Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
interestrateripoff

Irish Try To Eradicate Ghosts Of A Housing Crash

Recommended Posts

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/world/europe/legacy-of-a-crash-ghost-estates-haunt-ireland.html?ref=business&_r=0

ATHLONE, Ireland — The demolition getting underway here recently was in a housing complex where a 2-year-old, probably chasing a dog, had climbed through a fence last year and drowned in a pool of water behind a dozen partly constructed homes.

John Burke, hired to do the job, marveled that the half-built houses he was about to bulldoze once carried a price tag of more than $450,000. He estimated that he was about to grind about $500,000 worth of abandoned construction into gravel.

“You can’t do anything with these houses,” he said, as his workers made neat piles of the billboard posters surrounding the complex that once promised idyllic living. “The cost to finish them would be too high. There is no market like that here. There are no jobs. And leaving them unattended is dangerous.”

I wonder what the scrap value of these houses are, anything worth recovering from them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/world/europe/legacy-of-a-crash-ghost-estates-haunt-ireland.html?ref=business&_r=0

I wonder what the scrap value of these houses are, anything worth recovering from them?

Ooh yeah - think of all those "original features" that estate agents get so wet about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For gods sake! why not just give them to the young Irish?

y'know, the young who are leaving the country. What future has Ireland got, with idiotic policies like this.

Edited by SleepyHead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For gods sake! why not just give them to the young Irish?

y'know, the young who are leaving the country. What future has Ireland got, with idiotic policies like this.

Hi,

That was mentioned on thepropertypin - Irish hpc site - TPTB should at least offer these with no reserve before demolition. Having said that, the cost of making straight may be more than they re worth. First I heard of the really shoddy building work tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Government is evil. Wherever, whenever. The soviets exported and destroyed crops to impose a famine on the Ukrainian people during the USSRs infancy. It matters not there is an excess of housing, if the Irish government scumbags wanted to inflate prices, they'd gladly destroy housing stock, even if people were sleeping rough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of horror stories from the first great depression in the US were caused by FDR's policy of burning food. Piles of food were bought by the federal government at above fair market value and burned. I'm sure he had some great Keynesian type logical reason for doing this, I just can't think down to that level to work out what it is. The result was, as you can imagine, expensive food and hungry people.

Any real economist will telll you that destruction is always negative. I assume, however, the Irish state has some kind of clever justification for smashing up these houses. Knocking them down so that someone can else can build them again to stimulate the economy or some such. Hurts my head just thinking about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Government is evil. Wherever, whenever. The soviets exported and destroyed crops to impose a famine on the Ukrainian people during the USSRs infancy. It matters not there is an excess of housing, if the Irish government scumbags wanted to inflate prices, they'd gladly destroy housing stock, even if people were sleeping rough.

Or closer to home, John Prescott's insane Pathfinder program? The BBC, strangely,have ignored it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

That was mentioned on thepropertypin - Irish hpc site - TPTB should at least offer these with no reserve before demolition. Having said that, the cost of making straight may be more than they re worth. First I heard of the really shoddy building work tho.

the cost to do them up iS what they are worth....this suggests that there are homes available, cheaper and finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the cost to do them up iS what they are worth....this suggests that there are homes available, cheaper and finished.

Quite right, you could get a average 2007/8 4 bed semi in good condition for about €100k (£80k)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UK's obsession with keeping old property seems stranger and stranger to me.

You wouldn't keep old cars on the road and protest against people making new ones, then slapping conservation orders on ford model T's that everyone would be driving around in.

Very strange, I just cannot understand why everyone wants to live in tatty, crumbling, energy inefficient housing. the next spike in fuell prices is going to leave a lot of cold people in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UK's obsession with keeping old property seems stranger and stranger to me.

You wouldn't keep old cars on the road and protest against people making new ones, then slapping conservation orders on ford model T's that everyone would be driving around in.

Very strange, I just cannot understand why everyone wants to live in tatty, crumbling, energy inefficient housing. the next spike in fuell prices is going to leave a lot of cold people in the UK.

The point isn't to make everyone live in the same old house type. The point is that there is housing here, not ideal or finished, but existant in some form. Rather than force the banks and owners to liquidate losses and face reality by selling them on the open market - whether for a pound or less - the authorities are encouraging demolishment. That is wrong.

I actually much prefer older houses in three countries I am very familiar with housing in - UK, AUs, and NZ. Oh, and HK too. Tend to be bigger spaces, higher ceilings, thicker walls, and less glass (the builders friend cos it's cheap and breaks after he is gone).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually much prefer older houses in three countries I am very familiar with housing in - UK, AUs, and NZ. Oh, and HK too. Tend to be bigger spaces, higher ceilings, thicker walls, and less glass (the builders friend cos it's cheap and breaks after he is gone).

But newbuilds have notoriously stingy window sizes. Even the 80's built house I live in now, has pretty small windows.

The 70's built council house I grew up in had larger windows all round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is, if Ireland gives these properties to the young to finish themselves, then they can work for low salaries.

The UK government should do the same. Want us to compete with China, take our massive housing costs out of the equation and bingo... cheap workers!

No need to import them from Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, and risk social breakdown due to overcrowding and dangerously inflated housing costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For gods sake! why not just give them to the young Irish?

y'know, the young who are leaving the country. What future has Ireland got, with idiotic policies like this.

In some cases there will be limited employment opportunities near the development. There is also no shortage of housing in Ireland.

The work required on a lot of these is significant. Some have not been attached to water and electricity. The cost of finishing a new estate may run into millions for houses that no one really wants to live in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But newbuilds have notoriously stingy window sizes. Even the 80's built house I live in now, has pretty small windows.

The 70's built council house I grew up in had larger windows all round.

This is due to energy efficiency regs.

Rabbit hutch maker-seller has a variety of ways to reach the required efficiency. He can -

a) Spend 5k more putting in increased insulation, triple-glazing, or whatever.

or B) Shrink window sizes by 33% since double glazing is much less thermally insulating than brick walls.

Now knowing how crap these builders are which do you think they choose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In some cases there will be limited employment opportunities near the development. There is also no shortage of housing in Ireland.

The work required on a lot of these is significant. Some have not been attached to water and electricity. The cost of finishing a new estate may run into millions for houses that no one really wants to live in.

Then they can offer them for sale at a no reserve auction - with the caveat that they must be made safe if bought. If noone bids then demolish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is due to energy efficiency regs.

Rabbit hutch maker-seller has a variety of ways to reach the required efficiency. He can -

a) Spend 5k more putting in increased insulation, triple-glazing, or whatever.

or B) Shrink window sizes by 33% since double glazing is much less thermally insulating than brick walls.

Now knowing how crap these builders are which do you think they choose?

I'd never want to live somewhere with small windows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is due to energy efficiency regs.

Rabbit hutch maker-seller has a variety of ways to reach the required efficiency. He can -

a) Spend 5k more putting in increased insulation, triple-glazing, or whatever.

or B) Shrink window sizes by 33% since double glazing is much less thermally insulating than brick walls.

Now knowing how crap these builders are which do you think they choose?

Sounds about right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point isn't to make everyone live in the same old house type. The point is that there is housing here, not ideal or finished, but existant in some form. Rather than force the banks and owners to liquidate losses and face reality by selling them on the open market - whether for a pound or less - the authorities are encouraging demolishment. That is wrong.

I actually much prefer older houses in three countries I am very familiar with housing in - UK, AUs, and NZ. Oh, and HK too. Tend to be bigger spaces, higher ceilings, thicker walls, and less glass (the builders friend cos it's cheap and breaks after he is gone).

I quite like living in new houses with nice thick wall insulation, thermally efficient design (facing the sun), energy efficient windows + boiler, parking (old houses were not designed for cars).

The Victorian house we had:

1, Did not have damp course, although we had much work done it was still damp - this was no reflection on the work carried out.

2, Had no cavity walls - they were brick skin with a crumbly back fill

3, The horse hair in the plaster had deteriorated so it was all crumbling

4, Useless chimneys taking up lots of room in every room - complete wae of time when you have gas.

5, retro fitted bathroom - house was not designed for a toilet or bathroom.

6, retro fitted electrics from the 70's

7, old style double glazing and doors which was cold

8, NO parking - biggest issue for me.

9, built over 4 floors with lots of steps - not pratical

10, no outside parking as the roads were not designed for cars

11, lead water pipes coming into the house

12, rotten wood here and there

13, rotten windowsills

Basically the same condition as your average BTL hovel - properties of this age should be routinely demolished and replaced with houses that have parking, higher energy rating and damp course.

I find the houses that people complain about here in Ireland built during the boom are far superior to any 'period' house in the UK.

I can't complain about many of the 70's and 80's builds that did have cavity walls and parking, but even now many of them need total refurbishment and replacement.

It should be an aim for the country to have no less than 50% of it's housing stock energy efficient BER c+ rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then they can offer them for sale at a no reserve auction - with the caveat that they must be made safe if bought. If no one bids then demolish.

I do not think it would be practical to finish an estate like that. Selling an individual house on a building site with half-finished roads and no connection to the utilities, cannot be done cheaply on a piecemeal basis. The whole lot needs to be finished off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be of interest, but here in Co.Galway there are hundreds and hundreds of finished and 1/2 finished houses in towns, villages and in the countryside.

Almost none of them are on the market, they are being withheld using forbearance measures against debtors who are in negative equity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be of interest, but here in Co.Galway there are hundreds and hundreds of finished and 1/2 finished houses in towns, villages and in the countryside.

Almost none of them are on the market, they are being withheld using forbearance measures against debtors who are in negative equity.

I was curious...

I could conceivably work from home if I could travel to clients every now or then, I could relocate to another place with lower costs (principally housing, other aspects might be more expensive - but these are in turn linked to housing/property costs). I would probably spend a reasonable amount in my new location and therefore help local employment. Low taxes, speaking English would be positives.

Looking at daft.ie - Athlone 3+ bedrooms, I thought the cheapest was 155k EUR. Then I realised the sort order was wrong. Resorting, I get 25k EUR for a renovating project and 37k for a 4/5 bed in fair condition needing redecoration.

I don't see any detached bungalows under 200k EUR within walking distance of town - which is what would appeal. Same for Galway I think.

A lot of the ones I've seen previously are out in the country, often seemingly on their own.

I agree, the forbearance needs to end, people should be able to get cheaper housing, the economy should be left to function, not ossify around the zombies.

Overall, not enough choice, prices for GOOD housing not low enough YET.

With the young leaving, I guess the older, over mortgaged, in forbearance, multiple property owning, negative equity crowd will outvote the others. Pity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   224 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.