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dinker

Passive Smoking Is A Lie

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A new study shows that there is no basis for the ban on cigarette smoking in public spaces:

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/05/jnci.djt365.extract

Bit of an exaggeration, passive smoking exists, is not "a lie". There is "No Clear Link Between Passive Smoking and Lung Cancer". Doesn't mean it's been disproven though it doesn't look good for proponents of a link.

There are other health issues with breathing in environmental tobacco smoke, not addressed by this study.

There are other rationales for the ban.

Drug law is crazy, yes.

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It's all very much "you believe what you want to believe" and I've read studies that demonstrate that smoking tobacco only gives you cancer because of the multiple chemicals added; I've posted it on here before.

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It's all very much "you believe what you want to believe" and I've read studies that demonstrate that smoking tobacco only gives you cancer because of the multiple chemicals added; I've posted it on here before.

The idea that the possibility of getting cancer in the long term is the only negative effect of inhaling smoke on a regular basis is delusional.

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The idea that the possibility of getting cancer in the long term is the only negative effect of inhaling smoke on a regular basis is delusional.

Maybe you don't like the smell?

Many people dislike smoking but their rationale is no better than the nutritionists who still advocate a low fat diet: it's good/bad for you; because it is.

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'Passive Smoking' has, and always will be, a crock of shit.

No rational mind could possibly accept this pseudo-science as fact.

Your average smoker lives until his/her pension age. Some of them don't, but most do.

But despite the facts, apparently any unfortunate non-smoker who is anywhere near a smoker who blows out a bit of this (carcinogens already directly inhaled) smoke in their general direction wiill instantly die horribly...? B0LL0CKS...!

People who connect a pipe from their car exhaust to the inside of the vehicle seldom survive 10 or 15 minutes of breathing this shit.

Engine fumes hurt you good-style folks, but a few sad addicts puffing away on their fags is of no concern to any rational mind.

Case closed...!

XYY

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Engine fumes hurt you good-style folks, but a few sad addicts puffing away on their fags is of no concern to any rational mind.

Ah. I've been getting fed up with the effects of passive motoring for years, but people really really don't like it if you have a negative opinion of their freedom to drive...

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I used to pay good money back in the day to go into folk clubs (yeah, I know), only to have to leave with streaming eyes and a sore throat. I've got no arguments about people smoking in the fresh air or their own cars or homes, but please, not in public enclosed spaces.

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'Passive Smoking' has, and always will be, a crock of shit.

No rational mind could possibly accept this pseudo-science as fact.

Your average smoker lives until his/her pension age. Some of them don't, but most do.

But despite the facts, apparently any unfortunate non-smoker who is anywhere near a smoker who blows out a bit of this (carcinogens already directly inhaled) smoke in their general direction wiill instantly die horribly...? B0LL0CKS...!

People who connect a pipe from their car exhaust to the inside of the vehicle seldom survive 10 or 15 minutes of breathing this shit.

Engine fumes hurt you good-style folks, but a few sad addicts puffing away on their fags is of no concern to any rational mind.

Case closed...!

XYY

My suspicion is that this passive smoking thing was spun beyond the supporting science. That's not to claim that passive smoking is 100% risk free but the risk is difficult to quantify and separate out from all the other influences that may help trigger lung cancer in non smokers

The science aside, this boils down to question of individual liberties afaic. As an ex smoker and now as someone who puffs on a e-cig, I have always been conscious that I have no god-given right, or pressing need, to expose by-standers to my emissions, regardless of whether they're carcinogenic or not. It's not a lot different to farting when it comes down to it.

By the same token, the individual liberties of smokers should also be respected where possible. That would include not extending the definition of a 'public place' to include designated smoking areas in commercial premises that choose to provide such facilities.

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Ah. I've been getting fed up with the effects of passive motoring for years, but people really really don't like it if you have a negative opinion of their freedom to drive...

:lol: I completely agree. It truly is obnoxious and there is practically nowhere you can go in Britain without hearing motoring noise. But I guess most people think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Smoking seems to moved to the opposite position in most people's minds. The negatives outweigh the benefits. If I got a quid for every time I had to endure someone puffing away next to me - I still wouldn't take the offer up.

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A new study shows that there is no basis for the ban on cigarette smoking in public spaces:

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/05/jnci.djt365.extract

Pretty well pointless posting this.

Peoples minds are made up for them by Big Pharma who do very well out of nicotine replacement therapy and want the gravy train to keep rolling.

They are now claiming up to 120,000 smoking related deaths in England Wales every year.

That is about 20% of the total deaths.

BUT about 20% of people smoke.

My father was recorded as a smoking related death.

He smoked all his life.

Died at age 97 just completely worn out.

But, he smoked........

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My father was recorded as a smoking related death.

He smoked all his life.

Died at age 97 just completely worn out.

But, he smoked........

Serious?

That's just plain wrong. I assume he died of pneumonia, the "old man's friend", and they say that was smoking related. All the other pneumonia deaths are what, then?

I'm delighted smoking is banned in pubs etc because of the smell, but I never really believed it would give me cancer unless I was permanently in a pub.

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Serious?

That's just plain wrong. I assume he died of pneumonia, the "old man's friend", and they say that was smoking related. All the other pneumonia deaths are what, then?

I'm delighted smoking is banned in pubs etc because of the smell, but I never really believed it would give me cancer unless I was permanently in a pub.

Roy Castle is frequently cited as dying of lung cancer despite never having smoked, but as he spent much of his career playing the trumpet in smoky clubs he would have been breathing great lungfulls of cigarette smoke every night, the passive smoker's equivalent of a 60 a day man.

That's still a good argument for an indoor ban, but not for open spaces.

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My suspicion is that this passive smoking thing was spun beyond the supporting science. That's not to claim that passive smoking is 100% risk free but the risk is difficult to quantify and separate out from all the other influences that may help trigger lung cancer in non smokers

The science aside, this boils down to question of individual liberties afaic. As an ex smoker and now as someone who puffs on a e-cig, I have always been conscious that I have no god-given right, or pressing need, to expose by-standers to my emissions, regardless of whether they're carcinogenic or not. It's not a lot different to farting when it comes down to it.

By the same token, the individual liberties of smokers should also be respected where possible. That would include not extending the definition of a 'public place' to include designated smoking areas in commercial premises that choose to provide such facilities.

Yes, it's gone from:

- Being a smoker gives you a high risk of Lung cancer (but by no means certain), and increases the risk of others, also increases chances of emphysema, heart attack, stroke, etc.

- Living in the same house as an indoor smoker for years does seem to have health effects, but they are harder to measure.

- Working in a pub or club may have effects if done for long enough.

- Past that my understanding is that any effects are more inferred than measured.

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Yes, it's gone from:

- Being a smoker gives you a high risk of Lung cancer (but by no means certain), and increases the risk of others, also increases chances of emphysema, heart attack, stroke, etc.

- Living in the same house as an indoor smoker for years does seem to have health effects, but they are harder to measure.

- Working in a pub or club may have effects if done for long enough.

- Past that my understanding is that any effects are more inferred than measured.

My feeling is that the world is in a moral panic over tobacco, led by the USA where all things whacky begin.

The current situation closely mirrors the Temperance movement of the 19 and early 20th Centuries.

I used to own a Temperance songbook with the memorable first line of one song,

'I will drink not the drunkards drink.' which must have been a test of sobriety in itself!

The current furore will eventually burn itself out as people find that they prefer Liberty to health fads.

http://www.joejackson.com/pdf/5smokingpdf_jj_smoke_lies.pdf

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If I walk past someone these days smoking outside it feels like have a just stuck my head in a bonfire. I guess smokers have gotten so used to the smoking environment they don't realise how potent their smoke is. It is hard to believe that even passive smoking outside doesn't do some damage.

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If I walk past someone these days smoking outside it feels like have a just stuck my head in a bonfire. I guess smokers have gotten so used to the smoking environment they don't realise how potent their smoke is. It is hard to believe that even passive smoking outside doesn't do some damage.

Yes, but how bad is it relative to walking past an idling bus?

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Yes, but how bad is it relative to walking past an idling bus?

Indeed; talking of bad smells I walked past a pair of enormous woolly dogs with their owners the other day. I'm not saying the odour was dangerous or anything but the dogs stank to high heaven, one can only imagine the smell in the house. I'm betting the owners are totally unaware of it, you get conditioned to an environment so that you don't realise the effect on others.

I'm guessing that the dog owners or even a smoker would be a bit surprised if for just 5 seconds they were unconditioned and then breathed in what the average person experienced.

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Within two years more people will be on ecigs in the UK than Fags. I previously gave it ten years - but the pace of pick up has been quite simply staggering. The only thing stopping people trying it before was 'because i will look stupid'

That has gone now as they are so popular. Game over for old school Fags.

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Indeed; talking of bad smells I walked past a pair of enormous woolly dogs with their owners the other day. I'm not saying the odour was dangerous or anything but the dogs stank to high heaven, one can only imagine the smell in the house. I'm betting the owners are totally unaware of it, you get conditioned to an environment so that you don't realise the effect on others.

I'm guessing that the dog owners or even a smoker would be a bit surprised if for just 5 seconds they were unconditioned and then breathed in what the average person experienced.

I have twice in recent years made the mistake of accepting a lift in what I can only describe as "dog cars". The smell was atrocious, how you can get used to that I do not know.

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