Stop Complaining About Immigrants And Find A Job Of Your Own, Former M&s Boss Says

[workingpoor]

I don't believe any Italian would regard the fried bread sold by Dominos as 'proper' Pizza.

I can get that type of food plus bacon, sausage, egg and beans as an all day breakfast from my local greasy spoon Cafe for a fraction of what they charge.

Speaking as someone who receives a Xmas card from my local dominoes & Pizza Hut I can confirm that:

It's Pizza Hut that has that fried bread type base you speak of.

All dominoes base's are much drier and seem baked not fried.

[Self Employed Youth]

BTW who buys Domino Pizzas ? They seems staggeringly expensive for what is essentially a bit of salty bread soaked in fat

NHS, Police, Fire, Army staff get a 50% discount.

Coppers, nurses, porters, catering assistants, administrators, receptionists etc.

[stormymonday_2011]

NHS, Police, Fire, Army staff get a 50% discount.

Coppers, nurses, porters, catering assistants, administrators, receptionists etc.

No wonder all coppers are so fat nowdays.

[Pindar]

He's technically correct in what he says but that doesn't help with the fact that people like him are exploiting the difference in wage and living condition expectations in order to gain in the short term. Sadly he doesn't realise that the root problem is high property prices with the knock on effect on cost of living that this has in the wider economy. Is it moral that a centralised political paradigm exists in which eastern Europe can export its unemployment to richer countries with the effect of depressing wages in those countries? The suppression of wages and the simultaneous artificial support of the housing market are a recipe for disaster - but then that's the idea. Hunger Games here we come.

[SpectrumFX]

It's a shame we haven't got a proper free market for CEO type roles and have to put up with the small pool of poor calibre candidates with the right sort of school tie to get accepted by the old boys network that decides these things.

[Pindar]

Yes, an international recruitment consultancy that recruits for CEO positions would be a real innovation. They could offer generous relocation assistance including finding the nearest soup kitchen, hostels etc. M&S could really boost shareholder value by recruiting from a pool of bright eyed bushy tailed migrants, willing to go the extra mile for the brand and for minimum wage.

[darwin]

M&S is in a long, slow decline. Kind of like Woolworths.

I don't care what this guy thinks.

[SNACR]

It's a shame we haven't got a proper free market for CEO type roles and have to put up with the small pool of poor calibre candidates with the right sort of school tie to get accepted by the old boys network that decides these things.

It's fashionable opinion that any Tom, Dick or Harry is up to senior management roles but it's not really the case. Take a role like Senior Buyer, which doesn't need a great deal of academic ability but, even so you wouldn't get anyone worth having for a salary less than £50k. I would happily give a bit less to someone showing willing if it was realistic.

It will be the same for CEOs. I'm not saying jobs for the boys and troughing doesn't exist or it's not even a bit of a cartel but, I don't think any sort of wholesale reform could be as easily realised as might be imagined.

In a way 'jobs for the boys' is sort of a part of it. A senior person in sales gets the high salary because of the customers they have existing relationships with. The Senior Buyer has suppliers they have existing relationships with and it's what you end up paying for. None of tese jobs are lever pulling monkey see immigrant monkey do type roles.

[SNACR]

M&S is in a long, slow decline. Kind of like Woolworths.

I don't care what this guy thinks.

I don't think it will be that slow. Things get unexpectedly quick critical mass these days. In 2005 there was a bit of talk about the threat of digital to bricks and mortar music/DVD/video game retailers no-one was predicting, in barely five years. there wouldn't be any left at all.

I think it will only need an efficiency/technological step-change in home delivery logistics and shops will empty of footfall very rapidly.

[darwin]

I don't think it will be that slow. Things get unexpectedly quick critical mass these days. In 2005 there was a bit of talk about the threat of digital to bricks and mortar music/DVD/video game retailers no-one was predicting, in barely five years. there wouldn't be any left at all.

I think it will only need an efficiency/technological step-change in home delivery logistics and shops will empty of footfall very rapidly.

M&S owns the freehold on most of its properties. The axe would have fallen a long time ago, if it wasn't for that.

[SNACR]

M&S owns the freehold on most of its properties. The axe would have fallen a long time ago, if it wasn't for that.

I think it's even pushing it to say the majority are freeholds. To be where the footfall is they've, like everyone else, been forced to take leaseholds in prominent developments. Pretty sure their shop at Fosse Park in Leicester is the most expensive shop rent, for its type, in Europe.

[wonderpup]

On the other side it is inevitable that "relatively soon" the wages of the Western EU will be matched by wages outside of the Western EU, because of the unstoppable globalisation. You can not pay British labour much more than others in the global economy if they do not provide something special. What they do not provide anymore.

So getting the cheap immigration in will get you ready for the next phase of the global competition.

If that's true then the elites have painted themselves into a corner- they can have cheap labor or they can have sky high property values- what they can't have is both- and given how much of their 'wealth' is tied up in real estate it's going to be amusing watching them try to square this circle.

[SpectrumFX]

It's fashionable opinion that any Tom, Dick or Harry is up to senior management roles but it's not really the case. Take a role like Senior Buyer, which doesn't need a great deal of academic ability but, even so you wouldn't get anyone worth having for a salary less than £50k. I would happily give a bit less to someone showing willing if it was realistic.

It will be the same for CEOs. I'm not saying jobs for the boys and troughing doesn't exist or it's not even a bit of a cartel but, I don't think any sort of wholesale reform could be as easily realised as might be imagined.

In a way 'jobs for the boys' is sort of a part of it. A senior person in sales gets the high salary because of the customers they have existing relationships with. The Senior Buyer has suppliers they have existing relationships with and it's what you end up paying for. None of tese jobs are lever pulling monkey see immigrant monkey do type roles.

I'm not saying that anybody can do any job.

However it is you choose to measure capability the top 5% in India are more numerous than the entire population of the UK.

As a society we've chosen to promote immigration of unskilled labour,and yet we do not see the decimation of "native" senior management that would be expected if we were to genuinely appoint to those positions based on ability.

To be honest I personally know several people who could have run the co-op better than Flowers, and we've all heard the joke that Terry Wogan has more banking qualifications than Fred the Shred.

It seems to me we'd be better off allocating these jobs by random lottery than we have been with the people we've had in recent memory.

[workingatthepyramid]

snacr in still spouting trickle down shit scandal.

How can anyone with half a brain still believe that "you have got to pay the top dough to get the top people bs"... the most highly paid people in the world ever ******ed us all in the **** and are now the worlds biggest benefit claimants.

Masters of the universe my ****... they and their political running dogs should all be on trial for fraud, treason and crimes against humanity.

[Sancho Panza]

M&S owns the freehold on most of its properties. The axe would have fallen a long time ago, if it wasn't for that.

It was selling freeholds are far back as 2001

Edited December 9, 2013 by Sancho Panza

[alexw]

It's fashionable opinion that any Tom, Dick or Harry is up to senior management roles but it's not really the case. Take a role like Senior Buyer, which doesn't need a great deal of academic ability but, even so you wouldn't get anyone worth having for a salary less than £50k. I would happily give a bit less to someone showing willing if it was realistic.

It will be the same for CEOs. I'm not saying jobs for the boys and troughing doesn't exist or it's not even a bit of a cartel but, I don't think any sort of wholesale reform could be as easily realised as might be imagined.

In a way 'jobs for the boys' is sort of a part of it. A senior person in sales gets the high salary because of the customers they have existing relationships with. The Senior Buyer has suppliers they have existing relationships with and it's what you end up paying for. None of tese jobs are lever pulling monkey see immigrant monkey do type roles.

Oh please..... we all know it's total bull**** that CEO pay is set by supply and demand for "talent". For this to occur those who pay the CEO salaries must have the final say in whether to pay or to tell that employee to walk, so that a market setting equilibrium can be established. But the fact is they don't. When's the last time a pension fund investor had a say in the pay of their senior employee's? Never. Thus we have CEO's effectively setting their own pay and that's why it is so stupidly high.

For proof do this simple thought experiment. What would happen to CEO salaries corporate welfare, if pension funds had to canvass their investors on which way to vote on binding resolutions governing CEO pay? Would they continue to rise at 5-15% a year or would they fall to a couple hundred thousand per year? THAT would be the market setting CEO pay not what we have now.

[stormymonday_2011]

If that's true then the elites have painted themselves into a corner- they can have cheap labor or they can have sky high property values- what they can't have is both- and given how much of their 'wealth' is tied up in real estate it's going to be amusing watching them try to square this circle.

+1

That is precisely my reading of the situation.

At the end of the day a class of rentiers can only extract their money from the surplus generated by production which is usually distributed in wages and dividends

If the economy shrinks, wages go down the crapper and all the dividends go overseas I would like to know from where they expect their money to come

Edited December 10, 2013 by stormymonday_2011

[Goat]

It's a shame we haven't got a proper free market for CEO type roles and have to put up with the small pool of poor calibre candidates with the right sort of school tie to get accepted by the old boys network that decides these things.

Great rant, shame it has no connection to reality.

UK companies search for leaders with global reach

When it emerged last September that Sir John Bond intended to stand down as chairman of Vodafone, few could have guessed the name of his replacement.....no one, until a week before the decision was originally announced, came up with the name of Gerard Kleisterlee, a Dutchman born in Germany....

... Research undertaken by The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Kleisterlee, who takes over from Sir John in July, will not be alone.

Based on the current FTSE 100, some 32 of its chairmen are from overseas, while 42 of its chief executives were not born in the UK.

Overseas-born chairmen sit atop some of the UK's best known companies, such as Daniel Bern, the French-born chairman of B&Q owner Kingfisher, or Philip Lader, the American chairman of WPP. Among the foreign-born chief executives, Dame Marjorie Scardino, another American, runs Pearson, while Angela Ahrendts, a third American, runs Burberry.

The research shows that UK-born chairmen and chief executives are still in the majority, but that could soon change.

The study also highlights how the predominance of international executives increases with a company's size.

Take Kleisterlee's appointment into account, for example, and the number of British chairmen of the UK's 20 largest companies by market capitalisation falls to nine, less than 50pc....

Looks like that's as free market as it could be.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Goat

[stormymonday_2011]

Cheap foreign workers do not appear to be an unqualified success in Singapore at the moment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25306425

[stormymonday_2011]

Cheap foreign workers do not appear to be an unqualified success in Singapore at the moment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25306425

Perhaps they need more Pizza

[SpectrumFX]

Great rant, shame it has no connection to reality.

UK companies search for leaders with global reach

When it emerged last September that Sir John Bond intended to stand down as chairman of Vodafone, few could have guessed the name of his replacement.....no one, until a week before the decision was originally announced, came up with the name of Gerard Kleisterlee, a Dutchman born in Germany....

... Research undertaken by The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Kleisterlee, who takes over from Sir John in July, will not be alone.

Based on the current FTSE 100, some 32 of its chairmen are from overseas, while 42 of its chief executives were not born in the UK.

Overseas-born chairmen sit atop some of the UK's best known companies, such as Daniel Bern, the French-born chairman of B&Q owner Kingfisher, or Philip Lader, the American chairman of WPP. Among the foreign-born chief executives, Dame Marjorie Scardino, another American, runs Pearson, while Angela Ahrendts, a third American, runs Burberry.

The research shows that UK-born chairmen and chief executives are still in the majority, but that could soon change.

The study also highlights how the predominance of international executives increases with a company's size.

Take Kleisterlee's appointment into account, for example, and the number of British chairmen of the UK's 20 largest companies by market capitalisation falls to nine, less than 50pc....

Looks like that's as free market as it could be.

Really?

9/20 British (45%)

Uk population ~60m

World population ~7bn

So we've picked 45% of them from the < 1% of the world population that happens to live in the UK.

Keeping in mind what I said earlier about how the most talented 5% (whatever way you want to define talented) of the population of India outnumber the whole population of the UK where are the talented but cheap individuals from emerging markets driving down wages?

What barriers to entry prevent them from undercutting Rose and his ilk?

[Goat]

Really?

9/20 British (45%)

Uk population ~60m

World population ~7bn

So we've picked 45% of them from the < 1% of the world population that happens to live in the UK.

Keeping in mind what I said earlier about how the most talented 5% (whatever way you want to define talented) of the population of India outnumber the whole population of the UK where are the talented but cheap individuals from emerging markets driving down wages?

What barriers to entry prevent them from undercutting Rose and his ilk?

I'm sorry but the fact that approximately 50% of CEOs are non-British blows your "small pool of old boys network" claim out of the water.

Is it surprising that a large number of UK companies have UK born CEOs? Not really.

You can rule out the Chinese and Indians because quite frankly there are going to be very few of them experienced in running a multinational business, likewise the same applies to Russia, Africa and South America. In reality you're picking from candidates in the US & Western Europe, a large proportion of which might not want to move to a different country, in that context 50% foreign born is very high.

One final point, can you point me to any other country that has a higher proportion of CEOs born overseas.

[(Blizzard)]

Great rant, shame it has no connection to reality.

UK companies search for leaders with global reach

When it emerged last September that Sir John Bond intended to stand down as chairman of Vodafone, few could have guessed the name of his replacement.....no one, until a week before the decision was originally announced, came up with the name of Gerard Kleisterlee, a Dutchman born in Germany....

... Research undertaken by The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Kleisterlee, who takes over from Sir John in July, will not be alone.

Based on the current FTSE 100, some 32 of its chairmen are from overseas, while 42 of its chief executives were not born in the UK.

Overseas-born chairmen sit atop some of the UK's best known companies, such as Daniel Bern, the French-born chairman of B&Q owner Kingfisher, or Philip Lader, the American chairman of WPP. Among the foreign-born chief executives, Dame Marjorie Scardino, another American, runs Pearson, while Angela Ahrendts, a third American, runs Burberry.

The research shows that UK-born chairmen and chief executives are still in the majority, but that could soon change.

The study also highlights how the predominance of international executives increases with a company's size.

Take Kleisterlee's appointment into account, for example, and the number of British chairmen of the UK's 20 largest companies by market capitalisation falls to nine, less than 50pc....

Looks like that's as free market as it could be.

That just shows an established British Elite losing out to an emerging world elite.

When a local CEO is replaced by a foreign CEO because the foreign CEO is cheaper, then we will know that those roles are susceptible to market forces.

In fact the rise of globalisation, and the associated increase in the pool of candidates for executive roles, has seen an increase in executive pay.

Why? Because corporate officers aren't trading their skills in a global marketplace, they are politicians vying for power.

Edited December 10, 2013 by (Blizzard)

[Goat]

That just shows that an established British Elite losing out to an emerging world elite.

What it shows is that the "old boys network" claim is a nonsense. There are plenty of British CEOs in the US so I'm not sure you claim is any more sensible.

When a CEO is replaced by a foreign CEO because the foreign CEO is cheaper, then I will accept that market forces are being applied equally.

TBH a CEOs pay is trivial to companies of this size, they'll pay whatever they need to get "the right person" for the job.

In fact the rise of globalisation, and the associated increase in the pool of candidates for executive roles, has seen an increase in executive pay.

Why? Because corporate officers aren't trading their skills in a global marketplace, they are politicians vying for power.

Bear in mind that globalisation also leads to a greater demand for executives.

[(Blizzard)]

What it shows is that the "old boys network" claim is a nonsense. There are plenty of British CEOs in the US so I'm not sure you claim is any more sensible.

TBH a CEOs pay is trivial to companies of this size, they'll pay whatever they need to get "the right person" for the job.

Bear in mind that globalisation also leads to a greater demand for executives.

I'm not claiming there is an 'old boys network', it is far more complicated and subtle than that. There has been a gradual shift in culture, which fosters the belief in an ubermensch and the talent myth. The more people believe in market-forces, the easier it is to justify any kind of personal excess, and so it suits the people in power to encourage those beliefs.

In reality, market forces exist alongside politics, class interest, culture, and all other kinds of social force. My claim is that senior corporate officers have more in common with senior politicians than they do with either entrepreneurs or skilled workers.

Edited December 10, 2013 by (Blizzard)