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What Do We Do With A Problem Like Stephen Gough?

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anybody watch the BBC doco about Stephen Gough last night?

it's on iplayer for a week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039086d

I must admit to warming to Mr. Gough. He reminds me of the late Brian Haw; both cantankerous and stubborn individuals who simply refuse to play along in a world of supine conformists.

unto death.

These are the kind of people who change attitudes.

It is of course ridiculous that a man is repeatedly imprisoned for the "crime" of displaying his natural state.

Just as people being imprisoned for growing plants or exercising free speech.

The best the BBC could muster against him was to ambush him walking past a group of school children. "Think of the kids" wailed the reporter!

But as he commented, so what? So they saw a naked man. What of it?

Emperor's NO clothes.

At this stage of history his protest is an important one, imo.

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anybody watch the BBC doco about Stephen Gough last night?

it's on iplayer for a week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039086d

I must admit to warming to Mr. Gough. He reminds me of the late Brian Haw; both cantankerous and stubborn individuals who simply refuse to play along in a world of supine conformists.

unto death.

These are the kind of people who change attitudes.

It is of course ridiculous that a man is repeatedly imprisoned for the "crime" of displaying his natural state.

Just as people being imprisoned for growing plants or exercising free speech.

The best the BBC could muster against him was to ambush him walking past a group of school children. "Think of the kids" wailed the reporter!

But as he commented, so what? So they saw a naked man. What of it?

Emperor's NO clothes.

At this stage of history his protest is an important one, imo.

I thought it was a bit sad really. The journos I sit with at work talk about him whenever he goes to court in quite a warm way. From this I rather had the impression he was a chipper eccentric type, but the show revealed a sad, somewhat disturbed individual. He needs some therapy really. I felt very sorry for his wife and kids.

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I thought it was a bit sad really. The journos I sit with at work talk about him whenever he goes to court in quite a warm way. From this I rather had the impression he was a chipper eccentric type, but the show revealed a sad, somewhat disturbed individual. He needs some therapy really. I felt very sorry for his wife and kids.

man refuses to conform to arbitrary convention == needs prison/ therapy.

that's the subtext of his protest.

thanks for illustrating it.

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man refuses to conform to arbitrary convention == needs prison/ therapy.

that's the subtext of his protest.

thanks for illustrating it.

Might have helped if he'd been prescribed ritalin as a child.

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In many places in South America, Asia or Africa he would be the norm.

I imagine if someone tried similar in Holland or Denmark - they would barely raise eyebrows.

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The best the BBC could muster against him was to ambush him walking past a group of school children. "Think of the kids" wailed the reporter!

I'm not sure I'd dare to walk past a load of the local schoolkids naked..

Really can't see any reason to hassle the guy.

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man refuses to conform to arbitrary convention == needs prison/ therapy.

that's the subtext of his protest.

thanks for illustrating it.

I didn't say anything about therapy to make him conform. When all I knew about him was the nature of his protest I thought he was kind of cool. Did you watch the program? Did he seem happy to you? Healthy? I just felt sorry for him and thought he needed proper help.

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I didn't say anything about therapy to make him conform. When all I knew about him was the nature of his protest I thought he was kind of cool. Did you watch the program? Did he seem happy to you? Healthy? I just felt sorry for him and thought he needed proper help.

He had just spent 6.5 years in solitary confinement in a semi-foreign prison. That's not going to do anybody much good. He looked a lot happier and healthier in the video of him doing his walk before he was imprisoned.

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Well, I'm actually against him wandering naked as a cloud, because I find it quite handy to be able to identify naked man in street = nutter I should keep myself away from.

seriously, though, not masturbating in public is just a convention. Where do you stop as a libertarian?

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If he wants to walk around naked then there are plenty of places in this country that he can do that.

Instead he chooses to do it where he knows that he will offend people in order to make a point.

The sentences that he has received have however been horrendously disproportionate to these offences.

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If he wants to walk around naked then there are plenty of places in this country that he can do that.

Instead he chooses to do it where he knows that he will offend people in order to make a point.

The sentences that he has received have however been horrendously disproportionate to these offences.

The idea that the natural state of the human body can be offensive is pretty ridiculous.

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The idea that the natural state of the human body can be offensive is pretty ridiculous.

In your personal opinion, try taking a poll on how ok people think it is and you will find yourself in a minority.

Sex is natural, is it ok for somebody to walk around with a still from a porn film on their t-shirt?

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Well, I'm actually against him wandering naked as a cloud, because I find it quite handy to be able to identify naked man in street = nutter I should keep myself away from.

seriously, though, not masturbating in public is just a convention. Where do you stop as a libertarian?

there are precedants in that respect:

Diogenes of Sinope

Diogenes taught by living example. He tried to demonstrate that wisdom and happiness belong to the man who is independent of society and that civilization is regressive. He scorned not only family and political social organization, but also property rights and reputation. He even rejected normal ideas about human decency. Diogenes is said to have eaten in the marketplace,[42] urinated on some people who insulted him,[43] defecated in the theatre,[44] masturbated in public, and pointed at people with his middle finger.[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

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In your personal opinion, try taking a poll on how ok people think it is and you will find yourself in a minority.

Sex is natural, is it ok for somebody to walk around with a still from a porn film on their t-shirt?

Many of our famous museums have pictures and pottery of just that. Children are taken by their schools to see them.

I also notice on this forum and other places i have looked - that the walking near schools is where it becomes too much for many.

These would be the same schools that showed me videos of naked people playing badminton nap part of 'Sex Education'

Think about it - the whole thing is totally ridiculous. If he is doing nothing sexual - then just leave him be.

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Many of our famous museums have pictures and pottery of just that. Children are taken by their schools to see them.

I also notice on this forum and other places i have looked - that the walking near schools is where it becomes too much for many.

These would be the same schools that showed me videos of naked people playing badminton nap part of 'Sex Education'

Think about it - the whole thing is totally ridiculous. If he is doing nothing sexual - then just leave him be.

Do a poll then.

If you were serving on the tills in a supermarket would you want him as a customer?

I entirely agree with the theory but I refer you to the Russian double toilets thread. There are some perfectly natural things that we do not want to see other people doing; and walking around naked in everyday situations is one of them IMO.

Stephen Gough and his defenders remind me of college students (I include myself) who after too many late nights reading some philosophy tract develop some very odd, if philiosophically justifiable, attitudes. Usually rapidly knocked out of them by their mates telling to stop being such a prat.

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Do a poll then.

If you were serving on the tills in a supermarket would you want him as a customer?

I entirely agree with the theory but I refer you to the Russian double toilets thread. There are some perfectly natural things that we do not want to see other people doing; and walking around naked in everyday situations is one of them IMO.

Stephen Gough and his defenders remind me of college students (I include myself) who after too many late nights reading some philosophy tract develop some very odd, if philiosophically justifiable, attitudes. Usually rapidly knocked out of them by their mates telling to stop being such a prat.

Can honestly say I wouldn't care if I was a cashier and served him, as long as he was clean.

I don't actually think it's natural to be naked in the UK climate, but I still don't care about it. I might find him more offensive if he was obese, so I guess we all have our prejudices.....

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Next time some self-righteous busybody complains of oppressive dress codes in Saudi Arabia, you can point out that a UK country is no better. At least we English have been (in this instance) more tolerant.

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Well, I'm actually against him wandering naked as a cloud, because I find it quite handy to be able to identify naked man in street = nutter I should keep myself away from.

seriously, though, not masturbating in public is just a convention. Where do you stop as a libertarian?

I'm probably not going to watch the programme as I'm not that interested. So can't comment if he's mad or bad.

For me, it stops when it causes harm to others - rather than simple offense. As a society, however, we may adopt other commonly accepted conventions simply because most people agree on them.

Wandering around naked would seem to be an edge case. It might be interesting to poll the nation on what % of people find it unacceptable. My guess with things like naked bike rides, nudist beaches etc that the British population has changed a lot in its attitudes over the last century to public nudity.

There is also the tradition of the great British eccentric. We do seem quite capable as a nation to simply turning a blind eye to off the wall behaviour which seems generally harmless - and I think it's one of our strengths. Sometimes it even becomes a socially acceptable norm. The US for all of its cries of freedom for the individual seems to be a much more conservative nation behaviour-wise.

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On my phone so can't set up a poll.

As for working on a checkout. I did for almost 5 years. I can assure you a naked but otherwise pleasant and polite bloke - is most definitely preferable to many of the scum i had to serve on a daily basis.

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