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Young's Wandsworth Brewery Site Sold For £600M

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So land costs of approx. £1 million per apartment. Ok, there is commercial space there too but unless I've missed something these are going to be staggeringly expensive flats! Thanks China keep sending us the iphones, TVs, kettles and stuff.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businessclub/10556270/Chinas-Greenland-buys-Wandsworths-Ram-Brewery.html

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So land costs of approx. £1 million per apartment. Ok, there is commercial space there too but unless I've missed something these are going to be staggeringly expensive flats! Thanks China keep sending us the iphones, TVs, kettles and stuff.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businessclub/10556270/Chinas-Greenland-buys-Wandsworths-Ram-Brewery.html

I have seen a few examples where developers who massively overpaid for a site and then can't afford to build on there because they cannot get their money back. One of them remains a Lithuanian-run car wash at least 5 years after it was purchased. Even with the massive increase in house prices in that time they still paid too much!

The ones I am talking about are small sites, under £10m each. I am not sure how they can just leave a £600m site dormant until prices catch up, but I also can't see how they are going to sell flats for well over £1m in a not particularly desirable or central area of London.

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Any word on this? A staggering number of flats are being built in Wandsworth right now. At least a dozen blocks by the river another half dozen in town. I can't see how these chaps can sell yet more at the brewery. Plus without a tube it's just not v central... These are central London prices

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Any word on this? A staggering number of flats are being built in Wandsworth right now. At least a dozen blocks by the river another half dozen in town. I can't see how these chaps can sell yet more at the brewery. Plus without a tube it's just not v central... These are central London prices

No it's not the best location is it? 18 minutes from Wandsworth Town to Waterloo, which seems slightly ludicrous to me.

If you want to live there you will be getting on a lot of buses I reckon. Not my idea of fun.

Seems a particularly bad place to spend £££ to me. You might as well live in St Albans or something, far fewer criminals and won't take you any longer to get to work (and the trains run all night), and cheaper too.

E.g.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=26557689&sale=598864&country=england

cf.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=39062518&sale=50194874&country=england (more expensive)

My guess is they are all being sold to Chinese.

Yield looks terrible:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/31997865

£2200 pcm on that, which is what £800k worth?

Monopoly money stuff. Not really representative of a tangible reality.

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Living in St Albans (or similar; Kingston, Surrey, etc) is fine if your life mainly just involves going to work and spending time with your children, but younger people will always prefer city living, even if that means compromising on location.

Wandsworth is a bit out of the way, but its still relatively central, a decent enough area, has good nightlife up the road in Clapham, and Clapham Junction is within walking distance (just) for transport links.

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(and thats before you throw in the cost of the £4k annual season ticket for the trains [x2 if both people are working], and the general hell which comes from dealing with National Rail and their perennially overcrowded, late trains)

And its not like the houses within 20 minutes walk of the national rail station aren't also horrendously overpriced for what they are. Basically all the disadvantages of London (insane prices) with none of the benefits (things to do)

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Living in St Albans (or similar; Kingston, Surrey, etc) is fine if your life mainly just involves going to work and spending time with your children, but younger people will always prefer city living, even if that means compromising on location.

Wandsworth is a bit out of the way, but its still relatively central, a decent enough area, has good nightlife up the road in Clapham, and Clapham Junction is within walking distance (just) for transport links.

Ideal for all thos young people with £800k burning a hole in their pockets.

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Living in St Albans (or similar; Kingston, Surrey, etc) is fine if your life mainly just involves going to work and spending time with your children, but younger people will always prefer city living, even if that means compromising on location.

Wandsworth is a bit out of the way, but its still relatively central, a decent enough area, has good nightlife up the road in Clapham, and Clapham Junction is within walking distance (just) for transport links.

I know what you are saying, but when prices go this high for this location it starts to cause problems for the type of people that want to live there.

Younger people aren’t always the ones with the deepest pockets, so less of them are going to be able to afford to buy at these prices (or more likely rent from a landlord at a rate that these prices will demand) so it doesn’t really matter if they want the great nightlife that living in Wandsworth might bring or not, they just won’t be able to afford it.

You are right to say that places like St. Albans and Kingston are ludicrously expensive for what they are, but they are many levels down on this type of price.

Day to day travel is more expensive, but not much more hassle. As bambam points out, Wandsworth Town is 18 minutes from Waterloo, which is exactly the same as my commute all the way out to Surbiton. The trains actually run later out there as well, but if a cab is required, you do start to realise that you are living in the sticks!

If we were talking about this price differential for Kingston vs. Covent Garden, then I’d agree 100%, but for Wandsworth it seems a bit too much.

Edited by worried1

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The thing for me in all these not-very-wonderful not-quite-central parts of London is that many of your neighbours are very poor indeed.

If you go live in St Albans all your neighbours will be comfortably off.

I'm not saying that as a good or bad thing, though obviously rich neighbours bring fewer social problems, but the problem comes when you pay rich money for poor people's housing. I don't see why people would want to do that.

It's a mass delusion IMO, London had museums and parks and bars and shops 20, 30 years ago, but people weren't clamouring then to pay a million quid for a flat in grotsville. Now they see that people are paying ever more ludicrous prices to live there, suddenly they feel they must be missing out and rush to pay country manor prices for poverty housing. The fundamentals haven't changed in the slightest, no matter how much gentrification people claim.

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The thing for me in all these not-very-wonderful not-quite-central parts of London is that many of your neighbours are very poor indeed.

If you go live in St Albans all your neighbours will be comfortably off.

I'm not saying that as a good or bad thing, though obviously rich neighbours bring fewer social problems, but the problem comes when you pay rich money for poor people's housing. I don't see why people would want to do that.

It's a mass delusion IMO, London had museums and parks and bars and shops 20, 30 years ago, but people weren't clamouring then to pay a million quid for a flat in grotsville. Now they see that people are paying ever more ludicrous prices to live there, suddenly they feel they must be missing out and rush to pay country manor prices for poverty housing. The fundamentals haven't changed in the slightest, no matter how much gentrification people claim.

It is a generation thing. I remember quite a few people from my parents generation (now in their 60s) flatly refusing to live in the type of terraced housing that they had been brought up in. Places like Sevenoaks and Guildford were preferred to London even though at that time they were actually more expensive than most of the non-prime areas of the capital.

Sure, people lived in London when they were young, and some of the richer ones stayed in the prime areas as they got older, but the aspiration of the majority was always to move to a bigger house in a commuter town or further out.

With the current generation, it has swung to the total opposite. The majority does not seem to care where a house is as long as it is 'in London'.

I have previously started a thread about Penge in zone 4, which is just the type of area that the boomer generation would not have looked at. Now, prices have doubled in less than two years and people are piling in there despite no signs of gentrification. At £400k+ for a small terraced house, you could easily afford the same or better in Guildford or Woking even once the extra travel costs are taken into account.

I can definitely see the attraction in living in a better part of London myself, but the numbers don't work when it costs this much to live in places that I can't see any attraction in.

As you say, a lot of the cool and interesting aspects of London are massively overstated. I went for a drink last week in a pub in the road between Spitalfields Market and Brick Lane - the heart of the 'cool and hip East End'. The parade of shops opposite consisted of Nandos, Tesco Expess, Urban Outfitters, All Saints and a couple of others that you see in every ofher town centre in the south east anyway!

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The thing for me in all these not-very-wonderful not-quite-central parts of London is that many of your neighbours are very poor indeed.

If you go live in St Albans all your neighbours will be comfortably off.

I'm not saying that as a good or bad thing, though obviously rich neighbours bring fewer social problems, but the problem comes when you pay rich money for poor people's housing. I don't see why people would want to do that.

Sure, but again this really only matters once you have children that are school age. When you're young it doesnt really matter that much if your neighbours are social housing/benefits types (well it does, but not really enough to justify living in the suburbs). Slumming it in the (central) ghettos is preferable to being in the middle of nowhere for many/most young people without children. Obviously once you have to think about schools everything changes and you start to see white flight out to the suburbs.

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As you say, a lot of the cool and interesting aspects of London are massively overstated. I went for a drink last week in a pub in the road between Spitalfields Market and Brick Lane - the heart of the 'cool and hip East End'. The parade of shops opposite consisted of Nandos, Tesco Expess, Urban Outfitters, All Saints and a couple of others that you see in every ofher town centre in the south east anyway!

That part of London has almost now went beyond gentrification to the point where its basically now a new version of what Covent Garden/etc was in the 90s; the de facto 'going out' area for people who live anywhere within the M25 and want a Friday night out. So yeah, most of the shops are more or less what you will find on any high street across the country (although there are a lot of good bars). The 'cooler' parts of East London tend to be deeper in Hackney - Dalston, Mare Street, London Fields, etc.

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I know what you are saying, but when prices go this high for this location it starts to cause problems for the type of people that want to live there.

Younger people aren’t always the ones with the deepest pockets, so less of them are going to be able to afford to buy at these prices (or more likely rent from a landlord at a rate that these prices will demand) so it doesn’t really matter if they want the great nightlife that living in Wandsworth might bring or not, they just won’t be able to afford it.

This is true, the prices for those sort of flats are clearly ridiculous and being driven by speculation about future capital appreciation. But probably also rent appreciation too; while young people may not be able to afford to buy an £800k flat, they can afford to rent it, and the parts of London around Clapham are becoming more and more desirable. And with the supply of housing in London still being strictly controlled, and the demand continually rising due to increased immigration from the EU expansion and the flock of people from Northern England to London due to the lack of jobs elsewhere in the UK, theres only one direction rents are likely to go in the medium/long term.

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Sure, but again this really only matters once you have children that are school age. When you're young it doesnt really matter that much if your neighbours are social housing/benefits types (well it does, but not really enough to justify living in the suburbs).

It mattered to a lot of people that I knew who lived in east London when younger and kept getting their stuff nicked or mugged on the way back from the office! Obviously that happens in the suburbs and further out as well, but the incidence is far less in my group of friends/colleagues.

Slumming it in the (central) ghettos is preferable to being in the middle of nowhere for many/most young people without children. Obviously once you have to think about schools everything changes and you start to see white flight out to the suburbs.

I do agree with you, but I just don't think that Wandsworth is a central enough ghetto for the price. I can understand Dalston etc if that is your type of thing, but I don't think Wandsworth offers that much at all.

I don't think there is that much to do locally there, and if going out in central London-proper I can be back to zone 6 in about the same time as I would to that place, using the same s***ty South West Trains service so the same chance of delays etc.

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I don't really 'get' land value of £1m per flat [and therefore surely at least say £1.25m sale value per flat, at teh very very least, probably more?] on that site.

Even now, after a couple of years of really rampant HPI, £1.25m can still buy you a 4/5 bedroomed house with a garden, close to a tube, in say Balham, Putney, Wimbledon, and a 3/4 bed place in even the best parts of Clapham.

What's so great about the Wandsworth site? It's not overly close to the river, not close to a tube, I wouldn't say that the bars, restaurants, etc have anything in particualr to comment them, I've heard nothing particularly good about the schools, the traffic's awful,...

Edited by the flying pig

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