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Brown Urges Worker Wage Restraint

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Brown urges worker wage restraint

Pay increases for millions of public sector workers should be held down to close to 2% to limit the risk of inflation, Gordon Brown has said.

The chancellor has asked the bodies which review pay deals for doctors, teachers and some civil servants to remember the need for wage discipline.

He wants to ensure a temporary rise in inflation does not become permanent.

His warning risks confrontation with public service unions, who say many of their members are paid too little

Real private sector wage growth after tax has been falling for two years now, it's only the public sector rises of 6-7% per annum and generous new contracts that have kept the broader ONS figures positive, if he limits public payouts to 2% then the ONS figures will go flat or negative, there is no sign of the private sector balancing things given the state of the labour market.

So we have massive rises in the cost of energy, tax rises and increased borrowing costs with the the threat of secondary effects of inflation on every day goods offset by static or falling incomes and public sector unions that believe their members are underpaid and will use all of the above reasons as justification. The firemen are out on strike again in the Midlands due to pay disputes, the inevitable concessions will ripple through, paramedics are not far behind. Given the recent concession on pensions and the governments smaller majority this is starting to feel like the 70's all over again.

The BoE will have to reinflate by cutting rates, this will begin next year, injecting the patient with more of the poison is their only way out. They will be hoping the Fed has stopped raising and will start cutting in line with the US in Q2 2006. Their difficulty will be in managing any decline in sterling and putting forward a positive perception to the wider public in light of the secondary inflation that they will find hard to ignore.

Edited by BuyingBear

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I love it. Somewhere between a rock and a hard place. Any solution would require someone with B@ll5. Instead I think UK plc will carry on as per usual and let the market decide. Maybe one day we will all work for the government not producing anything and everything will be OK :rolleyes:

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How about we let public sector wage inflation go for a while & all those teachers & nurses & policemen can stop whinging and buy a home for themselves.

Great, we can impose a whopping tax on unearned income to pay for it all!

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What difference will it make to house prices? When the ravenous HPI dragon calls round at their village for his dinner, they'll just carry on sacrificing their children, or rather their children's future, to appease it.

Stretching another analogy far past its limit, it's a bit like the playground bully. These guys have been given less lunch money by their parents but they'll still keep handing it over to the bully because the alternative seems worse. Trouble is, Headmaster Brown isn't stamping out the problem, and they've no money left over for the tuck shop.

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Deja Vu circa 1975? We have rampant inflation (house prices) and the government wants us to earn less to live? North Sea Oil/Gas is almost gone and the government must look around to see what else can generate wealth as HPI and MEW cannot sustain the pyramid scheme forever. Taxes must rise and rise steeply to pay for Gordon's economic miracle--owt for nowt.

12 months from now: universal wage control, 30% higher council taxes, 45% top rate income tax, strikes, 30% increases in fuel prices, petrol tax up, Gordon in number 10 blaming the world wide recession, unemployment rising at similar rates to the early 70's, house prices dropping like a stone but FTBs deciding to pass and move overseas.

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Sounds good to me. Then it'll be time to raise the rates and lower the rent. What a smashing idea!

TTRTR, you're a genius! The bears will love you for that little pearl...

Somehow I think you forgot to take into account the rampant HPI I will enjoy when all these public sector employees are climbing over each other to buy.

:D

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12 months from now: universal wage control, 30% higher council taxes, 45% top rate income tax, strikes, 30% increases in fuel prices, petrol tax up, Gordon in number 10 blaming the world wide recession, unemployment rising at similar rates to the early 70's, house prices dropping like a stone but FTBs deciding to pass and move overseas.

Spot on. Nail on the head. :ph34r:

Iv'e spent the past two years saving like buggery.....to buy a house? No, to make sure that when the time comes me and the Mrs are solvent enough to leave before it's tool late. Iv'e even gone to the trouble of taking an internationally recognised finance qualification so that I can find work easily overseas.

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The firemen are out on strike again in the Midlands due to pay disputes

The Midlands dispute is about job cuts and shift changes that wll lead to less fire cover and more deaths. Funny how even with massive council tax increases that want to cut back essential services, pay was settled last year, every strike from now on will be brigades trying to keep fire engines and protect the public.

Fire Brigade's union

but point taken about the rest of them though, nurses , paramedics, teachers.

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The BoE will have to reinflate by cutting rates, this will begin next year, injecting the patient with more of the poison is their only way out.

Which would mean higher inflation, which would mean higher wage demands or a lower standard of living. Brown really, really doesn't want to get into a cycle like the 70s where high inflation causes high wage demands which cause higher inflation.... otherwise we will be seeing 15% interest rates again in a few years.

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Which would mean higher inflation, which would mean higher wage demands or a lower standard of living. Brown really, really doesn't want to get into a cycle like the 70s where high inflation causes high wage demands which cause higher inflation.... otherwise we will be seeing 15% interest rates again in a few years.

Sounds like the same grounds are forming again that caused the Great Crash of the late 80's. Wage inflation leading to restraining interest rates. Does not look like IR will drop anytime soon in this climate and all those low introductory IR are fast dissappearing which may be behind the 60% rise in the number of CCJs for mortgage arrears. Mix in rising unemployment caused by slowdown in consumer demand and dropping consumer confidence and VOILA: HPC.

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I can't see the public sector being very happy with this.

Gordon: Hello Mrs Nurse/Mrs Teacher, would you mind not having a big pay rise this year because we've foocked up with economy and need to get back on track.

Mrs Nurse/Mrs Teacher: OK Gordon, no problem. Let us know when you can give us a pay rise but until then we'll just keep quietly working for the good of the country. By the way, is there any chance of lowering the percentage of property we can buy on a shared ownership scheme to..say 10% because that is all we can afford.

I don't think so do you?

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I dont think the problem is with our nurses and teacher as regards pay rises, I have a friend who works for the justice system who aren't in the public eye as much but these guys every 3 years negotiate a rise which for as long as he can remember is around 14% over 3 years. As a private sector worker I dont usually get a rise of more than 3% a year if I'm lucky(2% this year). Also the overtime and expenses are unbelievable. Although I accept that I wouldn't be complaining if I was in his job so maybe I'm just jealous. :)

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I dont think the problem is with our nurses and teacher as regards pay rises, I have a friend who works for the justice system who aren't in the public eye as much but these guys every 3 years negotiate a rise which for as long as he can remember is around 14% over 3 years. As a private sector worker I dont usually get a rise of more than 3% a year if I'm lucky(2% this year). Also the overtime and expenses are unbelievable.

Indeed, there's only a few public workers that we actually identify with, like doctors, nurses, policemen, teachers mainly because they're the only ones' seen to be actually doing something useful for the public, in reality this is rather naive because sadly they only form fraction of the real public sector, in the real world there are armies of functionaries carrying out pointless tasks, creating meaningless paperwork and endless policy documents so they can hit some arbitrary target that has no basis in the real world. They create a maze for themselves for its own sake and then congratulate each other for getting lost in it. Their ability to introduce more regulation, create as many quangos as possible and increase their own ranks is their judgement of sucess and progress.

It's rather like when you ask a child what they'd like to be when they grow up, they'll most likely say "I want to a be a milkman, postman, or Wayne Rooney", they're unlikely to say "I want to be a loss adjuster, corporate finance officer or slum landlord" (though some might), the same applies in the public sector, the natural perception of a public servant as being a useful and virtuous frontline job that we actively identify with is extremely childish, in the real world they're more likey to be a functionary or administrator.

There are more administrators in the NHS than beds, there are more administrators than doctors and nurses in the NHS, like the year before, and the years before that and this year alone they will recruit more administrators than doctors, nurses or frontline staff combined. It is an endless process, more administrators begets more administrators and when things begin to bite the cut banks wont be within their own ranks, they will close facilities, sack nurses and doctors, leave medical students out in the cold... anything but cut back in where the real problem is.

Hertsmere MP James Clappison said - "How is it that at a time when the Government is boasting that money is being poured into the NHS we have a reduced amount of money being spent on services?"

I think we know the answer to that one James!

Edited by BuyingBear

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I dont think the problem is with our nurses and teacher as regards pay rises, I have a friend who works for the justice system who aren't in the public eye as much but these guys every 3 years negotiate a rise which for as long as he can remember is around 14% over 3 years. As a private sector worker I dont usually get a rise of more than 3% a year if I'm lucky(2% this year). Also the overtime and expenses are unbelievable. Although I accept that I wouldn't be complaining if I was in his job so maybe I'm just jealous. :)

I say nurses and teachers because that is what was reported on the news 'Gordon has asked doctors, nurses teachers to take into account higher oil prices when considering wage increases' Not because I am singling them out within the public sector.

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I say nurses and teachers because that is what was reported on the news 'Gordon has asked doctors, nurses teachers to take into account higher oil prices when considering wage increases' Not because I am singling them out within the public sector.

It's good spin, it makes it appear that the government is being mean to useful and virtuous public servants, it's a better headline than "government tells hoards of pointless non-jobbers, who only exist to keep the employment figures down and Labour votes up, to take it easy on pay settlements despite persistent 6% rises each of and every year and a copper plated pension at 60 guaranteed (or 55 if they become a pain in the neck)"

Try the following headlines, "Farmers initiate pest control measures" or "Farmers decide to kill lots of cuddly animals in cold blood", hrm, how does that register on your spinometer?

Edited by BuyingBear

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Guest Guy_Montag

I dont think the problem is with our nurses and teacher as regards pay rises, I have a friend who works for the justice system who aren't in the public eye as much but these guys every 3 years negotiate a rise which for as long as he can remember is around 14% over 3 years. As a private sector worker I dont usually get a rise of more than 3% a year if I'm lucky(2% this year). Also the overtime and expenses are unbelievable. Although I accept that I wouldn't be complaining if I was in his job so maybe I'm just jealous. :)

I think I'm in the wrong part of public service, I get 3% if I'm lucky too, I get no overtime, I am contracted for 37.5 hrs, but expected to work until the work is done (everyone here works unpaid overtime - last week I didn't leave before 6:30 any day & left after 8 twice) and I was not the last out the door. I have lost money every time I have claimed expenses (everything has to be receipted and I can't claim for things like foreign exchange fees when I'm abroad).

Edited: I'm contracted for 37.5, not 27.5 hours per week.

Edited by Guy_Montag

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I think I'm in the wrong part of public service, I get 3% if I'm lucky too, I get no overtime, I am contracted for 27.5 hrs, but expected to work until the work is done (everyone here works unpaid overtime - last week I didn't leave before 6:30 any day & left after 8 twice) and I was not the last out the door. I have lost money every time I have claimed expenses (everything has to be receipted and I can't claim for things like foreign exchange fees when I'm abroad).

That is my experiance also.

We got 2% as I remember.

Most people working in the public sector are earning far less than equivalent in the private.

An IT contractor working on site charges typicaly #1000.00 per day whereas an average employed IT worker gets #200 per week.

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Deja Vu circa 1975? We have rampant inflation (house prices) and the government wants us to earn less to live? North Sea Oil/Gas is almost gone and the government must look around to see what else can generate wealth as HPI and MEW cannot sustain the pyramid scheme forever. Taxes must rise and rise steeply to pay for Gordon's economic miracle--owt for nowt.

12 months from now: universal wage control, 30% higher council taxes, 45% top rate income tax, strikes, 30% increases in fuel prices, petrol tax up, Gordon in number 10 blaming the world wide recession, unemployment rising at similar rates to the early 70's, house prices dropping like a stone but FTBs deciding to pass and move overseas.

America is really starting to pick up!!! gas prices are down, property has stopped rising and employers are even starting to hire again.

That's not just what I see on TV it's with my eyes as well.

Gordon has just ballsed it all up, I'm not sure that I ever want to return to the UK cos it just wont be the same after 3 terms of Labour.

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I think I'm in the wrong part of public service, I get 3% if I'm lucky too, I get no overtime, I am contracted for 37.5 hrs, but expected to work until the work is done (everyone here works unpaid overtime - last week I didn't leave before 6:30 any day & left after 8 twice) and I was not the last out the door. I have lost money every time I have claimed expenses (everything has to be receipted and I can't claim for things like foreign exchange fees when I'm abroad).

Edited: I'm contracted for 37.5, not 27.5 hours per week.

Just as an example of what they get away with, there is a scam where they carry a few items (computer leads or something) in their car to and from work and this counts as them carrying equipment in their cars which they claim for, even though the leads are not for anything. But the people who authorise this are also doing it so what chance do you have really.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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