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IPads, mortgages, Iceland, MumsNet and inevitable interest rate rises all in one item.

Guardian: Under the iPads and PS4s the ghoul of debt is lurking

People are raiding their savings, which have lately undergone their biggest drop in 40 years, enough to prompt a former Downing Street adviser to warn that such figures are "desperately worrying … If you just withdraw money and spend you are talking about a recipe for long-term economic decline."

Merry f***ing xmas :)

[edit for speeling]

Edited by Hold Fast

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IPads, mortgages, Iceland, MumsNet and inveitable interest rate rises all in one item.

Guardian: Under the iPads and PS4s the ghoul of debt is lurking

Merry f***ing xmas :)

It's the 'must-have' culture, innit? Must have it, whether you can afford it or not. Whoever invented that expression wants shooting, but I will admit it was very clever.

Plus of course all those 'perfect Christmas' articles, 'stylish' decorations, do you dare to trot out the same old familiar stuff and not be as stylish as next door? You poor, sad person... Still, if people are gullible enough to fall for it all....

Even many years ago a very 'stylish' neighbour asked me what colour Christmas tree I was having this year. Green, said un-stylish muggins, not realising what she meant. This woman used to go out and buy a whole new set of decorations every year, in purple or silver or whatever

colour she thought was currently fashionable.

Er, she later had to sell her house and move somewhere cheaper, broke...

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Good article, up to a point.

Would have been nice to see the bigger picture linked in. People with modest wages that spend six figure sums on houses in a heartbeat ain't going to fret over a few hundred on Christmas. This time of year is just when people have the biggest excuse to spend, and that spending is most visible.

I had a haircut recently; the lady hairdresser was fretting because she was having to buy her (much higher earning) boyfriend a games console for Xmas, and was then funding a surprise holiday to Vegas for them both for his 30th birthday. I did my best to suggest she should run for the hills...

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The BIG thing I hate about Christmas is the consumerism. it does show hose stupid people are though and the power of marketing.

Ironically, Christ wouldn't approve of commercialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

"In this Gospel episode Jesus and his disciples travel to Jerusalem for Passover, where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.[1][2] In the Gospel of John Jesus refers to the Temple as "my Father’s house" thus in some views making a claim to being the Son of God[3] although it is common in the Abrahamic religions to refer to God as God the Father."

Even jesus knew the bankers were the problem.

Merry CHRISTmas.

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The BIG thing I hate about Christmas is the consumerism. it does show hose stupid people are though and the power of marketing.

Ironically, Christ wouldn't approve of commercialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

"In this Gospel episode Jesus and his disciples travel to Jerusalem for Passover, where he expels the money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.[1][2] In the Gospel of John Jesus refers to the Temple as "my Father’s house" thus in some views making a claim to being the Son of God[3] although it is common in the Abrahamic religions to refer to God as God the Father."

Even jesus knew the bankers were the problem.

Merry CHRISTmas.

Yes, and they got their revenge by having him crucified.

Edited by 1929crash

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I didn't read too much of the linked article (the author appears to be the last person you'd want to invite to a Christmas party; a miserable sod like me), but raiding savings to pay for stuff is good, because why bother saving if you're not going to ever spend it.

So debt on credit cards for stuff = bad;

saving for stuff (and I don't mean the gas bill :) ) = good

I think the author of the article doesn't understand what savings are for?

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If you just withdraw money and spend you are talking about a recipe for long-term economic decline

Yeah, because keeping interest rates artificially low and asset prices artificially high is such a better way of running things... :rolleyes:

BTW I know it's a cliche to point this out, but Christmas has much more in common with the Roman festival of Saturnalia and other pagan midwinter festivals than anything Christ-like. So there's nothing new about over-consumption at this time of year. Indeed Britain didn't really celebrate Christmas from the Reformation until the mid nineteenth century or so, partly as a reaction to the excesses of feasting. Keep it simple, is what I say.

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BTW I know it's a cliche to point this out, but Christmas has much more in common with the Roman festival of Saturnalia and other pagan midwinter festivals than anything Christ-like. So there's nothing new about over-consumption at this time of year. Indeed Britain didn't really celebrate Christmas from the Reformation until the mid nineteenth century or so, partly as a reaction to the excesses of feasting. Keep it simple, is what I say.

I don't think anyone really cares where it came from, it's what it's become is the issue.

Goodwill to all shopkeepers on earth.

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Right, I`m going for it this Christmas, I`ve spent £7 on chicken wings and thighs and a cherry and coconut cake. The wife went to Japan on the 27th November and will get back on the 24th Dec...if she gets back! So about 14 quid for 3.5 weeks if on target.

Anyone spending less than this needs their head looking at.

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I don't think anyone really cares where it came from, it's what it's become is the issue.

Goodwill to all shopkeepers on earth.

I suppose that was my point. If nobody cares where Christmas comes from, why does it matter what it has become?

Christmas is based on a midwinter pagan festival of feasting and excess, so really we're just being 'traditional' when we spend loads of cash and have a big blowout...putting 'The Christ back into Christmas' is all a bit daft since it was always about overindulgence, not the perpetual memoriam of Jesus Christ, for which Easter is the main festival.

If people want to blow all their cash on tinsel, more fool them!

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Right, I`m going for it this Christmas, I`ve spent £7 on chicken wings and thighs and a cherry and coconut cake. The wife went to Japan on the 27th November and will get back on the 24th Dec...if she gets back! So about 14 quid for 3.5 weeks if on target.

Anyone spending less than this needs their head looking at.

I suspect anyone spending less than that in 3.5 weeks will probably need burying.

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I suspect anyone spending less than that in 3.5 weeks will probably need burying.

Oh come on...!! There`s food hanging around that will never be eaten. It`s what women do.

Most men will do the same over 3 or 4 weeks.

Strangely enough the cat is not too fussy either....

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I didn't read too much of the linked article (the author appears to be the last person you'd want to invite to a Christmas party; a miserable sod like me), but raiding savings to pay for stuff is good, because why bother saving if you're not going to ever spend it.

So debt on credit cards for stuff = bad;

saving for stuff (and I don't mean the gas bill :) ) = good

I think the author of the article doesn't understand what savings are for?

If alot of people are running down savings and the economy in recovery is it time to strengthen the personal balance sheet? This is what Osbourne is doing with the public finances and many private companies are hoarding cash And reducing net debt.

Edited by Ash4781

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Oh come on...!! There`s food hanging around that will never be eaten. It`s what women do.

Most men will do the same over 3 or 4 weeks.

Strangely enough the cat is not too fussy either....

Genetic differences? (a buy gene in women) men on the other hand may see it as a mathematical challenge and use their spatial awareness hunting skills. Hence council dweller can feed himself for fourteen quid over three and a half weeks and a woman can feed herself for £140 over the same timeframe and throw most of it in the dustbin.

One thing for sure supermarkets and shops generally love women, and may cede a small area for men's stuff like clothes if they have sufficient room.

Edited by crashmonitor

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I don't think anyone really cares where it came from, it's what it's become is the issue.

Goodwill to all shopkeepers on earth.

the economy is US...not martians..US...if we dont spend, there is no economy.

However, without some stored wealth,there can be no investment....People generally balance the two...governments tend not to.

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Oh come on...!! There`s food hanging around that will never be eaten. It`s what women do.

Do you mind? Absolutely bugger all food gets wasted in this house, and that includes Christmas. And I'm the one who cooks and uses stuff up.

Mr B is the one who goes mad in the shops and buys too much, or forgets what he's bought. Just as well he doesn't go food shopping all that often.

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I love the misery guts thread which pops up every year.

Christmas this year for me is going to be about spenidng some time with people, spending some money on nice food and drink that I dont sample at other times and playing with some new toys. it will be fun.

If your idea of a good time is locking yourself in a room and seeing how little you can spend on anything then all power to you.

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Genetic differences? (a buy gene in women) men on the other hand may see it as a mathematical challenge and use their spatial awareness hunting skills. Hence council dweller can feed himself for fourteen quid over three and a half weeks and a woman can feed herself for £140 over the same timeframe and throw most of it in the dustbin.

One thing for sure supermarkets and shops generally love women, and may cede a small area for men's stuff like clothes if they have sufficient room.

Well yes. The wife and I are extreme examples though I`ll admit.

Indeed I`m sticking to target, have spent a further £7 today in Aldi, I called in to waitrose (its like a Chrismas shoppe this year!) and drank a free latte before walking out.

Can I keep to £14 over 3.5 weeks?.......possibly...

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