wighty Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Yeah - cant see High Street recovering. Just charity shops and bars, restaurants etc. will be the town centre. Maybe a good thing. Let the people live in the centre and fan out for work. Amazon etc. will go strength to strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 32 minutes ago, wighty said: Yeah - cant see High Street recovering. Just charity shops and bars, restaurants etc. will be the town centre. Maybe a good thing. Let the people live in the centre and fan out for work. Amazon etc. will go strength to strength. Shopping centres need to move from supplying 'stuff' (that the internet will do faster and cheaper) to supplying 'experiences'. Problem is that is expensive and can't support the current rent levels. Commercial property LL are gonna be screwed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, msi said: Shopping centres need to move from supplying 'stuff' (that the internet will do faster and cheaper) to supplying 'experiences'. Problem is that is expensive and can't support the current rent levels. Commercial property LL are gonna be screwed! Tax is a major, major issue. Rents have come down significantly in last 5 years. Shoe zone IIRC were saying that 5 years ago business rates were 30% of their premises costs, rent and bills 70%. Now business rates are 70% and everything else 30%. Madness. Amazon and Co get off lightly. Like taxing number of horses as proxy of transport used, buisness rates made sense once but times have moved on Councils really will be screwed unless the law changes soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coypondboy Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 3 hours ago, captainb said: Tax is a major, major issue. Rents have come down significantly in last 5 years. Shoe zone IIRC were saying that 5 years ago business rates were 30% of their premises costs, rent and bills 70%. Now business rates are 70% and everything else 30%. Madness. Amazon and Co get off lightly. Like taxing number of horses as proxy of transport used, buisness rates made sense once but times have moved on Councils really will be screwed unless the law changes soon. The councils have to get money to pay for all those gold plated pensions in local government/police and fire service but if not careful they could go bankrupt just see what is happening the US for property taxes needed to fund their local government pensions same thing will happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnylattej Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 5 hours ago, captainb said: Tax is a major, major issue. Rents have come down significantly in last 5 years. Shoe zone IIRC were saying that 5 years ago business rates were 30% of their premises costs, rent and bills 70%. Now business rates are 70% and everything else 30%. Madness. Amazon and Co get off lightly. Like taxing number of horses as proxy of transport used, buisness rates made sense once but times have moved on Councils really will be screwed unless the law changes soon. The councils have played a large part in the collapse of the high street. High rates, outrageous parking charges if you can find a space, incredible planning restrictions that resulted in out-of-town expansion that assumes every-one has a car. As a result, all the major supermarkets are out-of-town, leaving the high street to Poundland, bookies and charity shops. And the one that really gets me, miserable traffic management. I live 1.7 miles from the town centre. If it's raining, and I decide to drive, it can often take 50 minutes. In the Summer I walk, takes 35 minutes. Redevelopment or repurposing of department stores in city centres is likely to fail, as the planners will say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, captainb said: Tax is a major, major issue. Rents have come down significantly in last 5 years. Shoe zone IIRC were saying that 5 years ago business rates were 30% of their premises costs, rent and bills 70%. Now business rates are 70% and everything else 30%. Madness. Amazon and Co get off lightly. Like taxing number of horses as proxy of transport used, buisness rates made sense once but times have moved on Councils really will be screwed unless the law changes soon. Very hard to make any kind of profit for a small business with a business on the high street or any street......rents, rates, tax, utilities and staff costs fixed costs, wipe out everything earned Monday to Friday...only sales made on a Saturday worth working all week for others benefit. Not a level playing field, not worth getting out of bed for, because SME are not valued, only gains made from property assets is important in this country not small businesses. Therefore if councils will lose out on business rates and rents, parking fees and from people coming into town because there is no reason to........only way they can recuperate lost funds is to tax land and buildings, revaluate value of homes and tax accordingly.......a kind of LVT. Business has given up, why work when can sit at home and make more from your property and taxed less for it, with interest on debt from money don't have is almost free......happy days....... something fundamental with the economy is not working and not being seen to be getting any better, only worse. Are TPTB brave enough to do anything about it? Edited January 26, 2021 by winkie Spell check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, winkie said: Very hard to make any kind of profit for a small business with a business on the high street or any street......rents, rates, tax, utilities and staff costs fixed costs, wipe out everything earned Monday to Friday...only sales made on a Saturday worth working all week for others benefit. Not a level playing field, not worth getting out of bed for, because SME are not valued, only gains made from property assets is important in this country not small businesses. Therefore if councils will lose out on business rates and rents, parking fees and from people coming into town because there is no reason to........only way they can recuperate lost funds is to tax land and buildings, revaluate value of homes and tax accordingly.......a kind of LVT. Business has given up, why work when can sit at home and make more from your property and taxed less for it, with interest on debt from money don't have is almost free......happy days....... something fundamental with the economy is not working and not being seen to be getting any better, only worse. Are TPTB brave enough to do anything about it? It also stops people developing a side hustle or hobby for preparation of losing their job / income. IMO, they are in denial of the severerity of the coming financial collapse when furlough . repo ban shortly ends For example, I am currently trying to get commuity groups to distribute very low cost fixings & building materials to build shelters for various purposes to help deal with this coming crisis & am struggling to generate interest Edited January 26, 2021 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: It also stops people developing a side hustle or hobby for preparation of losing their job / income. IMO, they are in denial of the severerity of the coming financial collapse when furlough . repo ban shortly ends I am currently trying to get commuity groups to distribute very low cost building materials to build shelters for various purposes to help deal with this coming crisis & am struggling to generate interest Good for you, I think we should all help. I can understand people not wanting to be involved with temporary shelters. It’s a difficult one as these are sometimes set alight by the locals who don’t want homeless on the doorstep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, winkie said: Very hard to make any kind of profit for a small business with a business on the high street or any street......rents, rates, tax, utilities and staff costs fixed costs, wipe out everything earned Monday to Friday...only sales made on a Saturday worth working all week for others benefit. Not a level playing field, not worth getting out of bed for, because SME are not valued, only gains made from property assets is important in this country not small businesses. Therefore if councils will lose out on business rates and rents, parking fees and from people coming into town because there is no reason to........only way they can recuperate lost funds is to tax land and buildings, revaluate value of homes and tax accordingly.......a kind of LVT. Business has given up, why work when can sit at home and make more from your property and taxed less for it, with interest on debt from money don't have is almost free......happy days....... something fundamental with the economy is not working and not being seen to be getting any better, only worse. Are TPTB brave enough to do anything about it? I looked into buying a high street business. Long story shortened, people only want small units now, the rates on large units plus staff costs mean it’s not worth it. I can see many getting replaced with apartments. Retail will go online, food, hairdressers and coffee shops will be the only thing left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: It also stops people developing a side hustle or hobby for preparation of losing their job / income. IMO, they are in denial of the severerity of the coming financial collapse when furlough . repo ban shortly ends For example, I am currently trying to get commuity groups to distribute very low cost fixings & building materials to build shelters for various purposes to help deal with this coming crisis & am struggling to generate interest I wish you well in your endeavors.....there will be many that will be in a position they have never had to face before, affected by employment issues, housing insecurity and lack of skills and training, the crisis is a shock waiting to happen......at the other extreme there will be some that will find they have never had it so good.....will they turn the blind eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insane Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 hours ago, skinnylattej said: The councils have played a large part in the collapse of the high street. High rates, outrageous parking charges if you can find a space, incredible planning restrictions that resulted in out-of-town expansion that assumes every-one has a car. As a result, all the major supermarkets are out-of-town, leaving the high street to Poundland, bookies and charity shops. And the one that really gets me, miserable traffic management. I live 1.7 miles from the town centre. If it's raining, and I decide to drive, it can often take 50 minutes. In the Summer I walk, takes 35 minutes. Redevelopment or repurposing of department stores in city centres is likely to fail, as the planners will say no. Agreed One of the worst things I think councils ever did was paving in the roads in many of these town centres. The pedestrian Oasis that they were meant to achieve have never materialised they are often ugly expanses of soulless concreate. The other problem is the re routing of the Original Roads that became pedestrianised is often a miss mash of twists and turns , linking old roads with new bits tacked on here and there. Don't get me started on some of the one way systems. There are three of these depressing retail wastelands near me Ilford, Barking and Romford out of the three I can suffer Romford but never go near the other two unless I absolutely have to. We also now have Lakeside and not as close Bluewater with free and ample parking , clean walkways and a much better overall appearance. These large out of town dedicated shopping centres offer a much better experience however the last time I went to Lakeside there were a lot of empty shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfinger Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Insane said: Agreed One of the worst things I think councils ever did was paving in the roads in many of these town centres. The pedestrian Oasis that they were meant to achieve have never materialised they are often ugly expanses of soulless concreate. The other problem is the re routing of the Original Roads that became pedestrianised is often a miss mash of twists and turns , linking old roads with new bits tacked on here and there. Don't get me started on some of the one way systems. There are three of these depressing retail wastelands near me Ilford, Barking and Romford out of the three I can suffer Romford but never go near the other two unless I absolutely have to. We also now have Lakeside and not as close Bluewater with free and ample parking , clean walkways and a much better overall appearance. These large out of town dedicated shopping centres offer a much better experience however the last time I went to Lakeside there were a lot of empty shops. I only go to Lakeside for Costco's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Retail is at death’s door – and tinkering with business rates won’t save it The fact that buyers rescuing Debenhams and Arcadia don’t want their 500 shops shows how deep the high street crisis is https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/31/retail-is-at-deaths-door-and-tinkering-with-business-rates-wont-save-it Quote The pandemic has accelerated this Darwinian process and the fallout in job losses and empty stores will be frightening in the short term, even if renewal is possible further down the line. Over the past two years, according to the British Retail Consortium, one in every 50 shops has permanently closed, and without intervention at this desperate hour, it argues, this number will “only go up”. There are big issues that need to be resolved if high streets are to recover from these worst of times. The crisis has brought about a much-needed reset of rents, but what of business rates, currently on hold as part of the government’s emergency business support measures? If the owners of Arcadia and Debenhams’ stores can’t find new tenants, they will be on the hook for a £141m bill. Can’t the government think of a way to better to tax booming internet businesses? If unnecessary shop closures and job losses are to be avoided, business rates relief will at the very least have to be extended beyond April (as has already happened in Scotland). Let’s face it, non-essential shops have been closed since Christmas and may not even be open by the time their bills for 2021 land... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) Debenhams bows out after 200 years leaving town centres counting the cost https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/15/debenhams-bows-out-after-200-years-leaving-town-centres-counting-the-cost Debenhams leaves a huge hole’: shoppers and staff react to store closures https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/15/debenhams-shoppers-staff-store-closures-department-stores Edited May 15, 2021 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 On 26/01/2021 at 22:26, Fishfinger said: I only go to Lakeside for Costco's! you been to rogers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Hedge funds secure bulk of £300m recovered from Debenhams Councils with shopping centres, landlords suppliers get burned https://www.businesstelegraph.co.uk/hedge-funds-secure-bulk-of-300m-recovered-from-debenhams/ https://www.ft.com/content/3c02899f-1d86-481f-9a31-63d10c4c71bc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/bournemouth-debenhams-replaced-bobbys-department-20568962 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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