Polish Minister Attacks Child Benefit Removal Plan

[SleepyHead]

Polish minister attacks David Cameron's (UKIP pressured) child benefit plan.

Poland's foreign minister has criticised David Cameron's call for a change to European Union treaties to allow the withdrawal of child benefit from migrants working in the UK.

Writing on Twitter, Radoslaw Sikorski asked: "If Britain gets our taxpayers, shouldn't it also pay their benefits?"

He added that Polish taxpayers should not "subsidise" UK taxpayers' children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25628791

Polish minister happy for Brits to continue to subsidise Polish kids though!

VOTE UKIP!!

[byron78]

Polish minister happy for Brits to continue to subsidise Polish kids though!

Are there any figures on how much Poles pay in tax in the UK and how much they claim in benefits?

I suspect the Poles working here are probably effectively subsidising any benefit claimed by other Poles.

The issue is more that they might (depending on your opinion) be stopping other Brits working.

I think your last sentence is troubled and weakens what might be constructed as a more coherent and grown up discussion tbh.

It ends up sounding a bit Daily Wail, something UKIP would do well to avoid.

Edited January 6, 2014 by byron78

[Executive Sadman]

Quite funny watching EU-shill Cameron get kicked in the teeth every 5 mins by his Euro bum chums whilst saying we can get back power and stay in, honest.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Surely the answer to this is to change the law, such that UK benefits are only paid to or in respect of individuals who are permanently resident in the UK? In other words, every child for whom child benefit is paid must have a UK NI number, and, from the age of 5, must be attending a UK school. The Poles could not reasonably complain about that.

[Executive Sadman]

Are there any figures on how much Poles pay in tax in the UK and how much they claim in benefits?

I suspect the Poles working here are probably effectively subsidising any benefit claimed by other Poles.

The issue is more that they might (depending on your opinion) be stopping other Brits working.

I think your last sentence is troubled and weakens what might be constructed as a more coherent and grown up discussion tbh.

It ends up sounding a bit Daily Wail, something UKIP would do well to avoid.

They increase supply of labour and drive wages down. Why else do you think the 1%ers like them so much?

Might be Ok with that if we didnt have nigh on 10mn economically inactive of our own.

[interestrateripoff]

Surely the answer to this is to change the law, such that UK benefits are only paid to or in respect of individuals who are permanently resident in the UK? In other words, every child for whom child benefit is paid must have a UK NI number, and, from the age of 5, must be attending a UK school. The Poles could not reasonably complain about that.

+1

However this solution is far too simply and wouldn't require a complex IT system to administer.

So from the political perspective it's a fail.

[Executive Sadman]

Surely the answer to this is to change the law, such that UK benefits are only paid to or in respect of individuals who are permanently resident in the UK? In other words, every child for whom child benefit is paid must have a UK NI number, and, from the age of 5, must be attending a UK school. The Poles could not reasonably complain about that.

Wanna bet? A nation without borders is not a nation, whatever cameron says. There is no UK, there is no poland according to the EU, just hordes of people who'll work for a pittance and thus destroy their hosts living standards.

[Bemusedmover]

Wanna bet? A nation without borders is not a nation, whatever cameron says. There is no UK, there is no poland according to the EU, just hordes of people who'll work for a pittance and thus destroy their hosts living standards.

Plus 1

............on a rare shopping trip I noted that Marks and Sparks now have their shoes made in................

Cambodia

..................never mind very soon all industry will be in UK because our wages will be the worlds Lowest

[awaytogo]

Polish minister attacks David Cameron's (UKIP pressured) child benefit plan.

Poland's foreign minister has criticised David Cameron's call for a change to European Union treaties to allow the withdrawal of child benefit from migrants working in the UK.

Writing on Twitter, Radoslaw Sikorski asked: "If Britain gets our taxpayers, shouldn't it also pay their benefits?"

He added that Polish taxpayers should not "subsidise" UK taxpayers' children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25628791

Polish minister happy for Brits to continue to subsidise Polish kids though

VOTE UKIP!!

All these countries are getting worried they are going to lose out on the British gravy train.

And so they should.

[Dorkins]

Is it possible to collect tax credits for children who don't live in the UK too?

[@contradevian]

Plus 1

............on a rare shopping trip I noted that Marks and Sparks now have their shoes made in................

Cambodia

..................never mind very soon all industry will be in UK because our wages will be the worlds Lowest

Its part of the elite plan to make everywhere third world and them stinkingly rich

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

I see, what you need is one world tax collection and benefits system

[byron78]

They increase supply of labour and drive wages down. Why else do you think the 1%ers like them so much?

Might be Ok with that if we didnt have nigh on 10mn economically inactive of our own.

Indeed, but not the point the OP made (and I pulled them up on).

Actually sort of just the (slightly more coherent) argument I suggested they might make come to think of it.

I don't disagree with you btw, but I certainly don't blame the Poles. As you say - it's the 1 percenters that love them.

Edited January 6, 2014 by byron78

[billybong]

Poland's foreign minister has criticised David Cameron's call for a change to European Union treaties to allow the withdrawal of child benefit from migrants working in the UK.

...

He added that Polish taxpayers should not "subsidise" UK taxpayers' children.

...

He added: "UK social security rules apply to all resident EU citizens. No need to stigmatise Poles. What about British children abroad?"

Apparently there are about 5,600 Brits living in Poland ( that's the 2001 census figure - have the numbers increased much since then?) - it's not clear (yet) how many Brits are claiming child benefit in Poland even if it's possible for them to claim child benefit in Poland.

Apparently there are/were about 643,000 Polish living in England (2011 figure). How many are claiming child benefit out of those - and as has been mentioned many times before it only requires minimal hours of work even in non-jobs to become entitled to a whole raft of benefits in the UK, for those with a young child or children.

Considering the relative numbers the Polish foreign minister seems to be making a bit of an empty point about British children abroad. At least so far as Poland is concerned.

Edited January 7, 2014 by billybong

[SarahBell]

Is it possible to collect tax credits for children who don't live in the UK too?

If you can claim CB for them then probably.

No one ever comes round to check.

[olliegog]

If you can claim CB for them then probably.

No one ever comes round to check.

indeed you can

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/who-qualifies/new-arrivals-intro/family-not-in-UK.html

a few 'might check' or 'could check' in the blurb.

[campervanman]

All these countries are getting worried they are going to lose out on the British gravy train.

And so they should.

That would be the gravy train that results in the Polish worker paying UK taxes/NI and not Polish taxes and having the expense of education and healthcare of his children borne by the country that he pays no tax in? Funny old gravy train.

[SleepyHead]

That would be the gravy train that results in the Polish worker paying UK taxes/NI and not Polish taxes and having the expense of education and healthcare of his children borne by the country that he pays no tax in? Funny old gravy train.

If he's earning less than 20K per year, then he's a net recipient, and not a contributor.

The sums are even worse if you include the welfare for the British worker he displaced.

[campervanman]

If he's earning less than 20K per year, then he's a net recipient, and not a contributor.

The sums are even worse if you include the welfare for the British worker he displaced.

That would be the British worker he displaced with the same number of kids who use the UK education and healthcare system not the Polish one would it?

[SleepyHead]

That would be the British worker he displaced with the same number of kids who use the UK education and healthcare system not the Polish one would it?

?

so you think paying for two families, a British one and a Polish one is better for the UK economy?

You'll have to explain that one.

[campervanman]

?

so you think paying for two families, a British one and a Polish one is better for the UK economy?

You'll have to explain that one.

Firstly you explain your assumption that every immigrant worker displaces an indigenous worker.

[SarahBell]

Firstly you explain your assumption that every immigrant worker displaces an indigenous worker.

Well if they replace a migrant worker then they're probably on the dole too as well as the indigenous worker who is displaced.

We have people on the dole. Not one or two, but loads.

[SleepyHead]

Firstly you explain your assumption that every immigrant worker displaces an indigenous worker.

Ok.

Imagine a farm labourer job.

At harvest time, a farm owner would need to employ someone for a couple of months. To get his fruit picked, the farm owner needs to entice a worker to come and do the job. He does this by offering money.

Before mass immigration, the farm owner would have to employ a local person. That local person has his own 'costs' which need to be met to keep him alive. Housing, food, warmth for himself and his family. The wage demanded by the worker reflects his costs. The price of the fruit we buy will reflect the farm owners costs, including the salary of the local farm labourer.

After mass immigration. The farm owner can now search for cheaper labour right across Europe, including from countries like Romania, where the higher value British pound and their lower living costs (cheaper housing etc) ensure that the Romanian worker can meet his living costs easier than the British local worker. i.e. The Romanian can work for less, while still meeting his living costs here, and his families living costs back in Romania. Particularly if the Romanian is paid part cash, part accommodation. (Very easy for farm owners to provide accommodation.)

Therefore, the British worker is priced out of the job, and the farm owner no longer has to raise the wage sufficiently to entice a local worker.

An additional effect of this, is that once the Romanian brings his family over and/or settles here permanently. He too is then facing British living costs, and will himself be undercut by cheap foreign labour.

Hence the farm owner and ill informed politicians incessant demand for continual ongoing immigration. That's why they keep wanting to expand the EU. For the system to work they need ever cheaper workers, ongoing into infinity.

Now you defend your position?

[Kurt Barlow]

Surely the answer to this is to change the law, such that UK benefits are only paid to or in respect of individuals who are permanently resident in the UK? In other words, every child for whom child benefit is paid must have a UK NI number, and, from the age of 5, must be attending a UK school. The Poles could not reasonably complain about that.

+1

I have said here before the answer to 99% of this is to make benefits only collectable in person via the post office.

[geezer466]

If you can claim CB for them then probably.

No one ever comes round to check.

Yes although HMRC website does not explicitly say so it can be claimed.

http://www.hmrc.gov....-taxcredits.htm

If your child lives outside the UK

You may be able to claim Child Tax Credit for your child if you live in the UK and any of the following apply:

• you come from a country in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland and are working in the UK, or get contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance
• your child normally lives with you, but spends some time abroad, for example, they are studying elsewhere in the world and come home during school holidays
• your partner is a Crown servant posted anywhere overseas and your child lives with them

If both you and your child live outside the UK, you can't normally claim tax credits. But special rules sometimes apply which mean you can still claim. For example, if your partner's a Crown servant posted overseas, and you've gone with them, or you're getting certain UK benefits or State Pension.

As has been said no one checks.

Without getting into the argument about whether it is wrong or right to confer benefits like this to people who have not previously paid in, it is these range of benefits which I believe are the largest draw for migrants.

These people are by and large will be earning the minimum wage when they do find employment in the UK. If they arrive with2, 3 or more children (who may or may not be long term resident in the UK) the tax credit element can be worth many hundreds of pounds per Month.Multiply that by a few thousand families (not an unreasonable figure now we have some data on who travels) and it is not hard to see it going to be a huge drain on the exchequer!!