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Experts Warn Of Rise In Gay ‘Slamming’

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/experts-warn-of-rise-in-gay-slamming-9069571.html

Three times as many gay and bisexual men in London inject drugs than in England as a whole, according to new analysis, which also found that four times as many use crystal meth in the capital than across the rest of the country.

The figures, compiled by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM), reinforce experts’ warnings of a “meteoric” rise in the number of gay men injecting drugs such as mephedrone, GHB or crystal meth, in the capital. The trend – known as “slamming” – gives users a more intense high and commonly takes places at sex parties which can go on for several days, according to experts; they warn that the trend could be linked to a disturbing rise in HIV infection rates.

The number of men injecting in a sexual context quadrupled between 2011 and 2013, according to Antidote, the UK’s only lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender drug and alcohol support service. More than 60 per cent of their clients injected drugs last year. This is double the number who injected in 2010. Nine years ago, fewer than 1 per cent were injecting drugs.

Antidote has been “overwhelmed” by men presenting with health conditions from the sexualised use of these drugs – which increase libido while decreasing sexual inhibition. Reports of men sharing needles and sleeping with, on average, five to 10 partners per drug-using episode, have rung alarm bells.

“It’s become somewhat destigmatised,” said Antidote’s David Stuart, who is believed to be the country’s first drug counsellor specialising in sexual health. “You can go on Grindr or other apps ... and you can see the world of slamming is glamorised. A man will say: ‘Yeah, I slam.’ But if you ask him if he’s an addicted drug user, he’ll say: ‘F**k off’.”

The authorities – who are used to seeing very low percentages of injection use among gay men – are taking notice. Councils across London have commissioned their own studies to be carried out into the “chem-sex” trend. Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham are funding the LSHTM to analyse European data relating to their boroughs and carry out interviews.

Anecdotally, experts believe this is a key to a trend in rising HIV infection levels. Diagnoses among men who have sex with men continue to rise and reached an all-time high in 2012; 3,250 were recorded. London had the highest number of new diagnoses (1,450).

“If you go to any heroin addict on the corner, they’ll know where to get clean needles from,” Mr Stuart said. “But if you ask a gay man at a sex party, he won’t know. Diseases can spread through careless injecting.”

Jason (not his real name), a 37-year-old gay man from London, started using crystal meth four years ago, after his 11-year relationship ended. It improved his sex life and soon he started injecting it and going on three-day sex “benders”. Now he has hepatitis C and is HIV positive, which he blames on his drug use.

“Sometimes, I was having the best time of my life, for a day or so, but it always ended up being really freaky, paranoid or twisted … I’m OK now, but I still struggle to have normal sex without [crystal meth],” he said.

Crystal meth increases libido???

http://chemistry.about.com/od/medicalhealth/a/crystalmeth.htm

Common Immediate Effects

Euphoria

Increased energy and alertness

Diarrhea and nausea

Excessive sweating

Loss of appetite, insomnia, tremors, jaw-clenching

Agitation, irritability, talkativeness, panic, compulsive fascination with repetitive tasks, violence, confusion

Increased libido

Increased blood pressure, body temperature, heart rate, blood sugar levels, bronchodilation

Constriction of the walls of the arterties

In pregnant and nursing women, methampetamine crosses the placenta and is secreted in breast milk

Effects Associated with Chronic Use

Tolerance (needing more of the drug to get the same effect)

Drug craving

Temporary weight loss

Withdrawal symptoms including depression and anhedonia

"Meth Mouth" where teeth rapidly decay and fall out

Drug-related psychosis (may last for months or years after drug use is discontinued)

Effects of Overdose

Brain damage

Sensation of flesh crawling (formication)

Paranoia, hallucinations, delusions, tension headache

Muscle breakdown (rhabdomyolysis) which can lead to kidney damage or failure

Death due to stroke, cardiac arrest or elevated body temperature (hyperthermia)

Is this a big a problem as they are making out or is this just a small number of gay men getting involved in this type of lifestyle?

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/experts-warn-of-rise-in-gay-slamming-9069571.html

Crystal meth increases libido???

http://chemistry.about.com/od/medicalhealth/a/crystalmeth.htm

Is this a big a problem as they are making out or is this just a small number of gay men getting involved in this type of lifestyle?

Dunno......but best not criticise the behaviour it or you will be accused of that crime called 'homophobia'.

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It's not just bank chairmen then.

I read in the 90s of somebody having a moment of clarity at a New Year's Eve party at a gay nightclub in London and describing the rampant and overt drug use everywhere he looked as like a vision of hell.

So there has for at least twenty years been a section of gay men that are heavily into drugs and the drugs have moved with the time.

That said the Co-op chairman was hardly how I pictured the drug crazed sex fiend that was revealed by his texts so hard drugs are not necessarily a death sentence.

Edit: remembered the 90s drug was amyl nitrate, why it was so obvious was people had doused handkerchiefs in it and had draped them over their faces.

Personally I find nightclubs a vision of hell anyway, dreadful places.

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Of course, nobody is actually using the millions of £s worth of drugs that come into the UK. Its all stored in bottom drawers and old garages.

Has been for the last 100 years.

Before that, it was legal.

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It's not just bank chairmen then.

I read in the 90s of somebody having a moment of clarity at a New Year's Eve party at a gay nightclub in London and describing the rampant and overt drug use everywhere he looked as like a vision of hell.

So there has for at least twenty years been a section of gay men that are heavily into drugs and the drugs have moved with the time.

That said the Co-op chairman was hardly how I pictured the drug crazed sex fiend that was revealed by his texts so hard drugs are not necessarily a death sentence.

Edit: remembered the 90s drug was amyl nitrate, why it was so obvious was people had doused handkerchiefs in it and had draped them over their faces.

Personally I find nightclubs a vision of hell anyway, dreadful places.

Me too! Are there "day clubs" for the nocturnal, and shift workers?

Was that "somebody", a friend of yours Frank? ;)

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Me too! Are there "day clubs" for the nocturnal, and shift workers?

Was that "somebody", a friend of yours Frank? ;)

Not unless they had a secret career as a journalist under a pseudonym and were a secret frequenter of gay clubs! Anything's possible I suppose.

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I do suspect that drug use in the gay community is more prevalent. I have absolutely no evidence to back that up other than that from my own eyes in my youth.

But then the gay community nightlife is somewhat smaller in scope. While the 20-something straight lads go and get pissed at the local Ritzy's nightclub in town, gay clubbers have fewer venues to select from. I'd frequently see the same people in clubs in London week in, week out who lived as far away as Colchester, Rochester etc. (stops short of creating a list of the locations of all the people I've dated) - "please, tell me it can't be him, he's here too - quick, hide" ;)

So in this respect I presume a trend flows more rapidly.

We know that unprotected a-n-a-l sex carries a potentially greater risk of transmission of certain diseases like AIDS. But then we're (I probably speak for most on this board) of an age where we saw all the programmes on TV. Our youth of today did not.

I'm not averse to drugs by any means and what people do with their own bodies is surely up to them.

But IMO you have to be fairly stupid or desperate to start injecting yourself. You also have to be fairly stupid (or, perhaps, in context, "out of it") to have unprotected sex with someone you didn't know, and you'd have to be fairly despicable to partake in such acts with others when you yourself know that you may be (not tested) or are a risk because of your previous, possibly ill-judged encounters. Which surely all holds true regardless of sexuality.

Breaking Bad must have had it all wrong :)

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I do suspect that drug use in the gay community is more prevalent. I have absolutely no evidence to back that up other than that from my own eyes in my youth.

But then the gay community nightlife is somewhat smaller in scope. While the 20-something straight lads go and get pissed at the local Ritzy's nightclub in town, gay clubbers have fewer venues to select from. I'd frequently see the same people in clubs in London week in, week out who lived as far away as Colchester, Rochester etc. (stops short of creating a list of the locations of all the people I've dated) - "please, tell me it can't be him, he's here too - quick, hide" ;)

I suspect this is the main reason, most places have a small or no gay scene. If it sees an influx of visitors then I would imagine they have to some degree a level of escapist mentality. So basically a mix of large numbers, going out of their way to have a good time in a place which in affords increased opportunity to buy and take drugs. Equally if you are a dealer why bother hanging around in Peterborough or Barnsley when you have a mass of people in London.

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The HIV/AIDS heretics like Peter Duesberg postulated that real reason for AIDS was out-of-control drug abuse; both of recreational drugs and antibiotics as prophylactics, somewhat borne out by the discovery that one of the original AIDS marker diseases, Karposi's sarcoma, is linked to nitrate (popper) use and a different causative virus (not HIV). The gay rights people howled, this theory was ridiculed and another theory for the cause of AIDS researched.

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The HIV/AIDS heretics like Peter Duesberg postulated that real reason for AIDS was out-of-control drug abuse; both of recreational drugs and antibiotics as prophylactics, somewhat borne out by the discovery that one of the original AIDS marker diseases, Karposi's sarcoma, is linked to nitrate (popper) use and a different causative virus (not HIV). The gay rights people howled, this theory was ridiculed and another theory for the cause of AIDS researched.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

The conventional story is this: Kaposi's sarcoma is correlated with AIDS because the virus that causes KS (HHV-8) can only manifest the condition in people with weak immune systems. People with weak immune systems for non-AIDS-related reasons (e.g. taking immunosuppressants) can also get KS. Amyl nitrate use is associated with sexual behaviour that increases the spread of both HHV-8 and HIV-1.

Are you proposing an actual disease mechanism here or just pointing out a couple of weak correlations and waggling your eyebrows a bit?

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I don't understand what you're trying to say.

The conventional story is this: Kaposi's sarcoma is correlated with AIDS because the virus that causes KS (HHV-8) can only manifest the condition in people with weak immune systems. People with weak immune systems for non-AIDS-related reasons (e.g. taking immunosuppressants) can also get KS. Amyl nitrate use is associated with sexual behaviour that increases the spread of both HHV-8 and HIV-1.

Are you proposing an actual disease mechanism here or just pointing out a couple of weak correlations and waggling your eyebrows a bit?

And if the weakened immune system is due to drug use, not HIV?

The OP's article hints that excessive drug use may be a causative factor in AIDS. That is the position long taken by the likes of dissenters Peter Duesberg and Gordon Stewart biography, the latter was a consultant epidemiologist to the WHO on AIDS. Research into the possibility seems to have been rejected in favour of HIV as the only causative agent, after noisy protests from a vociferous gay movement.

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And if the weakened immune system is due to drug use, not HIV?

So which recreational drugs have been shown to irreversibly weaken the immune system (specifically, a drop in CD4 counts to less than 200 cells/mm3) in the absence of HIV?

If you are going to propose an alternative cause for AIDS, this is the test your theory must pass.

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So which recreational drugs have been shown to irreversibly weaken the immune system (specifically, a drop in CD4 counts to less than 200 cells/mm3) in the absence of HIV?

If you are going to propose an alternative cause for AIDS, this is the test your theory must pass.

I'm not trying to posit a theory. I'm only pointing out that other possible causes of immune deficiency (or co-factors of immune supression, possibly) were removed from the research arena which was only focussed on the HIV model thereafter. This new information suggests that whether or not HIV is a necessary pre-condition of AIDS, there could be a strong linkage to recreational drugs. Which is what Peter Duesberg has said all along - although he also maintains that HIV is not a necessary precondition. This refusal to research the possible drug connection seems to have been political, in face of a violent "don't criticise our lifestyle" outcry by gay lobbyists.

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This new information suggests that whether or not HIV is a necessary pre-condition of AIDS, there could be a strong linkage to recreational drugs.

I'm sure there is a strong "linkage" between AIDS and recreational drugs, that's what the whole blimmin' thread is about. A significant number of young gay men are taking a lot of recreational drugs, sharing needles and shagging each other in not particularly safe ways. This spreads HIV, which causes AIDS. "Linkage" explained.

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What about a time before AIDS was 'discovered' and lots of people did lots of recreational drugs. Did lots of the upper class from the roaring 20's die of immune type diseases ? Honest question.

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What about a time before AIDS was 'discovered' and lots of people did lots of recreational drugs. Did lots of the upper class from the roaring 20's die of immune type diseases ? Honest question.

They weren't taking nitrates and prophylactic antibiotics for a start. I'm not so sure there was much intra-venous in those days, but Charlie Chaplin did have "white nose powder" in of his films IIRC. There was quite a bit of Syphilis still around in those days - the great pretender. People didn't like to be marked as having died from syphilis or the rather toxic remedies available then, so their private doctors would often "doctor" the cause of death to another disease. I'm sure alcoholism and drug related deaths were also similarly massaged. A similar trick was done by our government over the excess death rates during the "great smog" years around 1952, initially blaming the deaths on an influenza outbreak rather than air pollution. They have since been revised....

This is a bit like AIDS - you don't die of AIDS, you die of some other disease enabled by the immune deficiency, but in this case, you are always put down as an AIDS death, not pneumonia or tuberculosis or whatever; EXCEPT if you die of organ-related failure linked to drug regimes, in which case you have "organ failure".

Another good example of this is in Daniel Defoe's book "journal of the plague year". Wasn't good publicity for a parish to put down "plague" on the death certificate, so the numbers of "scarlet fever" and "griping of the bowels" shot up, until the excess deaths became too highly visible.

Ed. I'm fairly sure that suicide rates are similarly "managed". I personally know of one open verdict, that was almost certainly a helium suicide. A GP friend once told me that suicide was avoided as a cause of death on certificates for insurance reasons; better the family got a payout and were spared the embarrassment.

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They weren't taking nitrates and prophylactic antibiotics for a start.

So are you claiming amyl nitrite and antibiotics cause AIDS? You make it sound like mainstream scientists are totally unreasonable for not investigating alternative explanations for AIDS but you won't actually come out and say what those alternative explanations are.

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I have to say, this thread is successfully describing what could be one of my worst possible nightmares. Being totally prone while some stranger ar*se rapes me. Colour me prejudiced here.

(cue 'he doth protesteth too much' - type comments ;))

Let that be a lesson to you kids. Don't take drugs.

I'm straight but have been absolutely off my face on booze and poppers in a gay club. Nobody raped me, it was fine.

As for the topic at hand, I once spent an entertaining few evenings reading as much of Dan Savage's back catalog of Savage Love columns as I could find- and in amongst all the amusing columns about confused Jock wannabe pole smokers and fart obsessives there were several very heartfelt pieces about risky drug fuelled sex causing a new plague of HIV infections. This was probably 5+ years ago so it's not a new phenomenon, at least not in the US.

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I lead a sheltered middle class married life, so I find it hard to pontificate about modern sexual mores, but I must say that I am very concerned about the rising rates of HIV infection mentioned in the article. HIV isn't a death sentence like it used to but it's still a punishing regime of anti-retrovirals if you want to keep living. Maybe it is time for another hard hitting public information film...

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I have to say, this thread is successfully describing what could be one of my worst possible nightmares. Being totally prone while some stranger ar*se rapes me. Colour me prejudiced here.

(cue 'he doth protesteth too much' - type comments ;))

Let that be a lesson to you kids. Don't take drugs.

Did you watch prison dramas as a child?

I have a repeated nightmare which wakes me up every time, which is when I fall off the deck of a ship and get sucked into the propeller at the back.

I'd say both are about as likely to happen as each other ;)

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Corevalue - intravenous drug use was common back then.

The upper classes used to sit watching opera - and inject heroin into their thighs towards the end.

They also used to sell heroin sweets in the chemist to give to your child to help then stop crying and to sleep :lol:

Saw a very interesting programme about all this.

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Corevalue - intravenous drug use was common back then.

The upper classes used to sit watching opera - and inject heroin into their thighs towards the end.

They also used to sell heroin sweets in the chemist to give to your child to help then stop crying and to sleep :lol:

Saw a very interesting programme about all this.

Jesse Boots the chemist had a very good line in laudanum, opiates in alcohol. very good for stopping the babies crying.

We know from Conan Doyle's writing that quite a bit of opiate abuse went on. There did not seem to be a major health problem directly associated with it, but here's the rub: people were dying of diseases like TB and pneumonia at much higher rates than now. These diseases now would be considered AIDS related if you were HIV+. Perhaps the opiate users back then did have compromised immune systems, but we've never researched the possibility of immune degradation due to use of non-pharma grade drugs, as it was taken off the agenda for political reasons.

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we've never researched the possibility of immune degradation due to use of non-pharma grade drugs, as it was taken off the agenda for political reasons.

So now AIDS is caused by unspecified impurities in recreational drugs and politicians want to suppress this important truth? This is turning into the vaccine debate, except it's even more absurd because politicians have no real reason to want people to have confidence in the quality of illegal drugs and every reason to want people not to do things that give them AIDS because it costs a lot of money to treat this disease.

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So now AIDS is caused by unspecified impurities in recreational drugs and politicians want to suppress this important truth? This is turning into the vaccine debate, except it's even more absurd because politicians have no real reason to want people to have confidence in the quality of illegal drugs and every reason to want people not to do things that give them AIDS because it costs a lot of money to treat this disease.

Why do you keep trying to twist what I'm saying?

I'm not saying that HIV is not the cause of AIDS, it may well be a necessary precondition, but you really cannot comprehend it is possible that there are other factors are at play? That's a bit like saying motoring accidents are always due to excessive speed, and never have cofactors like black ice or intoxication. We use pharmaceuticals to lower immune response, why do you think it not possible other uncontrolled drugs can't do the same?

Luc Montagnier: “We can be exposed to HIV many times without being chronically infected. Our immune system will get rid of the virus within a few weeks, if you have a good immune system.”

Remember him? The one who was awarded the Nobel prize for discovering the HIV virus? Now, is it not possible that it's more likely to become infected with HIV (or TB and all sorts of other infectious diseases), if your immune system is already compromised by drug taking? Is it not worth researching?

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