Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
interestrateripoff

No Danger Of Blackouts In Britain, Says David Cameron

Recommended Posts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10572488/No-danger-of-blackouts-says-David-Cameron.html

Ed Miliband's price pledge threatens to bring forward Britain's energy crisis by a year, to winter 2014-2015, analsyts warn

Prime Minister denies that energy crisis could see power cuts become regular occurence by winter 2015-16, saying security of supply is top priority

The first denial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's right - there is no possibility of any black outs. But it will cost us, and the bills are due soon.

Already covered by Mr North, the rest of the media will catch up in a few years.

http://www.eureferen...px?blogno=84094

Thanks for that. New to me, but of a piece with everything else Cameron's turned his hand to. A solution that appears to be both costlier than any other and more polluting. Easy win for big money types, too, by the looks, while the hoi polloi still face the prospect of shivering in the dark. Very Dave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like another cast iron lie. There might be no blackouts but for sure the Great Glibness doesn't know one way or the other.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that. New to me, but of a piece with everything else Cameron's turned his hand to. A solution that appears to be both costlier than any other and more polluting. Easy win for big money types, too, by the looks, while the hoi polloi still face the prospect of shivering in the dark. Very Dave.

Yes, British Upper Class Management at it's finest. Never allow the engineers to actually invest the money needed to fix the problem properly, because the engineers are lower class and therefore stupid. Instead muddle along with the lowest-upfront-cost solution, and if things go really wrong just step down with a huge redundancy package.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Energy investors have all the information they need," he said. “There isn't a country in the world that has as clear a system in place as we have."

A bit like the UK economy then :unsure:

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, British Upper Class Management at it's finest. Never allow the engineers to actually invest the money needed to fix the problem properly, because the engineers are lower class and therefore stupid. Instead muddle along with the lowest-upfront-cost solution, and if things go really wrong just step down with a huge redundancy package.

It seems to me an exercise in defining what will and what will not be called a blackout.

Well, everyone had to switch to their own backup generators, designed only for use in a blackout, but it wasn't actually black, so no blackout. See, we told you!

See also recession.

Edited by (Blizzard)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"there is no problem with the banks."

time to buy a portable generator.

Went up to the loft last night to check where the camping stove and camping lights are.

My dad, who lived in a rural area, always had at least two forms of cooking, heating and lighting available, with sufficient fuel for each for at least a week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Went up to the loft last night to check where the camping stove and camping lights are.

My dad, who lived in a rural area, always had at least two forms of cooking, heating and lighting available, with sufficient fuel for each for at least a week.

We have a full set of camping equipment.

If I got really worried I'd start on my scheme for putting a UPS in the lighting mains ring, possibly another in the all-sockets one.

A full backup system running off the solar panels is the EOTW option..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the smart-meters currently being pushed out be remotely set to limit power use? So no blackouts, but only enough electricity per household to run a fridge and a light and keep the boiler from disengaging. A quick google gives this:

http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/get-advice/energy/smart-meters-what-are-they-and-how-can-i-find-out-more/benefits-and-disadvantages-of-smart-meters#B7

What is technically possible with a smart meter

At present most of us can use as much electricity as we want, provided we can afford to pay for it. Smart meters will make it possible in the future for energy suppliers to offer cheaper tariffs with a ‘load limit’ or to use this function if you fall into debt.

If you have this type of tariff your energy supplier could limit the amount of electricity that you can use at any one time eg they could supply only a very low level of electricity, for example enough electricity to power lights, a fridge and TV. Your energy supplier could also, in agreement with you, put a cap on the amount of energy you use in a given period eg per day or week. This is called ‘load limiting’. As explained above, none of the energy suppliers are currently using load limiting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the smart-meters currently being pushed out be remotely set to limit power use? So no blackouts, but only enough electricity per household to run a fridge and a light and keep the boiler from disengaging. A quick google gives this:

http://www.consumerfocus.org.uk/get-advice/energy/smart-meters-what-are-they-and-how-can-i-find-out-more/benefits-and-disadvantages-of-smart-meters#B7

I don't think we're at that stage yet, but it's the way the wind's blowing (pun intended). Moving to sustainable but intermittent energy sources is going to require some major rethinking of our electricity consumption habits and associated technology. Google, as usual, has a finger in the pie (Google to buy Nest Labs for $3.2bn).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's when they link us up remotely to provide electricity to the grid we really need to worry.

At least we'll be able to get a decent steak that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the smart-meters currently being pushed out be remotely set to limit power use?

No. The current generation of meters can do the following:

1. Measure energy use, transmit it to base for billing. Multiple independent metering systems in the meter will cross check the readings, for reliability and detection of tampering. This information will also be transmitted back to base so that the supplier can investigate electricity theft quickly and replace malfunctioning meters before complete meter failure.

2. Receive information about electricity pricing, potentially on a real time basis, permitting the use of time-of-use charging and receive information about account status.

3. Broadcast information about energy usage, current price, tariff, etc. to a paired local display

4. Broadcast current price data to compatible appliances (permitting the appliance to schedule non-urgent operation to a cheaper period if the user desires).

5. Disconnect all power at the request of the utility.

The meter has limited capability to limit power use, as there is no way for it directly to control appliances. The idea is that compatible non-time critical appliances (e.g. freezers, immersion heaters, washing machines, dishwashers, etc.) could be operated by the user in a "price-sensitive" mode, where the device will delay operation until an acceptable price is reached (or in the case of a fridge/freezer, bias the thermostat according to price - enough to bias consumption to cheaper times, but not enough to spoil food). However, meters may have the capability to provide very limited control over storage heaters/immersion heaters, which in current installations are meter controlled.

Now, it may be the case, that future generations of meters might have multiple switching capability - so that different circuits can be turned on and off. In reality, this would be pointless, because people would wire whatever they wanted to the "emergency" circuit, so I think it's very unlikely that we would see such things.

Although technically, it would be possible to ration power - so that after a certain number of kWh used in 24 hours, the meter cuts the power off. No utilities plan to do this, and it is unlikely that regulators would permit that (except in an extreme energy market dislocation). The problem is that the meters have no discretion in what is cut off, it couldn't say, disconnect the TV, but leave the lights and fridge/freezer. Such disconnection would likely only be used when the meter is operated in pre-payment mode, and credit is exhausted (exactly the same as a current prepayment meter).

The main benefits of smart meters are:

1. More accurate billing, and greater customer awareness of energy usage.

2. Provides infrastructure for greater implementation of time-of-use billing, and provides an accurate method for electricity suppliers and distributors to reconcile their energy use (which at present is just guestimated based on average usage patterns).

3. Simplifies the use of pre-payment methods and can avoid a lot of the high costs associated with prepayment meters (high cost of the tokens/cards, high commission charges from paypoint/retailers, inconvenience of needing to visit a participating retailer to top-up, etc.)

Edited by ChumpusRex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although technically, it would be possible to ration power - so that after a certain number of kWh used in 24 hours, the meter cuts the power off. No utilities plan to do this, and it is unlikely that regulators would permit that (except in an extreme energy market dislocation).

So they could (and almost certainly would) be used to ration power as a last ditch alternative to rolling blackouts then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Industrial users of electricity will get shutdown first - plenty then left for residential.

Cornwall gets switched off first.

Almost no industry there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cornwall gets switched off first.

Almost no industry there.

Yes, but given that the economy of Cornwall revolves almost entirely around scented candle manufacture and brightly colored knitwear, switching off electricity should provide a boost..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   205 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.