4 Million Cars In U K Registered Sorn (Off Road)

[R K]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25398499

Motorists no longer need to find their motor insurance certificate when taxing their vehicle, under changes that come into force on Monday.

Instead the details will be cross-checked on an electronic system.

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) will use centrally-held databases to ensure that vehicles are insured.

The changes come ahead of the removal of the tax disc, which will be replaced by an electronic system in October.

"Getting rid of needless bits of paper, making changes to free up motorists' time, while saving money for the taxpayer, is all part of our commitment to get rid of unnecessary red tape," said Roads Minister Robert Goodwill.

Under the database system, drivers with uninsured vehicles are sent a reminder letter. Those who take no action receive a fixed penalty notice of £100, followed by wheel clamping, impounding or prosecution, with a maximum £1,000 fine.

However, if police officers discover a motorist driving without insurance, they can hand down a fixed penalty of £200 plus six penalty points. If the case goes to court, the maximum fine is £5,000, with the potential for disqualification or six to eight penalty points.

In addition, motorists will only need to tell DVLA once when they declare their vehicle off the road. Currently, motorists who make a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) have to renew it every year.

One million out of four million SORN declarations last year were repeats

So this is actually an announcement that from Monday you won't need to produce your insurance documents when taxing your car. It will be cross-referenced against a DVLA/Insurance database.

But the interesting bit for me was that the article claims there are 4million cars in the UK which have been SORN registered. i.e. statement of off road notification. 3 million of those were for the first time. 1 million repeats.

Stats from DVLA claim that there are 28.7 million cars 'licenced for use' in the UK. It's not clear if that includes the 4 million SORN cars.

http://racfoundation.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/number-of-vehicles-in-uk-hits-new-high/

“
At the end of 2012 there were 34.5 million vehicles licensed for use on the roads in Great Britain, of which 28.7 million (83 per cent) were cars.

So around 1 in 8 cars in the UK is registered as SORN.

Is that credible?! 1 in 8? Where are these 4 million cars that never go anywhere?

That's around 1 SORN car for every 5 houses in the UK. 1 for every 8 working people.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25398499

So this is actually an announcement that from Monday you won't need to produce your insurance documents when taxing your car. It will be cross-referenced against a DVLA/Insurance database.

But the interesting bit for me was that the article claims there are 4million cars in the UK which have been SORN registered. i.e. statement of off road notification. 3 million of those were for the first time. 1 million repeats.

Stats from DVLA claim that there are 28.7 million cars 'licenced for use' in the UK. It's not clear if that includes the 4 million SORN cars.

http://racfoundation.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/number-of-vehicles-in-uk-hits-new-high/

So around 1 in 8 cars in the UK is registered as SORN.

Is that credible?! 1 in 8? Where are these 4 million cars that never go anywhere?

That's around 1 SORN car for every 5 houses in the UK. 1 for every 8 working people.

I can imagine that 1 in 20 are sat in auction houses and dealers forecourts.

[R K]

I can imagine that 1 in 20 are sat in auction houses and dealers forecourts.

I think I'm correct in saying that new cars on forecourts or airfields etc won't have been registered, so presumably won't have been SORNed.

Do 2nd hand cars on forecourts need to be SORNed by dealers? Thought they just used trade plates as/when required?

[council dweller]

I haven`t looked in detail at these changes but does anyone think that these changes are not for the better?

Anything that makes life simpler must be good....they could go much further.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Perhaps at this time of year, people with classics that only come out during summer are put under a SORN over winter, might expect a strong seasonal variation.

1 in 8 seems like a lot though, maybe the fact the cost of running a car has far outstripped RPI since 1997 (ONS table TSGB1307) is also encouraging people to SORN a second car for a while to see if they can get by without it.

ONS say motoring costs have undershot RPI, but that is the case once the costs of buying cars is added- running costs, disproportionately hitting the poorest who don;t buy new cars, have rocketed.

[R K]

I haven`t looked in detail at these changes but does anyone think that these changes are not for the better?

Anything that makes life simpler must be good....they could go much further.

Personally I'd scrap it altogether but yes, on the face of it, it seems like a good idea. Although how much 'time' is actually saved by not having to look for one's insurance document once or twice a year is moot.

I think the real reason is that the police no longer look at the discs anyway, they scan the number plate using remote camera technology.

Paying by D/D monthly for similar cost (from next October) is probably a good idea too, to avoid a large one/two off tax, but again, why not go the whole hog and simply add it to fuel duty.

[fleabittenmoggie]

Doesn't actually state "cars" it's says SORN declarations

An awful lot if those will be two wheelers. For example I no longer have a car, but I do have 1 taxed motorbike and four Sorn bikes of various sizes.

[Sancho Panza]

I think I'm correct in saying that new cars on forecourts or airfields etc won't have been registered, so presumably won't have been SORNed.

Do 2nd hand cars on forecourts need to be SORNed by dealers? Thought they just used trade plates as/when required?

The DVLA is in reality a job creation scheme.They could easily take tax off fuel alone.Car tax is a very regressive tax in reality and punishes those who do low mileage.

Most used cars on forecourts aren't SORNed.I think the reality is that a lot of people aren't paying their car tax and just risking it.

I certainly know very few people with SORN cars in garages.Nowhere near 1 in 8.

[Sancho Panza]

Doesn't actually state "cars" it's says SORN declarations

An awful lot if those will be two wheelers. For example I no longer have a car, but I do have 1 taxed motorbike and four Sorn bikes of various sizes.

Could well be the explanation.

[R K]

Doesn't actually state "cars" it's says SORN declarations

An awful lot if those will be two wheelers. For example I no longer have a car, but I do have 1 taxed motorbike and four Sorn bikes of various sizes.

Good point.

Although it says 1 million are repeats. So 3 million are new SORNs.

Presumably your 4 SORN bikes would come into the 1 million category?

EDIT: The DVLA datasets are available here......... so I'll have a look

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/veh02-licensed-cars

Edited December 16, 2013 by R K

[Lennon]

Doesn't actually state "cars" it's says SORN declarations

An awful lot if those will be two wheelers. For example I no longer have a car, but I do have 1 taxed motorbike and four Sorn bikes of various sizes.

Interesting - as it's totally out of my area - Why? Do you use them for off-road / track riding only, or are they classics that aren't for riding, or just old bike that you are in the process of doing up?

[eejit]

there are a number of landrovers on various estates that don't leave the estate, so will be classed as SORN. tick them of your million.

Also, i have heard tales of the ferryman radioing ahead to an island when they spotted the DVLA man on board. All the islanders hide their untaxed, uninsured vehicles that are running on red diesel. i doubt that kind of thing goes on now.

[slacker]

Is't SORN for when you want to hold a number plate without a car too?

[Bear Necessities]

I had a rusty old fiesta SORN for a couple of years, when I got a job within 15 minutes walk of home and decided I just didn't need to run a car at all.

that was definitely money related as I couldn't justify the insurance and maintenance costs for what was an occasional trip to the supermarket and traveling to see my folks twice a year.

it was SORN mainly because it took two years to get around to scrapping it! (Kept thinking I might need it)

Edited December 16, 2013 by Bear Necessities

[Sour Mash]

Paying by D/D monthly for similar cost (from next October) is probably a good idea too, to avoid a large one/two off tax, but again, why not go the whole hog and simply add it to fuel duty.

Because then it would actually reflect usage of the roads (people who drive fewer miles on the roads would generally pay less 'road tax') rather than being a lucrative source of extra general taxation on anyone who owns a motor vehicle.

Simply slapping tax onto anything you can under any pretext - typically the pretext these days is environment or health - is a long-established way of screwing the public out ever more of the fruits of their labours without the pesky, highly visible increases in income tax which even the average thicko takes notice of.

[R K]

Good point.

Although it says 1 million are repeats. So 3 million are new SORNs.

Presumably your 4 SORN bikes would come into the 1 million category?

EDIT: The DVLA datasets are available here......... so I'll have a look

https://www.gov.uk/g...2-licensed-cars

This appears to be the summary dataset. All vehicles with a SORN by vehicle type, per quarter.

https://www.gov.uk/g...297/veh0110.xls

So it appears c. 1.2m cars are SORNed each quarter and c. 500k motorcycles on top of that. 230k light goods and 60k heavy goods.

I find those numbers quite astonishing. Cars in particular. There seems to be something not quite right either with the stats or the article. They appear to fail the common sense test.

Edited December 16, 2013 by R K

[Sancho Panza]

http://www.cartakeback.com/scrap-car-questions-and-answers.aspx#Facts%20and%20figures

2 million cars are scrapped per annum.Presumably SORNed while tax is stripped off.

[Spot]

This appears to be the summary dataset. All vehicles with a SORN by vehicle type, per quarter.

https://www.gov.uk/g...297/veh0110.xls

So it appears c. 1.2m cars are SORNed each quarter and c. 500k motorcycles on top of that. 230k light goods and 60k heavy goods.

I find those numbers quite astonishing. Cars in particular. There seems to be something not quite right either with the stats or the article. They appear to fail the common sense test.

Sounds reasonable to me. Only about 40 houses in my road and on the drives there are 2 E class mercs, a Porsche and a Morris Minor that I haven't seen move in years and until yesterday I had a SORN motorbike in my garage (sold it).

And who knows what else lurks behind the garage doors :-)

[fluffy666]

Sounds reasonable to me. Only about 40 houses in my road and on the drives there are 2 E class mercs, a Porsche and a Morris Minor that I haven't seen move in years and until yesterday I had a SORN motorbike in my garage (sold it).

And who knows what else lurks behind the garage doors :-)

Lots of middle-aged-man 'projects'. Usually started by middle aged men who wouldn't be able to change the oil on their normal car..

[fleabittenmoggie]

Interesting - as it's totally out of my area - Why? Do you use them for off-road / track riding only, or are they classics that aren't for riding, or just old bike that you are in the process of doing up?

1 was a ground up restoration that's not quite ready for an mot yet. 2 others are previous commuters that you could also call 'classics' and are probably appreciating in value better than anything else I own. 4th is a parts bike that is being stripped to fix up one of the others.

They'll be a lot of seasonality with bikes. sorn winter projects for example.

Depends how they work out the stats, but potentially a lot of the new sorns are actually repeat sorns just because the vehicle has changed hands. The new owner then has to re-sorn it once they have the v5 even though it was already sorned. They might put this down as a new sorn because it's in a new name, or they might not. Only the dvla knows (they probably don't!)

There will be a lot of vehicles that aren't even in the sorn system but also aren't taxed. Because you only have to sorn a vehicle if it has been taxed or sorned since jan 1998.

Edited December 16, 2013 by fleabittenmoggie

[R K]

http://www.cartakeba...20and%20figures

2 million cars are scrapped per annum.Presumably SORNed while tax is stripped off.

Good point too.

There's clearly quite an industry involved in doing little more than taxing and un-taxing vehicles.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Two car families mothballing one car because it is too expensive to run ?

[MrPin]

Because then it would actually reflect usage of the roads (people who drive fewer miles on the roads would generally pay less 'road tax') rather than being a lucrative source of extra general taxation on anyone who owns a motor vehicle.

Simply slapping tax onto anything you can under any pretext - typically the pretext these days is environment or health - is a long-established way of screwing the public out ever more of the fruits of their labours without the pesky, highly visible increases in income tax which even the average thicko takes notice of.

That would be good sense, which means it will not happen! :angry:

[Habeas Domus]

The SORN figures reflect the number in that quarter - they are not cumulative.

so it could be that 1.2 million cars were SORNed for exactly one quarter, and then a different 1.2 million cars the next quarter etc, or it could be the same 1.2 million were SORNed all year.

So the true yearly figure is more likely somewhere around the 2-3 million mark.

[goldbug9999]

So this is actually an announcement that from Monday you won't need to produce your insurance documents when taxing your car. It will be cross-referenced against a DVLA/Insurance database.

Why is this even news ? when you renew online they have been cross checking insurance and MOT databases for years.