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New York City Puts E-Cigarettes Under Smoking Ban

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/new-york-city-puts-e-cigarettes-under-smoking-ban

The New York City council has voted to add electronic cigarettes to the city's strict smoking ban, in what could be the latest of many anti-tobacco measures put in place by the outgoing mayor, Michael Bloomberg.

Only weeks after New York became the first major city to raise the legal age for buying tobacco to 21, the city council voted 43-8 to add electronic cigarettes to the city's Smoke-Free Air Act.

Bloomberg's other initiatives have included bans on trans fats and attempting to limit the sale of large sugary drinks. If the mayor signs the bill as expected, smoking e-cigarettes - or "vaping" - would be prohibited at public and private venues such as beaches, parks, restaurants and office buildings after 120 days.

The council speaker, Christine Quinn, who sponsored the bill, said at a press conference that the public use of e-cigarettes threatened to undermine enforcement of anti-smoking laws because their appearance was similar to traditional cigarettes and could "renormalise smoking in public places."

More cities / countries to follow?

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The New York City council has voted to add electronic cigarettes to the city's strict smoking ban, in what could be the latest of many anti-tobacco measures put in place by the outgoing mayor, Michael Bloomberg.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever - e-cigs don't contain tobacco !

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The vast majority of people who smoke say they would like to give up. Nicotine is highly addictive for the vast majority of people. The idea that companies should be freely allowed to get you addicted and effectively enslave you is abhorrent.

There doesn't seem to be any benefits whatsoever to these things unless they are a cigarette replacement. In which case, keep them to the areas where cigarettes are allowed and massively increase the age of being able to purchase and control their 'look'.And tax them lots.

The benefit is the same as any drug - you like the effect. And as ecigs don't cause any harm to anybody else (do they even cause any harm to the user?) then people should be left alone to enjoy them.

This "enslavement" idea is too simplistic anyway. I enjoy ciggies for their taste and effect but am fine without them, in posting this I had a quick think back to when I last had one; it's at least a month. I can take them or leave them.

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The vast majority of people who smoke say they would like to give up. Nicotine is highly addictive for the vast majority of people. The idea that companies should be freely allowed to get you addicted and effectively enslave you is abhorrent.

There doesn't seem to be any benefits whatsoever to these things unless they are a cigarette replacement. In which case, keep them to the areas where cigarettes are allowed and massively increase the age of being able to purchase and control their 'look'.And tax them lots.

The pretext for smoking bans is to protect non-smokers from exposure.

If we're moving beyond that and entering into state coercion territory (for your own good/ think about the children/ etc etc) then the news is Prohibition doesn't work.

I can also think of all sorts of useless (sic.) things, chemical and psychological, people are hooked onto that could also go onto the prescription list, starting with caffeine and gambling.

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The vast majority of people who smoke say they would like to give up. Nicotine is highly addictive for the vast majority of people. The idea that companies should be freely allowed to get you addicted and effectively enslave you is abhorrent.

There doesn't seem to be any benefits whatsoever to these things unless they are a cigarette replacement. In which case, keep them to the areas where cigarettes are allowed and massively increase the age of being able to purchase and control their 'look'.And tax them lots.

I .The vast majority of smokers do not want to give up. You are just quoting ASH propaganda which has no basis in fact.

2 Abhorrent to you maybe, study the word 'liberty' more closely.

3 Ecigs only contain nicotine, propylene glycol and glycerine, unlike the 5000 plus chemicals in cigarettes. So, why do you say there do not seem to be any benefits?

4 What possible justification do you have for taxing ecigs? If they save lives, why do you want to kill people?

The trouble we have is that too many people have put themselves on a high moral plain..

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I .The vast majority of smokers do not want to give up. You are just quoting ASH propaganda which has no basis in fact.

2 Abhorrent to you maybe, study the word 'liberty' more closely.

3 Ecigs only contain nicotine, propylene glycol and glycerine, unlike the 5000 plus chemicals in cigarettes. So, why do you say there do not seem to be any benefits?

4 What possible justification do you have for taxing ecigs? If they save lives, why do you want to kill people?

The trouble we have is that too many people have put themselves on a high moral plain..

I stopped smoking a year ago after 40 years. I did not WANT to stop smoking, I stopped to deprive the government of the tax on them.

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I stopped smoking a year ago after 40 years. I did not WANT to stop smoking, I stopped to deprive the government of the tax on them.

The important thing right now, as a matter of urgency, is to tax and restrict e-cigs to the same punitive extent as tobacco products.

That way government revenues are secured, a competitive threat to the tobacco industry is neutralised and a coercive, puritanical streak in a vocal minority of the population is gratified all the Little Children will be safe, for ever.

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...actually, on thinking about it, e-cigs should probably be taxed more than tobacco products

Vaping currently looks like a significantly(?) potential less harmful habit than smoking and therefore should command a 'Health Premium' over regular fags

  • Vapers will be placing an additional burden on the health and pension system by living longer
  • Every Puritan knows that anything enjoyable must be bad for you and if God's Wrath is not going to be manifest in the form of emphysema or cancer then an eye-watering tax it will have to be

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...actually, on thinking about it, e-cigs should probably be taxed more than tobacco products

Vaping currently looks like a significantly(?) potential less harmful habit than smoking and therefore should command a 'Health Premium' over regular fags

  • Vapers will be placing an additional burden on the health and pension system by living longer
  • Every Puritan knows that anything enjoyable must be bad for you and if God's Wrath is not going to be manifest in the form of emphysema or cancer then an eye-watering tax it will have to be

In the same vain, the full harness seat belts in my car should be highly taxed. They may enabl me to live longer and cost the state more and do enable me to enjoy the car more. You can corner much faster if you don't have to hang on to the wheel.

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They could just paint them all pink and then people would look silly and def not like they were actually smoking.

Or put those twirly out things on them so when you inhale something silly happens.

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The vast majority of people who smoke say they would like to give up. Nicotine is highly addictive for the vast majority of people. The idea that companies should be freely allowed to get you addicted and effectively enslave you is abhorrent.

There doesn't seem to be any benefits whatsoever to these things unless they are a cigarette replacement. In which case, keep them to the areas where cigarettes are allowed and massively increase the age of being able to purchase and control their 'look'.And tax them lots.

Jeez, that's heavy. You the Man. Chill.

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The vast majority of people who smoke say they would like to give up.

Not in my experience.

Nicotine is highly addictive for the vast majority of people. The idea that companies should be freely allowed to get you addicted and effectively enslave you is abhorrent.

I'm a smoker. I find nicotine far less addictive than your average person finds, say, television. I can easily go a day or two without a fix.

There doesn't seem to be any benefits whatsoever to these things unless they are a cigarette replacement.

Yes, and cigarettes are great- if they didn't cause health problems, I reckon everyone who can inhale without coughing would smoke. Nicotine is great for concentration, alertness etc.

In which case, keep them to the areas where cigarettes are allowed and massively increase the age of being able to purchase and control their 'look'.And tax them lots.

Yeah, because god forbid that anyone should be able to enjoy something nice just for the sake of it :rolleyes: .

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Not in my experience.

I'm a smoker. I find nicotine far less addictive than your average person finds, say, television. I can easily go a day or two without a fix.

Yes, and cigarettes are great- if they didn't cause health problems, I reckon everyone who can inhale without coughing would smoke. Nicotine is great for concentration, alertness etc.

Yeah, because god forbid that anyone should be able to enjoy something nice just for the sake of it :rolleyes: .

And for relaxing. Nicotine should be marketed because of those benefits rather than merely as a way to wean yourself off the fags.

Agree about the TV, it's rare that I don't watch it in the evenings because that's where the comfy chairs are. I don't watch in if I'm in a hotel (by myself) as I will take the opportunity to demolish a couple of books and relish the silence.

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I was out with a guy smoking the very odd rollie the other week, he mentioned he should stop so I asked about the possibility for eCigs to help him. He said that he was a bit concerned about the fact he knows someone who has done just that and is now attached to his eCig instead. I don't know how much the guy smoked prior to switching to eCigs, has anyone seen a light tobacco smoker turn into a heavy eCig user? And, is that of any concern if it happens?

Agree with ccc about the apparent widespread use of eCigs, seems like I see more of them than normal cigs now.

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It seems as if the antis are terrified that if they allow vaping, 'real' smokers will somehow be able to blend in and somehow we'll go back to everybody smoking everywhere, like in 'Madmen'. It's pathetic, and obviously a desperate attempt to maintain control.

I have an epipe, ecigar and ecig, but tend not to vape them in public, mainly because at best it gets lots of comments like 'ooh is that real?' etc or at worst, some busybody flies into a tizzy about me 'smoking'. However, I do enjoy using them in places like hotel rooms and the houses of friends who don't like smoke in the house.

Presumably, the antis will want to ban that as well. I imagine cameras in every home would be the best solution. For everbody's good, of course. :rolleyes:

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I was out with a guy smoking the very odd rollie the other week, he mentioned he should stop so I asked about the possibility for eCigs to help him. He said that he was a bit concerned about the fact he knows someone who has done just that and is now attached to his eCig instead. I don't know how much the guy smoked prior to switching to eCigs, has anyone seen a light tobacco smoker turn into a heavy eCig user? And, is that of any concern if it happens?

Agree with ccc about the apparent widespread use of eCigs, seems like I see more of them than normal cigs now.

I think there's a risk of this; partly because it's so much easier and cheaper to vape than smoke and also because the apparent* lack of health risks may tend to make users more reckless and indulge more. When I bought an epipe I certainly started using it more than my real one, simply because it was easier to get stuck in rather than do all the filling, tamping, lighting, knocking out etc. I'm a bit more careful now, as I was indulging too much; though it doesn't seem that hard to back away from it - I think it's got fewer addictive chemicals in it than real tobacco.

*apparent in that no long term studies have been undertaken. However, it is known that long term exposure to nicotine can be harmful to the circulation.

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Quite. It is definitely not 'harmless'.

My mother, to her chagrin, suffered from tinnitus and she was an avid classical music lover.

The doctor told her to give up smoking as that was the cause - the tiny blood vessels serving the nerve endings in the ear had died back due to her heavy smoking and nicotine intake. The result was a constant noise in her ears which never went away.

That would be Wagner!

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That doesn't make any sense whatsoever - e-cigs don't contain tobacco !

It's part of New Yorks smoke free ban. Which also makes no sense as E-cigs don't produce smoke! Let's ban bicycles to stop all those car exhaust fumes.

They could just paint them all pink and then people would look silly and def not like they were actually smoking.

Those have been around for ages, pink, black, silver, blue etc, not cigarette sized.

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I think there's a risk of this; partly because it's so much easier and cheaper to vape than smoke and also because the apparent* lack of health risks may tend to make users more reckless and indulge more. When I bought an epipe I certainly started using it more than my real one, simply because it was easier to get stuck in rather than do all the filling, tamping, lighting, knocking out etc. I'm a bit more careful now, as I was indulging too much; though it doesn't seem that hard to back away from it - I think it's got fewer addictive chemicals in it than real tobacco.

*apparent in that no long term studies have been undertaken. However, it is known that long term exposure to nicotine can be harmful to the circulation.

Thanks for the reply, makes sense. Like anything in life opportunities for overindulgence present themselves. Perhpas, as you have found, it's a matter of adjusting to a new ritual and a certain amount of trial and error is required.

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I think I've been too liberal minded here. They should round up all the smokers and lock them up, destroy all references to smoking so the mere idea of smoking is eradicated from the language, from human thought. To save the kiddies. Until another Raleigh comes along of course. ;)

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