an FTB, having rented up to that point). Why should a single person earning twice the national average wage with no kids not be able to do the same today?

I find this impossible to answer, not knowing where he lived and how much he earned. Why do you think so many people were in Council houses, if things were that easy? Ever see a programme called Cathy come home, which led to the formation of the charity, Shelter? There was a terrible housing problem in the 60s.

Edited by Casual Observer

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That's wrong, where did you hear that from?. You could borrow a multiple of 1 salary and a smaller multiple of the other. Or a lower multiple of the combined salaries. Can't remember the exact multiples, but as I said I could not have bought without my wife's salary.

Did she continue to work the whole time or did she take time out to raise a family? I bet if it was the latter you still managed to pay your mortgage, even if it was a bit of a squeeze...

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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