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NatterJackToad

Pcn (Parking Car Notice)

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So I have received a PCN from a company calling themselves CPO.

I did park in an empty car park in a disabled bay.

It would have been there for about 30 minutes.

I didn’t realise it was a disabled bay.

Anyway, it’s £100 and I do not want to pay it.

What is the worst that can happen if I don't pay it?

If I am sent to court, what is the worst that can happen there if I am told to pay the fine. Is it just £100 or are there court charges?

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So I have received a PCN from a company calling themselves CPO.

I did park in an empty car park in a disabled bay.

It would have been there for about 30 minutes.

I didn’t realise it was a disabled bay.

Anyway, it’s £100 and I do not want to pay it.

What is the worst that can happen if I don't pay it?

If I am sent to court, what is the worst that can happen there if I am told to pay the fine. Is it just £100 or are there court charges?

Can't you just ignore it? How can there be court charges if it is a private dispute over private land? I have no idea, don't take any advice from me etc.

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So I have received a PCN from a company calling themselves CPO.

I did park in an empty car park in a disabled bay.

It would have been there for about 30 minutes.

I didn’t realise it was a disabled bay.

Anyway, it’s £100 and I do not want to pay it.

What is the worst that can happen if I don't pay it?

If I am sent to court, what is the worst that can happen there if I am told to pay the fine. Is it just £100 or are there court charges?

Just write them a nice letter telling them you don't know who was driving at the time. You could find out, but it might take some time..... you charge £100 for this service.

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If you are going to go down the court route you'll need evidence. You are going to have to go back and take pictures showing why it's not clearly signed as a disabled bay etc...

But I am happy losing in court. If the charges are just £100. If I have to pay court fees then I wouldn’t let it go that far.

I don’t think it would get that far, but just wanted to find out peoples advice and experiences with these parasites.

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When its a private company i think the standard process is to send them a letter asking them to contact the driver of the vehicle at the time. They will continue sending threatening letters but will eventually give up.

I would check this out though.

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It used to be the case with Parking Charge Notices that the onus was on the Company to prove who was driving at the time. They used to send out invoices to the Registered Keeper, threatening disease and pestilence if the owner refused to pay. At that time, you could simply ignore any threats, even ones from the Recovery Agents. However, in October 2012, following pressure from the Parking Companies to close this loophole,, the Government changed the rules, putting the onus on the keeper to take responsibility.

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I've had a few of these mickey mouse tickets over the past few years, the best advice is to ignore them completely.

They'll huff and puff via a few increasingly desperate threatening letters, and then they'll go away.

If you reply to them you give their claim some legitimacy in their eyes.

Check the web theres tons of advice, you'll be hard pressed to find an example where these leeches have actually took someone to court, nevermind won

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I've succesfully ignored a PCN. I got a few letters then they gave up.

I think the most they 'could' get from you if they went to court is whatever you should have paid to park there (ie £1.60) , so it's not worth the expense.

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You used to be able to simply ignore these. I'm not sure how true that still is. I read up on it a couple of months ago - expecting a mickey mouse PCN but the company instead sent me a letter saying "we'll let you off this time" so I never completed my research.

There is an appeals process that may be worth following as, if it gets knocked back at this point (and many do) then the company won't pursue it. The appeal also costs the company money which makes all the "war on the motorist" paranoids very happy.

Not sure what happens if the appeal fails as the company will still have to pursue the keeper under civil law for damages - which, even if the case is won, will be very, very minor and not the ten zillion quid plus prison time that they threaten.

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Current advice is not to ignore these notices, but to appeal to the private parking company on the following grounds.

1) The recipient of the notice did not agree to enter into any legal contract with the private parking company, and

2) The amount claimed is not a reasonable pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

The private parking company will automatically reject the appeal but provide a POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) authorisation code.

Go to POPLA's website http://www.popla.org.uk/, enter the authorisation code and the same two grounds as the basis of the appeal and it will be upheld and the Charge Notice cancelled.

Where the private parking companies fall down in law is by relying on notices saying "If you park here you agree to pay £25". One party cannot tell another party what they agree to.

These people are just car clampers who have been forced to take a less thuggish approach, I have absolutely no hesitation in messing them around as much as possible

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Iv had 3 of these over the years and family a few more.Never paid any and never gone to court.Nobody ever does because its easy to defend.

First you say you weren't driving the car that day and that you want the company to send you photos of the car parked where they said and photos and name of the driver.You also want photos of the sign that says about the parking regs in that car park.

You also say that the demand is not a fine but an invoice and you would like them to forward you a copy of the contract they had with you that you agreed to.

They will fob you off and send more demands,you then say unless they can tell you who was driving the car so you can investigate then any more letters will be classed as demanding money with menace.That instead they should launch a court case.

Youl never hear from them again unless you get an auto demand at some point,6 month,a year etc.

The reason they don't take these to court is its so hard to prove.Plus the odd ones that have won have only got a few pounds as the comp/fine is based on the loss the company suffered and that is based on what the space could be rented for in the time you were in it.So it might be £3.

That's why they never take people to court.

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Current advice is not to ignore these notices, but to appeal to the private parking company on the following grounds.

1) The recipient of the notice did not agree to enter into any legal contract with the private parking company, and

2) The amount claimed is not a reasonable pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

The private parking company will automatically reject the appeal but provide a POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) authorisation code.

Go to POPLA's website http://www.popla.org.uk/, enter the authorisation code and the same two grounds as the basis of the appeal and it will be upheld and the Charge Notice cancelled.

Where the private parking companies fall down in law is by relying on notices saying "If you park here you agree to pay £25". One party cannot tell another party what they agree to.

These people are just car clampers who have been forced to take a less thuggish approach, I have absolutely no hesitation in messing them around as much as possible

That's right Harry,,thanks for putting it better than I did.The main fact as you point out is its not a fine but an invoice and they have to prove a contract existed between the two, and as you say one party can not simply tell another what they agree to.

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Careful. My local shopping centre has a parking outfit that is notoriously successful in bringing this stuff to court. The "entrepreneur" who owns it runs the cases himself without lawyers and blasts through all the usual arguments you see on t'intertubes.

It's small claims, so if you lose you cover the court admin + the costs depending on whether you've been unreasonable in defending the claim.

You can ring them up before the claim issues to plead the poor mouth and settle for £50.

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Does that strategy work for him?

Do judges (or whatever they have at small claims) accept a sign as a fair contract binding on both parties? And that £100 reflects actual loss?

I'm very, very surprised if he's really having success on that route. Or is he just banking on the other party not turning up? Or, even, is he bluffing that he has a high win-rate? Surely, if it were that good all the company's would do it?

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Of course, if the PCN is issued by a Local Authority, then it is enforceable.

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Careful. My local shopping centre has a parking outfit that is notoriously successful in bringing this stuff to court. The "entrepreneur" who owns it runs the cases himself without lawyers and blasts through all the usual arguments you see on t'intertubes.

It's small claims, so if you lose you cover the court admin + the costs depending on whether you've been unreasonable in defending the claim.

You can ring them up before the claim issues to plead the poor mouth and settle for £50.

Ha, ha I was thinking the same. If you were willing to throw some money at it you could make people choose to pay as the default response.

Of course, I would only ticket German cars :lol:

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Current advice is not to ignore these notices, but to appeal to the private parking company on the following grounds.

1) The recipient of the notice did not agree to enter into any legal contract with the private parking company, and

2) The amount claimed is not a reasonable pre-estimate of any loss incurred.

The private parking company will automatically reject the appeal but provide a POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) authorisation code.

Go to POPLA's website http://www.popla.org.uk/, enter the authorisation code and the same two grounds as the basis of the appeal and it will be upheld and the Charge Notice cancelled.

Where the private parking companies fall down in law is by relying on notices saying "If you park here you agree to pay £25". One party cannot tell another party what they agree to.

These people are just car clampers who have been forced to take a less thuggish approach, I have absolutely no hesitation in messing them around as much as possible

UPDATE..

this worked!!

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Top stuff - information is POWER!

As everyone is against the private ticket issuers then I assume it will okay for me to park my car on your drive for a few hours if I need to? Without asking naturally.

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