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5 hours ago, Si1 said:

I know what she's done wrong. She needs to do the wealth dance (tm) and then everything will be okay.

I wonder, if she can't afford to take a mill or so hit on this property, is that the reason she's holding out? Because she needs to cover her leverage??

Its a clusterfk.

She appears to have crowd funded the development.

Theres no sign of the money on her company. God knows who owns what n how.

Even for super prime london, 5m is a *lot*

London had 8,200 1m+ property sales. I would guess thd number over 5m is tiny.

 

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Hello, long time lurker here. I live and grew up in London and, like all of you got fed up of the ridiculous house prices in London (and much of the UK), and found myself on here.  Anyway, enough

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9 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its a clusterfk.

She appears to have crowd funded the development.

 

Is that legal and is her liability limited? What kind of corporate vehicle is the development contained in? Or is she a sole trader? Is it possible that a given property developer could act fraudulently in a case like this - say by offering unrealistic returns?

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On 06/09/2019 at 08:24, Si1 said:

Is that legal and is her liability limited? What kind of corporate vehicle is the development contained in? Or is she a sole trader? Is it possible that a given property developer could act fraudulently in a case like this - say by offering unrealistic returns?

I dont know - Im clueless to the setup.

However, I feel both she and her crowd funders are too.

Her accounts just look like a small builder - theres no sign of 5m charge anywhere, so Id guess the money is a personal debt.

The whole crowdfunding/new finsec/techsec whatever is nuts.

How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London?

 

 

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3 hours ago, spyguy said:

.

How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London?

 

 

Her husband works long hours and sounds in a high earning bracket. It also smells of distributed hidden debts etc, just a hunch.

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13 hours ago, spyguy said:

I dont know - Im clueless to the setup.

However, I feel both she and her crowd funders are too.

Her accounts just look like a small builder - theres no sign of 5m charge anywhere, so Id guess the money is a personal debt.

The whole crowdfunding/new finsec/techsec whatever is nuts.

How on Earth does a 40yo Aussy mum end up owing 5m of debt on a tarted up flat in London?

 

 

I put all the info there.

When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £

 

It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459

She originally moaned in November  last year

Denial has cost 200k maybe.  And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief.

 

Edited by Fromage Frais
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8 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

I put all the info there.

When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £

 

It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459

She originally moaned in November  last year

Denial has cost 200k maybe.  And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief.

 

Zoopla values houses likemy mum - v. optimistically.

 

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Funny one.

Only sold once in ~20 odd years

https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three.

The price history of A n B are err interesting too.

https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

 

 

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8 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

I put all the info there.

When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £

 

It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459

She originally moaned in November  last year

Denial has cost 200k maybe.  And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief.

 

Estate agency is dead. Traditional methods of marketing properties don’t work in depressed market. What else are people doing to shift highend property?

Traditional????

I thought that was slashing the price, always.

Theres no difference in shifting a cheap terrace in Darlo and or a 'high end' property in London.

 

 

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Your guru post- her tweet was Nov 18. She said it had been on the market for 12 months with no interest, so ~ Nov 2017.

Place transacted Feb 2016, so ~18 months refurb./whatnot.

Interesting that I did not find the actual company in my searches. Normally good at finding info.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09935926/charges/MBcz5tZUfC5KSp3uD-iBhW1UhjA

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencewintermeyer/2019/04/04/oaknorth-is-europes-most-valuable-fintech-and-in-profit-a-rare-breed-of-fintech-unicorn/

OakNorth is Europe’s most valuable fintech with a $2.8 Billion valuation. It has lent $4 Billion to British businesses without a single credit default. Earlier this year it secured an investment of $440 Million, the largest investment of any fintech in European history in a round led by none other than SoftBank’s Vision Fund in its first foray into European fintech.

https://www.ft.com/content/20935b34-4b13-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62


British business lender OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite more than doubling the size of its loan book.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Funny one.

Only sold once in ~20 odd years

https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three.

The price history of A n B are err interesting too.

https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

 

 

And after development hers is worth 5m?

What did she decorate it with - unicorn spit?

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Funny one.

Only sold once in ~20 odd years

https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three.

The price history of A n B are err interesting too.

https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

 

 

Thx. Nice summary of building. Price all over the place  

Those are really interesting prices with 36c dropping to a sale price of £150k. It is possible that is a freehold purchase attributed to a flat owner but you research highlights this is a flat NOT to be bought with internet research alone. 

For me, they bought this flat for £2m in 2016 and think it’s now £5m, PCL just seems mad. Refurb, nice taps, lights, daft priced £50k kitchen not substantially different from a £8k top quality kitchen without a label. Then ask £5m. The concern isn’t this formula but my concern is that it has been working and some numpties were buying in the past. 

In my little town I bought houses for £130/140 spent £25k and then made £50k for my efforts. Balmy. People do not want to paint or hang wallpaper. With the irony being the first thing they do is then pay a decorator £3k to tweak the colours before they move in. 

Now in my town that’s one thing...but London has been ‘that’ on steroids. 

I guess my question would be is it worth £2m or is it worth £5m....and I am not interested in the refurb costs because I guess (and for me it is a guess for PCL) they will have been £250k max? 

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10 minutes ago, Si1 said:

And after development hers is worth 5m?

What did she decorate it with - unicorn spit?

You used a lot less words than me....but spot on. ?

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58 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

You used a lot less words than me....but spot on. ?

I'm guessing it was foreign buyers, using borrowed money with little oversight. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/09/05/after-three-chinese-banks-are-bailed-out-how-many-more-are-at-risk?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/afterthreechinesebanksarebailedouthowmanymoreareatriskexpellingthepoison

 

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11 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

I put all the info there.

When posted to that thread it had a zoopla value of 2-2.2 million £

 

It's now 1.8 less than they paid which was 2... So ******ed

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/36c-harrington-gardens/london/sw7-4lt/31526459

She originally moaned in November  last year

Denial has cost 200k maybe.  And it looks like she is not even in the bargaining stage of grief.

 

So she paid £2,050,000 most price values it at £3,489,000

Screenshot 2019-09-08 at 12.16.17.png

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Your guru post- her tweet was Nov 18. She said it had been on the market for 12 months with no interest, so ~ Nov 2017.

Place transacted Feb 2016, so ~18 months refurb./whatnot.

Interesting that I did not find the actual company in my searches. Normally good at finding info.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09935926/charges/MBcz5tZUfC5KSp3uD-iBhW1UhjA

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencewintermeyer/2019/04/04/oaknorth-is-europes-most-valuable-fintech-and-in-profit-a-rare-breed-of-fintech-unicorn/

OakNorth is Europe’s most valuable fintech with a $2.8 Billion valuation. It has lent $4 Billion to British businesses without a single credit default. Earlier this year it secured an investment of $440 Million, the largest investment of any fintech in European history in a round led by none other than SoftBank’s Vision Fund in its first foray into European fintech.

https://www.ft.com/content/20935b34-4b13-11e9-bbc9-6917dce3dc62


British business lender OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite more than doubling the size of its loan book.

 

She's funded by a short term mortage. LTV 75% or less, ~10% year interest, maybe more. If she defaults she'll lose the SPV  (Special Purpose Vehicle)  company and  therefore the property but it will be backed by a personal guarantee. Here income doesn't matter in this situation,  they take the property if it goes into default ( after 12months and a bit). If she has been attempting to sell for 12months then shes going to lose it, as that the absolute maximum a fair price property should take. Off to auction it will go.

Odd that there is no number in the Charge, I'd expect to see the debt amount.

 

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On 05/09/2019 at 13:25, the_duke_of_hazzard said:

Picked at random:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64869471.html

Nice looking - 4 bed house for under 3.7m

Must be a hell of a flat to go for 5m.

 

Presume its this

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-78590255.html

Currently at £4.5m, down from £5.25m. Its 25% bigger at the house at 250sq M so its in the ballpark asking price. £18k per sqM.

I'd hazard a guess that she refinanced July 2018 for £3million and will be up to £3.5m now with interest.  Send to auction and that could go for £2.8m.

 

Quote

OakNorth Bank more than tripled its profits in 2018, and said it had still not suffered a single default despite 

LoL. 

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50 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

 

Presume its this

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-78590255.html

Currently at £4.5m, down from £5.25m. Its 25% bigger at the house at 250sq M so its in the ballpark asking price. £18k per sqM.

I'd hazard a guess that she refinanced July 2018 for £3million and will be up to £3.5m now with interest.  Send to auction and that could go for £2.8m.

 

LoL. 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/50726160

Yes I think these are the same.

I dont think zoopla val is to far off as a flat and lots of flats around there.

It may not be as low as 1.8 million (at this moment) but 1.8 million + x with x being the benefit of the refurbishment.

2-2.8 is a long way from 4.x ?

Saw there is  130 years on the lease left and a lovely £4500 service charge £375 a month for a flat in a house no car park (or actual space), no gym or security.

 

 

Edited by Fromage Frais
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Its overpriced, no doubt about it. Prices have fallen considerable more than PCL average on that street. Its Earls court, which is grotty, but 250sqm is a lot of space and it adds up even at 10k per m2. Difficult to give an accurate estimate of value as nothing has sold on that street since Feb.

Problem is, who wants to have millions invested when its falling in value at 4-8% a year. Its three floors, worth  more as 3x 80m2 flats and far easier  to sell. She has gone for the now non-existent 'luxury' end of the market.

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49 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Its overpriced, no doubt about it. Prices have fallen considerable more than PCL average on that street. Its Earls court, which is grotty, but 250sqm is a lot of space and it adds up even at 10k per m2. Difficult to give an accurate estimate of value as nothing has sold on that street since Feb.

Problem is, who wants to have millions invested when its falling in value at 4-8% a year. Its three floors, worth  more as 3x 80m2 flats and far easier  to sell. She has gone for the now non-existent 'luxury' end of the market.

This is a fascinating insight into the crash and the people in the middle.

She won't even realise she's been hit by a train until she's coming round in hospital and she's lost the use of her legs. Train. What train?

Edited by Si1
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8 hours ago, spyguy said:

Funny one.

Only sold once in ~20 odd years

https://houseprices.io/?q=36c+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

Maybe its my sceptical northern eyes but any property listed as a 'C' implies thats a normal house cut into at least three.

The price history of A n B are err interesting too.

https://houseprices.io/?q=36a+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

https://houseprices.io/?q=36b+Harrington+Gardens%2C+London+SW7+4LT

 

 

Quote

Latest house prices matching: '36b harrington gardens, london sw7 4lt'

3 sales found

Date Price Address
11/01/2017 £150,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT
20/10/1995 £390,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT
05/10/1995 £40,000 36b Harrington Gardens, London, SW7 4LT

 

interesting indeed .....

40k to 390k in the same month could be accounted for with a lease extension from a couple of years to a hundred plus.

390k to 150k over 22 years including 2000-2008 and 2012-2017. I can't think of an explanation. My best guess ... b in 95 consists of the part sold as c in 2016 and a small room left over sold separately as b.

Edited by ebull
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7 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

She's funded by a short term mortage. LTV 75% or less, ~10% year interest, maybe more. If she defaults she'll lose the SPV  (Special Purpose Vehicle)  company and  therefore the property but it will be backed by a personal guarantee. Here income doesn't matter in this situation,  they take the property if it goes into default ( after 12months and a bit). If she has been attempting to sell for 12months then shes going to lose it, as that the absolute maximum a fair price property should take. Off to auction it will go.

Odd that there is no number in the Charge, I'd expect to see the debt amount.

 

Id love to see the finances.

Im guessing they are going to be messy n expensive.

 

Edited by spyguy
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Connected to this

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08772775/charges

Now, This is odd to say the least

SPV for36C

There are 39 shareholders. A SPV company should be only for the development and sale of this one property. The shareholders will get nothing if the development goes south and it probably explicitly blocked  by the Lender to change the number of shareholders/shares after the charge is made. Although it makes no difference to the Lender because the charge is on the property and the directors give a Personal Guarantee, But why would people and companies buy shares in a  SPV like this, they would have to be stupid.

 

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