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Davos 2014: Is Higher Education A Waste Of Money?

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25854214

There's something endearing about the Open Forum.

It provides a crumb of comfort for those who feel that the annual get-together of the rich and powerful at Davos is a bit elitist and exclusive.

The organisers of the World Economic Forum arrange for a handful of sessions near the conference centre that anyone can attend.

The audiences tend to be younger and have a higher number of women attendees than those in the main conference, not to mention more casually dressed and Swiss members.

So, where better than a Davos school hall to discuss whether going to university is a waste of money?

The debate was opened by Sean Rush, chief executive of JA Worldwide, which provides entrepreneurship and vocational training.

He said that he'd funded his four children in the US through a total of six degrees, at a total cost of $1.2m (£724,000). He also mentioned that he'd funded himself to get his third masters degree in his fifties and that he thought it had been worth the money (although he joked that he'd had to get rid of the dog to do it).

..

Daphne Koller, who is a professor of computer science at Stanford University and also co-founded the online education company Coursera, said combining online and face-to-face learning was the key to improving the quality of courses while also reducing the cost.

She pointed out that it could also be the answer to the education needs of developing countries. She said that India wants to increase its proportion of college graduates from 13% to 30%, but to do that in the traditional way would require the building of 1,500 new educational establishments, something that seems unlikely.

For the past two years, Coursera has been providing Moocs, which stands for Massive Open Online Courses.

The educational materials are free and students only have to pay if they want to take a qualification at the end of the course.

Paying $1m to put your kids through college? Not sure anyone would consider that value for money, but in US fees are based on what your parents can pay so he was clearly going to be suckered, but then again I'm sure his kids made the right contacts and it's a good way of ensuring they succeed. However for mere proles they are denied access to said education.

And as the NY Times stated now the rich kids qualify for the scholarships as the poor have to work and can't get the grades.

The system is rigged.

“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.” The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.

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Sure got tickerguy riled up, more than his already riled state...

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=227826

forget military-industrial complex, it should be called it the ' the military-industrial-prison-education-healthcare-btl-legal-benefits-corporate welfare-green-central bank-pensions complex'... just rolls off the tongue, dont it? Everyones on the take now.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25854214

Paying $1m to put your kids through college? Not sure anyone would consider that value for money, but in US fees are based on what your parents can pay so he was clearly going to be suckered, but then again I'm sure his kids made the right contacts and it's a good way of ensuring they succeed. However for mere proles they are denied access to said education.

And as the NY Times stated now the rich kids qualify for the scholarships as the poor have to work and can't get the grades.

The system is rigged.

Friend of mine came from a trailer park and got into Berkeley on some sort of scholarship. Another I know went to Colombia from the Bronx and had had a very tough and impoverished upbringing. Scholarships are clearly not the reserve of the rich.

In the US it is very difficult to get on without a degree. A masters is almost compulsory. I am surprised that more don't send their children to the UK for university for a better value education.

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Friend of mine came from a trailer park and got into Berkeley on some sort of scholarship. Another I know went to Colombia from the Bronx and had had a very tough and impoverished upbringing. Scholarships are clearly not the reserve of the rich.

In the US it is very difficult to get on without a degree. A masters is almost compulsory. I am surprised that more don't send their children to the UK for university for a better value education.

is it? i looked at a yank mates costs a few years back (before top up fees went from £3k a year to 9) and so long as he stayed 'in state' (or exchanged to a 'partner' university in another state) it was no pricier than the UK. plus his rent and living costs were lower than here.

ie in oregon in state is 1/3rd of out of state (about £5k vs £9k in the Uk)

http://oregonstate.edu/financialaid/cost-attendance

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No schooling is even worth the time let alone the money, and this holds from primary to Uni.

In the ol' days school was a conveyor belt for sure, but one that eventually fed you into a job that led to a real career, or via an apprenticeship, technical poly, art college or University, fed you into graduate intakes and more rarified professional occupations for those that wanted them.

That conveyor belts still there alright, except it picks your pocket as you go past and it leads nowhere but the bin.

Yeah l'll be sending my kid to primary school so his social development doesn't go full wierdoo, but secondary school?? We'll have to wait and see.

GCSE's aren't a pre-requisite for anything except A levels/College equiv. A levels aren't a pre-requisite for anything except Uni anymore. And Uni, well it used to go lead people places...but that's not true anymore either - so you have to wonder why bother even getting qualifications from the current education system? Why spend 7-10 years at these places, when you could be spending your time and money better elsewhere.

Sure l enjoyed University. Did my course prove to be the making of me in thought or deed? Nope. At today's prices, l'd rather give my future 18 year old 20 grand and tell them to go see the world.

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No schooling is even worth the time let alone the money, and this holds from primary to Uni.

In the ol' days school was a conveyor belt for sure, but one that eventually fed you into a job that led to a real career, or via an apprenticeship, technical poly, art college or University, fed you into graduate intakes and more rarified professional occupations for those that wanted them.

That conveyor belts still there alright, except it picks your pocket as you go past and it leads nowhere but the bin.

Yeah l'll be sending my kid to primary school so his social development doesn't go full wierdoo, but secondary school?? We'll have to wait and see.

GCSE's aren't a pre-requisite for anything except A levels/College equiv. A levels aren't a pre-requisite for anything except Uni anymore. And Uni, well it used to go lead people places...but that's not true anymore either - so you have to wonder why bother even getting qualifications from the current education system? Why spend 7-10 years at these places, when you could be spending your time and money better elsewhere.

Sure l enjoyed University. Did my course prove to be the making of me in thought or deed? Nope. At today's prices, l'd rather give my future 18 year old 20 grand and tell them to go see the world.

Yes I'm getting to the stage where I think any child who is not homeschooled or even better self-schooled is being taken for a ride.

I mean what is education for? There are no "jobs", automation is on the way like it or not. Either we live in a futre where we have a life of leisure with robots doing all the work, or a dystopian collapsed society where we work as slaves breaking rocks for the Chinese and living on subsistence farming.

The state education system is not really much of a preparation for either of those options!

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The state education system is not really much of a preparation for either of those options!

Exactly. Today's system is ill suited to where ever we are heading. It's already failing kids, and l mean that it is part of a false promise. It can't do anything but fail kids as there is nothing on which to hang success.

Its now seems to be mostly child care and increasingly to address parenting failures, sniffers for the useless peons in social services, and make work for the a goodly number of the public sector.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25854214

Paying $1m to put your kids through college? Not sure anyone would consider that value for money, but in US fees are based on what your parents can pay so he was clearly going to be suckered, but then again I'm sure his kids made the right contacts and it's a good way of ensuring they succeed. However for mere proles they are denied access to said education.

And as the NY Times stated now the rich kids qualify for the scholarships as the poor have to work and can't get the grades.

The system is rigged.

nice quote at the bottom, but surely they do seem rather boastful about their "system"

..as the saying goes, pride comes before a fall.

they are repeating exactly the same mistakes of hitler/stalin/mussolini etc etc......namely arrogance about their position.

they both thought that "leadership caste" is there to milk everybody else.

so they end up with heads blown off,chopped off,dragged around in iron cages for all the world to see.

...but they don't seem to get the hint.

how much more humiliating does it need to get before they "get it?"

...I guess next time the target should be their kids, before the attempt...(sorry that is inappropriate grammar...should read civic re-adjustment)...is applied to them.

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Just to add l would love my kid to go to another country in Europe to do his degree if it was ever to happen. If l had my time again this is what l would have done.

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You turn around and go right back into work for the socialist system that you went through or something.

Do you mean the socialist system in which nearly half the worlds wealth is in the hands of tiny elite?

Or is it the system where the bosses are now paid 128 times the pay of the average worker?

Or perhaps it's the one where productivity keeps rising but workers pay remains static for a decade?

Yep- socialism is everywhere you look these days.

Edited by wonderpup

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Do you mean the socialist system in which nearly half the worlds wealth is in the hands of tiny elite?

Or is it the system where the bosses are now paid 128 times the pay of the average worker?

Or perhaps it's the one where productivity keeps rising but workers pay remains static for a decade?

Yep- socialism is everywhere you look these days.

+1

:lol::blink:

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Yep- socialism is everywhere you look these days.

Most of the extraordinarily rich of recent years are extraordinarily rich because your beloved government picks the taxpayers' pockets and gives the money to them.

But, yes, obviously more and bigger government must be the answer.

Edited by MarkG

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Friend of mine came from a trailer park and got into Berkeley on some sort of scholarship. Another I know went to Colombia from the Bronx and had had a very tough and impoverished upbringing. Scholarships are clearly not the reserve of the rich.

In the US it is very difficult to get on without a degree. A masters is almost compulsory. I am surprised that more don't send their children to the UK for university for a better value education.

They send them to Canada instead - just as cheap and a lot closer.

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Just to add l would love my kid to go to another country in Europe to do his degree if it was ever to happen. If l had my time again this is what l would have done.

Why? Why get a degree?

From the age of 18 I ran my own businesses, travelled around (not gap year crap), worked bars and parties. Basically I had the time of my life and got an education you just can't beat, but no 'qualification'. So what. The look on the faces of people I meet who we're so convinced their life experience would be going to Uni, when they hear about what I did... Still, I get why I am kept out of many jobs because I don't have that degree, but the jobs I do get where they get me are worthwhile.

Still, in my teens, I got to have a paper round, do a Saturday job in a hairdressers and pick up waitressing shifts easily, I just don't think out younguns can do that growing up anymore.

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No schooling is even worth the time let alone the money, and this holds from primary to Uni.

In the ol' days school was a conveyor belt for sure, but one that eventually fed you into a job that led to a real career, or via an apprenticeship, technical poly, art college or University, fed you into graduate intakes and more rarified professional occupations for those that wanted them.

That conveyor belts still there alright, except it picks your pocket as you go past and it leads nowhere but the bin.

Yeah l'll be sending my kid to primary school so his social development doesn't go full wierdoo, but secondary school?? We'll have to wait and see.

GCSE's aren't a pre-requisite for anything except A levels/College equiv. A levels aren't a pre-requisite for anything except Uni anymore. And Uni, well it used to go lead people places...but that's not true anymore either - so you have to wonder why bother even getting qualifications from the current education system? Why spend 7-10 years at these places, when you could be spending your time and money better elsewhere.

Sure l enjoyed University. Did my course prove to be the making of me in thought or deed? Nope. At today's prices, l'd rather give my future 18 year old 20 grand and tell them to go see the world.

There's a big arbitrage between the cost of education at a school and getting a tutor.

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Higher Education is not a waste of money.

Had a great time drinking much cheap alcohol

Made great friends for life most of which im still in contact with.

I Learned some interesting stuff that enabled me to break into a solid career earning a top quartile wage.

I know a lot of people made a KILLING on their education... sure these are smart people who work hard but even so in many cases we are talking the trade of a lifetime.

As long as you performing a decent investment appraisal of any course In terms of what it gives you and what it costs. I cannot see how you can really loose.

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There's a big arbitrage between the cost of education at a school and getting a tutor.

You get a tiny fraction of a teachers time and focus, less so if you aren't a div - the bods (i.e. people with some sense in their head and motivation to learn) get no attention as they aren't the ones threatening to bring down the school rating.

I expect that a tutor could teach a day's worth of school learning in an hour. How much do you value the 70-80% of the students time then freed up for other learning or earning?

I expect you could share a tutor with other kids..not sure how close this ends up to being a free school!

Higher Education is not a waste of money.

Had a great time drinking much cheap alcohol

Made great friends for life most of which im still in contact with.

I Learned some interesting stuff that enabled me to break into a solid career earning a top quartile wage.

I know a lot of people made a KILLING on their education... sure these are smart people who work hard but even so in many cases we are talking the trade of a lifetime.

As long as you performing a decent investment appraisal of any course In terms of what it gives you and what it costs. I cannot see how you can really loose.

How would you know? I expect you graduated pre course fees. :rolleyes:

Yes agreed its a good time, expensive way of doing it when you could see the world on the same dime.

Yes agreed you make good friends/contacts for networking - note can also do this in any environment with half an excuse e.g. shared activity. In fact l forgot to mention this, when l went it was a good way of mixing people across the classes and social groups so a smelly hippy from a poor background would end up friends with people from private schools. That said its not so eclectic anymore, everyone looks the same (dress like townies - more like US colleges l think - lots of group think and fitting in with some vague mediocrity), and most come from the same background due to the massive fees now required (borrowed or not).

95 plus % of courses will offer you nothing at the end of it. Law and accountancy are holding on by their fingertips (actually accountancy is dead already) and there are people doing medicine who find there is no places open for them after graduation.. Engineering is one option but is badly paid in this shyster run country. Maths maybe? Seems to me people are either good at maths or they aren't (post A level), you don't really acquire it as a skill, just get given the opportunities to apply an innate talent.

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Higher Education is not a waste of money.

Had a great time drinking much cheap alcohol

Made great friends for life most of which im still in contact with.

I Learned some interesting stuff that enabled me to break into a solid career earning a top quartile wage.

I know a lot of people made a KILLING on their education... sure these are smart people who work hard but even so in many cases we are talking the trade of a lifetime.

As long as you performing a decent investment appraisal of any course In terms of what it gives you and what it costs. I cannot see how you can really loose.

Lose*, Mr.Education.

So you got this top quartile wage, yet you were on HPC annoyed with house prices, whilst renting.

You lucked out with new girl-friend's flat, selling to an over-payer who wanted to revert the house back to a house. Bought a penthouse, and have since packed in your IT support role job, (employment all together.. seeing as you said you were retired now early 30s) living on HPI sourced profits and investments there of?

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Education used to be free (assuming you had the smarts to get the A-level results required) and was most certainly worth doing as it opened up a load of higher level jobs to younger people.

Nowadays, you'll pay a packet to get an eduction and aside from a few specialised areas it just acts as a pre-requisite to any sort of decent job. Its function seems to be more about excluding people without rich parents who can afford to pay their education, from good jobs. Oh - and it generates export income (foreign students).

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Lose*, Mr.Education.

So you got this top quartile wage, yet you were on HPC annoyed with house prices, whilst renting.

You lucked out with new girl-friend's flat, selling to an over-payer who wanted to revert the house back to a house. Bought a penthouse, and have since packed in your IT support role job, (employment all together.. seeing as you said you were retired now early 30s) living on HPI sourced profits and investments there of?

Yes when I was younger there was a big house price bubble and it ended messily... you remember right ? when you are young and undrpaid houses tend to look expensive. When you look back though.. not so much.

I wouldn't describe any of my profits as HPI based... besides the wife regards all those profits as hers. The lady that bought the house got a bargain and she knows it. I'm currently making a living from crude oil. but yes I did find my computer science degree was very useful and would certainly recommend it.

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but yes I did find my computer science degree was very useful and would certainly recommend it.

For what? Not knocking it as a subject but computing occupations got commoditised whilst you weren't looking. Now l expect you have a wealth of experience which separates you from the boys (Indian boys). Few after you will get the same opportunities.

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1390588961[/url]' post='1102455477']

For what? Not knocking it as a subject but computing occupations got commoditised whilst you weren't looking. Now l expect you have a wealth of experience which separates you from the boys (Indian boys). Few after you will get the same opportunities.

Hmm well while it's true that if have simple stuff you can outsource it... The problem is that Indian IT workers have very little natural initiative and poor natural communication skills also India has a 10% inflation rate... So the 'arb' if not closed already it is closing pretty rapidly. The Eastern Europeans are the new arb trade... But there are horror stories out there.. I knew one guy in charge of 200 Chinese IT people who was of the opinion that they should all be fired..

If you want people to move deck chairs on the titanic they can do it all day everyday... But if you want someone to build relationships.. Think outside The box and be creative etc..

There is a lot of productivity that can carved out by a skilled terminal jockey. Simply put the ratio between the number of computers and computer science grads means there is still plenty of work to go round. And that's kind of the reason I got into it... Just eat ..for example.. 90 times earnings FFS...

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Hmm well while it's true that if have simple stuff you can outsource it... The problem is that Indian IT workers have very little natural initiative and poor natural communication skills also India has a 10% inflation rate... So the 'arb' if not closed already it is closing pretty rapidly. The Eastern Europeans are the new arb trade... But there are horror stories out there.. I knew one guy in charge of 200 Chinese IT people who was of the opinion that they should all be fired..

If you want people to move deck chairs on the titanic they can do it all day everyday... But if you want someone to build relationships.. Think outside The box and be creative etc..

There is a lot of productivity that can carved out by a skilled terminal jockey. Simply put the ratio between the number of computers and computer science grads means there is still plenty of work to go round. And that's kind of the reason I got into it... Just eat ..for example.. 90 times earnings FFS...

There`s no `natural` involved. It`s training and experience. They may not be there yet in any numbers, but that time will come.

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