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TheCountOfNowhere

European Deflation....

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25669663

"European Central Bank keeps rates at record 0.25% low"

"With eurozone inflation falling below 1%, there is also concern about deflation "

yes, we're all concerned about things becoming more affordable.

"the ECB is ready to "take further decisive action""

yes, they will do anything to make things less affordable.

Who put the bankers in charge ?

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25669663

"European Central Bank keeps rates at record 0.25% low"

"With eurozone inflation falling below 1%, there is also concern about deflation "

yes, we're all concerned about things becoming more affordable.

"the ECB is ready to "take further decisive action""

yes, they will do anything to make things less affordable.

Who put the bankers in charge ?

Cyprus has just joined Greece with official deflation.

About the bankers being in charge, there is in fact a probe at the moment into the 'democratic legitimacy' of the Troika by MEPs.

Link

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Cyprus has just joined Greece with official deflation.

About the bankers being in charge, there is in fact a probe at the moment into the 'democratic legitimacy' of the Troika by MEPs.

Link

Will be interesting to see what happens.

The UK people need deflation...of course that wont suit the bankers, politicians or (unearned ) equity rich :rolleyes:

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There was an item on Today on Radio 4 this morning, banging on about how bad deflation is.

As far as I could tell, it was bad because people would put off buying things, thinking they would be cheaper next week / month / year.

Well they won't put off buying essentials like food and energy. They won't put off buying things they actually need now, today, this minute. They might very well put off buying stuff they don't need but 1) that means they won't take on more debt (in most cases) and 2) most of the stuff is made outside the UK so not buying it would reduce imports.

Can't see what's wrong with that myself, except of course for moneylenders and tatmongers.

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There was an item on Today on Radio 4 this morning, banging on about how bad deflation is.

As far as I could tell, it was bad because people would put off buying things, thinking they would be cheaper next week / month / year.

Well they won't put off buying essentials like food and energy. They won't put off buying things they actually need now, today, this minute. They might very well put off buying stuff they don't need but 1) that means they won't take on more debt (in most cases) and 2) most of the stuff is made outside the UK so not buying it would reduce imports.

Can't see what's wrong with that myself, except of course for moneylenders and tatmongers.

That`s why nobody ever buys computers :)

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There was an item on Today on Radio 4 this morning, banging on about how bad deflation is.

As far as I could tell, it was bad because people would put off buying things, thinking they would be cheaper next week / month / year.

Well they won't put off buying essentials like food and energy. They won't put off buying things they actually need now, today, this minute. They might very well put off buying stuff they don't need but 1) that means they won't take on more debt (in most cases) and 2) most of the stuff is made outside the UK so not buying it would reduce imports.

Can't see what's wrong with that myself, except of course for moneylenders and tatmongers.

There's been deflation in electrical goods for years but people keep on buying them.

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There was an item on Today on Radio 4 this morning, banging on about how bad deflation is.

As far as I could tell, it was bad because people would put off buying things, thinking they would be cheaper next week / month / year.

Well they won't put off buying essentials like food and energy. They won't put off buying things they actually need now, today, this minute. They might very well put off buying stuff they don't need but 1) that means they won't take on more debt (in most cases) and 2) most of the stuff is made outside the UK so not buying it would reduce imports.

Can't see what's wrong with that myself, except of course for moneylenders and tatmongers.

No it's bad because it increases the real value of debts. Whats greek debt at now? oh and spanish and italian?

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No it's bad because it increases the real value of debts. Whats greek debt at now? oh and spanish and italian?

that's ok then...the rest of us can struggle so banks can profit from idiots who want to live beyond their mean.

as i said....WE NEED DEFLATION.

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Just got back from Spain.

All I saw was inflation. All I heard about in the bars was people complaining about inflation...

and no jobs.

What location out of interest? I spent a week in Valladolid over New Year and my experience was quite the opposite when it came to prices in bars/restaurants etc. A common theme was no jobs still to be found.

Edited by acidreign

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About the bankers being in charge, there is in fact a probe at the moment into the 'democratic legitimacy' of the Troika by MEPs.

The EU are running scared of a new breed of political leaders practicing something they denounce as 'populism'.

What this means is not entirely clear - but apparently some sick barsta*rds are running around europe actually listening to what people want and promising to do something about it.

Not to worry though- the MEP's are on the job and will be stamping down hard on this 'democracy' thing before it gets out of hand.

Edited by wonderpup

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What location out of interest? I spent a week in Valladolid over New Year and my experience was quite the opposite when it came to prices in bars/restaurants etc. A common theme was no jobs still to be found.

Oviedo, Asturias.

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For a good example of Squidy apologism (actually not much in the way of real apologism but more like economic 2+2=3ism or even 2+2=1ism)

Starting at 21 minutes into the podcast.

http://

www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/dailybacon

Jane Horrocks, Jim O'Neill & Chart The Week 09 Jan 14

Thu, 9 Jan 14

Duration:

62 mins

Available:

30 days remaining

On the programme today Richard talks to Absolutely Fabulous and Trollied star Jane Horrocks about cover versions she's made of Manchester indie classics by Morrissey and Joy Division. He also chats with Jim O'Neill, a retired chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management and is now a global economist about the MINT countries, Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria and Turkey, which he as identified as the strongest emerging economies we should watch. And because it's Thursday we've been counting down the the top news stories from the last seven days in Chart The Week with Davina Hamilton from The Voice and David Wooding from The Sun

Bacon asked a few relatively probing questions (relative to the normal interviewers questions) and at one point being under the smallest amount of pressure (e.g bankers' unpopularity, Greece and its debt etc) there seemed to be a perceptible change in speech. It went from being near Northern blokey to the Rs being rolled (wolled) - all of a sudden.

Edited by billybong

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Just got back from Spain.

All I saw was inflation. All I heard about in the bars was people complaining about inflation...

and no jobs.

Yep, the bars are packed here in Madrid too. Same as the metro (not just rush hour) and city centre streets.

I suspect that the high taxes have meant the black economy (already large) has gotten even bigger.

As for inflation - it's really just energy prices that are a problem. Domestic and retail rents have fallen. Some franchise chains are offering really cheap beer and meal deals to keep the punters coming in, you just have to shop around to get the right deal (and squeeze into you space).

No idea if the sales/rebajas are better value than previous years, but they've attracted the crowds.

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There's been deflation in electrical goods for years but people keep on buying them.

Yes, and electrical goods are pretty much non-essential items which blows the "If there's deflation no-one will buy anything" lie out of the water. Buy hey - any excuse to pursue inflation and transfer wealth to the financial sector.

As for deflation in Europe generally, I very much doubt the cost of essentials for the people living in the EU is going to fall any time soon. I would see the cost of living go only one way - up.

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Just got back from Spain.

All I saw was inflation. All I heard about in the bars was people complaining about inflation...

and no jobs.

When your income, asset values ect shrinks with deflation, you have to stretch your money more and things can seem more expensive, thus described as inflation, when actually deflation?

Although I'd expect some items to increase in price with deflation, imported stuff, and maybe some businesses raising prices so only those who were positioned to be winners in the economy, before the bust, gravitate to. Only asset value deflation matters to me anyway.

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Deflation may be on the cards, the turning of the commodities super-cycle should lead to very low exterior pressures. Overcrowded UK and dynamic US will be largely unscathed by this. Meanwhile the rest of Europe may get into a deflationary spiral.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/09/a-decade-of-deflation-for-mining/

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Yes, and electrical goods are pretty much non-essential items which blows the "If there's deflation no-one will buy anything" lie out of the water. Buy hey - any excuse to pursue inflation and transfer wealth to the financial sector.

As for deflation in Europe generally, I very much doubt the cost of essentials for the people living in the EU is going to fall any time soon. I would see the cost of living go only one way - up.

A fridge, washing machine, kettle etc. could be considered as essential. Even a telly is something you need to buy if you want to watch telly, but Flat Screens used to be sometimes 1000`s of £`s when they first appeared, and all the debt mugs started mounting them on the wall in the property they had "bought" :lol: but now, well the last one I bought was £169 , that is serious deflation, but of course as you say people have still been buying them all the way down. Also, as I have posted many times, my rent costs are dropping, and that is the main cost of living expense for most people.

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Deflation may be on the cards, the turning of the commodities super-cycle should lead to very low exterior pressures. Overcrowded UK and dynamic US will be largely unscathed by this. Meanwhile the rest of Europe may get into a deflationary spiral.

http://www.macrobusi...ion-for-mining/

I`m Sure M+S, Tesco , Morrisons etc will be relieved to hear this.

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A fridge, washing machine, kettle etc. could be considered as essential. Even a telly is something you need to buy if you want to watch telly, but Flat Screens used to be sometimes 1000`s of £`s when they first appeared, and all the debt mugs started mounting them on the wall in the property they had "bought" :lol: but now, well the last one I bought was £169 , that is serious deflation, but of course as you say people have still been buying them all the way down. Also, as I have posted many times, my rent costs are dropping, and that is the main cost of living expense for most people.

Not to mention the guy that bought a laptop without an inbuilt modem in 1998 for £1,500 on a concurrent thread.

By the way the first pair of jeans I bought in 1980, Lee Cooper, cost me £20....a comparable pair today would be around a tenner. some inflation.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Not to mention the guy that bought a laptop without an inbuilt modem in 1998 for £1,500 on a concurrent thread.

By the way the first pair of jeans I bought in 1980, Lee Cooper, cost me £20....a comparable pair today would be around a tenner. some inflation.

Yep, both good examples of how it is hard to keep inflation going over decades.

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