spyguy Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Si1 said: I know what she's done wrong. She needs to do the wealth dance (tm) and then everything will be okay. I wonder, if she can't afford to take a mill or so hit on this property, is that the reason she's holding out? Because she needs to cover her leverage?? Its a clusterfk. She appears to have crowd funded the development. Theres no sign of the money on her company. God knows who owns what n how. Even for super prime london, 5m is a *lot* London had 8,200 1m+ property sales. I would guess thd number over 5m is tiny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Si1 Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 9 hours ago, spyguy said: Its a clusterfk. She appears to have crowd funded the development. Is that legal and is her liability limited? What kind of corporate vehicle is the development contained in? Or is she a sole trader? Is it possible that a given property developer could act fraudulently in a case like this - say by offering unrealistic returns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 06/09/2019 at 08:24, Si1 said: Is that legal and is her liability limited? What kind of corporate vehicle is the development contained in? Or is she a sole trader? Is it possible that a given property developer could act fraudulently in a case like this - say by offering unrealistic returns? I dont know - Im clueless to the setup. However, I feel both she and her crowd funders are too. Her accounts just look like a small builder - theres no sign of 5m charge anywhere, so Id guess the money is a personal debt. The whole crowdfunding/new finsec/techsec whatever is nuts. How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Si1 Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 hours ago, spyguy said: . How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London? Her husband works long hours and sounds in a high earning bracket. It also smells of distributed hidden debts etc, just a hunch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fromage Frais Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, spyguy said: I dont know - Im clueless to the setup. However, I feel both she and her crowd funders are too. Her accounts just look like a small builder - theres no sign of 5m charge anywhere, so Id guess the money is a personal debt. The whole crowdfunding/new finsec/techsec whatever is nuts. How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London? I put all the info there. When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £ It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459 She originally moaned in November last year Denial has cost 200k maybe. And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief. Edited September 7, 2019 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Fromage Frais said: I put all the info there. When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £ It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459 She originally moaned in November last year Denial has cost 200k maybe. And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief. Zoopla values houses likemy mum - v. optimistically. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Funny one. Only sold once in ~20 odd years https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three. The price history of A n B are err interesting too. https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Fromage Frais said: I put all the info there. When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £ It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459 She originally moaned in November last year Denial has cost 200k maybe. And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief. Estate agency is dead. Traditional methods of marketing properties don’t work in depressed market. What else are people doing to shift highend property? Traditional???? I thought that was slashing the price, always. Theres no difference in shifting a cheap terrace in Darlo and or a 'high end' property in London. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Your guru post- her tweet was Nov 18. She said it had been on the market for 12 months with no interest, so ~ Nov 2017. Place transacted Feb 2016, so ~18 months refurb./whatnot. Interesting that I did not find the actual company in my searches. Normally good at finding info. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09935926/charges/MBcz5tZUfC5KSp3uD-iBhW1UhjA https://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencewintermeyer/2019/04/04/oaknorth-is-europes-most-valuable-fintech-and-in-profit-a-rare-breed-of-fintech-unicorn/ OakNorth is Europe’s most valuable fintech with a $2.8 Billion valuation. It has lent $4 Billion to British businesses without a single credit default. Earlier this year it secured an investment of $440 Million, the largest investment of any fintech in European history in a round led by none other than SoftBank’s Vision Fund in its first foray into European fintech. https://www.ft.com/content/20935b34-4b13-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62 British business lender OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite more than doubling the size of its loan book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Si1 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Funny one. Only sold once in ~20 odd years https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three. The price history of A n B are err interesting too. https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT And after development hers is worth 5m? What did she decorate it with - unicorn spit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pop321 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Funny one. Only sold once in ~20 odd years https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three. The price history of A n B are err interesting too. https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Thx. Nice summary of building. Price all over the place Those are really interesting prices with 36c dropping to a sale price of £150k. It is possible that is a freehold purchase attributed to a flat owner but you research highlights this is a flat NOT to be bought with internet research alone. For me, they bought this flat for £2m in 2016 and think it’s now £5m, PCL just seems mad. Refurb, nice taps, lights, daft priced £50k kitchen not substantially different from a £8k top quality kitchen without a label. Then ask £5m. The concern isn’t this formula but my concern is that it has been working and some numpties were buying in the past. In my little town I bought houses for £130/140 spent £25k and then made £50k for my efforts. Balmy. People do not want to paint or hang wallpaper. With the irony being the first thing they do is then pay a decorator £3k to tweak the colours before they move in. Now in my town that’s one thing...but London has been ‘that’ on steroids. I guess my question would be is it worth £2m or is it worth £5m....and I am not interested in the refurb costs because I guess (and for me it is a guess for PCL) they will have been £250k max? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pop321 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Si1 said: And after development hers is worth 5m? What did she decorate it with - unicorn spit? You used a lot less words than me....but spot on. ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Si1 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 58 minutes ago, Pop321 said: You used a lot less words than me....but spot on. ? I'm guessing it was foreign buyers, using borrowed money with little oversight. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/09/05/after-three-chinese-banks-are-bailed-out-how-many-more-are-at-risk?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/afterthreechinesebanksarebailedouthowmanymoreareatriskexpellingthepoison Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fatmanfilms Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 11 hours ago, Fromage Frais said: I put all the info there. When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £ It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459 She originally moaned in November last year Denial has cost 200k maybe. And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief. So she paid £2,050,000 most price values it at £3,489,000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Hun Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, spyguy said: Your guru post- her tweet was Nov 18. She said it had been on the market for 12 months with no interest, so ~ Nov 2017. Place transacted Feb 2016, so ~18 months refurb./whatnot. Interesting that I did not find the actual company in my searches. Normally good at finding info. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09935926/charges/MBcz5tZUfC5KSp3uD-iBhW1UhjA https://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencewintermeyer/2019/04/04/oaknorth-is-europes-most-valuable-fintech-and-in-profit-a-rare-breed-of-fintech-unicorn/ OakNorth is Europe’s most valuable fintech with a $2.8 Billion valuation. It has lent $4 Billion to British businesses without a single credit default. Earlier this year it secured an investment of $440 Million, the largest investment of any fintech in European history in a round led by none other than SoftBank’s Vision Fund in its first foray into European fintech. https://www.ft.com/content/20935b34-4b13-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62 British business lender OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite more than doubling the size of its loan book. She's funded by a short term mortage. LTV 75% or less, ~10% year interest, maybe more. If she defaults she'll lose the SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) company and therefore the property but it will be backed by a personal guarantee. Here income doesn't matter in this situation, they take the property if it goes into default ( after 12months and a bit). If she has been attempting to sell for 12months then shes going to lose it, as that the absolute maximum a fair price property should take. Off to auction it will go. Odd that there is no number in the Charge, I'd expect to see the debt amount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Si1 said: And after development hers is worth 5m? What did she decorate it with - unicorn spit? Farrow n Ball new range .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Hun Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 13:25, the_duke_of_hazzard said: Picked at random: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64869471.html Nice looking - 4 bed house for under 3.7m Must be a hell of a flat to go for 5m. Presume its this https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-78590255.html Currently at £4.5m, down from £5.25m. Its 25% bigger at the house at 250sq M so its in the ballpark asking price. £18k per sqM. I'd hazard a guess that she refinanced July 2018 for £3million and will be up to £3.5m now with interest. Send to auction and that could go for £2.8m. Quote OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite LoL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fromage Frais Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Presume its this https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-78590255.html Currently at £4.5m, down from £5.25m. Its 25% bigger at the house at 250sq M so its in the ballpark asking price. £18k per sqM. I'd hazard a guess that she refinanced July 2018 for £3million and will be up to £3.5m now with interest. Send to auction and that could go for £2.8m. LoL. https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/50726160 Yes I think these are the same. I dont think zoopla val is to far off as a flat and lots of flats around there. It may not be as low as 1.8 million (at this moment) but 1.8 million + x with x being the benefit of the refurbishment. 2-2.8 is a long way from 4.x ? Saw there is 130 years on the lease left and a lovely £4500 service charge £375 a month for a flat in a house no car park (or actual space), no gym or security. Edited September 8, 2019 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Hun Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Its overpriced, no doubt about it. Prices have fallen considerable more than PCL average on that street. Its Earls court, which is grotty, but 250sqm is a lot of space and it adds up even at 10k per m2. Difficult to give an accurate estimate of value as nothing has sold on that street since Feb. Problem is, who wants to have millions invested when its falling in value at 4-8% a year. Its three floors, worth more as 3x 80m2 flats and far easier to sell. She has gone for the now non-existent 'luxury' end of the market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Si1 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Its overpriced, no doubt about it. Prices have fallen considerable more than PCL average on that street. Its Earls court, which is grotty, but 250sqm is a lot of space and it adds up even at 10k per m2. Difficult to give an accurate estimate of value as nothing has sold on that street since Feb. Problem is, who wants to have millions invested when its falling in value at 4-8% a year. Its three floors, worth more as 3x 80m2 flats and far easier to sell. She has gone for the now non-existent 'luxury' end of the market. This is a fascinating insight into the crash and the people in the middle. She won't even realise she's been hit by a train until she's coming round in hospital and she's lost the use of her legs. Train. What train? Edited September 8, 2019 by Si1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
winkie Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 How long is the lease?.........in other words how long renting the building for?.......what is the rental cost per month? You paid how much! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ebull Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, spyguy said: Funny one. Only sold once in ~20 odd years https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three. The price history of A n B are err interesting too. https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT Quote Latest house prices matching: '36b harrington gardens, london sw7 4lt' 3 sales found Date Price Address 11/01/2017 £150,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT 20/10/1995 £390,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT 05/10/1995 £40,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT interesting indeed ..... 40k to 390k in the same month could be accounted for with a lease extension from a couple of years to a hundred plus. 390k to 150k over 22 years including 2000-2008 and 2012-2017. I can't think of an explanation. My best guess ... b in 95 consists of the part sold as c in 2016 and a small room left over sold separately as b. Edited September 8, 2019 by ebull Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Hun Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 150k will be a lease extension, the 40k could be too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyguy Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Peter Hun said: She's funded by a short term mortage. LTV 75% or less, ~10% year interest, maybe more. If she defaults she'll lose the SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) company and therefore the property but it will be backed by a personal guarantee. Here income doesn't matter in this situation, they take the property if it goes into default ( after 12months and a bit). If she has been attempting to sell for 12months then shes going to lose it, as that the absolute maximum a fair price property should take. Off to auction it will go. Odd that there is no number in the Charge, I'd expect to see the debt amount. Id love to see the finances. Im guessing they are going to be messy n expensive. Edited September 8, 2019 by spyguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Hun Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Connected to this https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08772775/charges Now, This is odd to say the least SPV for36C There are 39 shareholders. A SPV company should be only for the development and sale of this one property. The shareholders will get nothing if the development goes south and it probably explicitly blocked by the Lender to change the number of shareholders/shares after the charge is made. Although it makes no difference to the Lender because the charge is on the property and the directors give a Personal Guarantee, But why would people and companies buy shares in a SPV like this, they would have to be stupid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.