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House Price Crash Forum

Flexible Labour And The Welfare State


wonderpup

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HOLA441
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HOLA442

Capitalism is primarily about property rights, not that everything is owned. Just as important is the free trade of goods and services within a market. I don't even know from where you get trade being the only legitimate form of human interaction.

The only way you can pay taxes is with money. Money is created by banks and they charge interest upon it. By controlling the money supply this given them an unfair advantage in all markets. They decide which markets thrive and which do not. You can't create money. I can't create money. ASDA, HMV, Primark can't create money. But HSBC can and they can decided which small bushinesses and individuals are allowed to have money and which cannot.

+1

that's why there is a need for a more efficient mode of transaction.

money itself is not the problem, just the "cartel" of the means of exchange.

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HOLA443

An irreconcilable contradiction in terms

And therein lies the problem.

If it weren't so tragic you would have to laugh at people blaming foreigners for being willing to work hard and live frugally and upsetting the welfare state. Either hard work and frugal living is wrong or the welfare state is wrong.

If you believe that the free market is correct and thus the wefare state is wrong, then you must believe that competing in a crowded menial job market is not productive and the solution is not to complain and invoke protectionism, but to raise the skills of your workforce through education and spawn high value added, innovative, productive industries that pay everyone more. See Germany , for example.

Don't look down, look up.

That's the sort of gibberish that's led to the idea that the west will become "knowledge" economies, and we will all be in high paying technical jobs while the chinese and other asians will do all the low paid stuff, because they are somehow incapable of doing high value added.

It does not matter how high you raise skill levels there will always be low-skill work that needs doing and someone will always be at the bottom of the pile. You have tried to brush that under the carpet with your argument but it's so obvious it's impossible to ignore. To quote the phrase "we can't all be brain surgeon's" seems apt.

As for germany which you think is high skill high pay, it has the third largest low paid sector in all of europe behind only hungary and the uk. Three million workers earn less than 6 euro's an hour. Large numbers of germans are dependent on state hand-outs to make ends meet. Without those handouts they literally could not afford to keep body and soul whole.

Thus the problem needs to be looked at in a rational manner and decisions made, rather than relying on the wishful thinking that we can all work in high pay high skill work.

Edited by alexw
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HOLA444

No. To have capitalism the money supply must be stable. We do not have this.

no it doesn't.

money is just like any other harvested crop.....there is a time to sow, a time to prune, a time to harvest and a time to eat.

that formula is inherently cyclical.

..so not stable(not in linear terms anyway...in electrical terms money supply is an AC system), and certainly not "communist" king canute style ( DC)economics.

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HOLA445

Capitalism is primarily about property rights, not that everything is owned. Just as important is the free trade of goods and services within a market. I don't even know from where you get trade being the only legitimate form of human interaction.

The only way you can pay taxes is with money. Money is created by banks and they charge interest upon it. By controlling the money supply this given them an unfair advantage in all markets. They decide which markets thrive and which do not. You can't create money. I can't create money. ASDA, HMV, Primark can't create money. But HSBC can and they can decided which small bushinesses and individuals are allowed to have money and which cannot.

1. Capitalism is about #enforcing# 'property' rights, whether natural or not, but basically - yes - 'property' rights, then 'free' trade.

2. 'The only form of legitimate interaction'

To a committed capitalist the relationship between an employer and employee is just a trade, artists produce goods to be sold, education is about acquiring skills to be traded in the marketplace and so on. Democracy, unions, religious belief, culture, tradition, even family relationships, all of these are seen as inferior to trade. Unimportant at best, and at worst, a threat to be removed.

So yeah, I'm using the language of an extremist, but the basic idea is as I said.

3. Ok I see your point, but I think the ability to print money is just another abstract piece of property to be owned.

It's no different to land. All land is now owned, you get none, now lets trade!

Anyway this is all very abstract. No economy implements 'theoretical capitalism'. it would collapse. What we have is rule by capitalists, I would call that capitalism.

Edited by (Blizzard)
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HOLA446
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HOLA447
That might be true but it's deeper than that.

In the past there were real fears of a revolution in the capitalist world, at various different times.

That's what really led to the welfare state, democracy, even mass home ownership.

That's true- on a basic level it's bread and circus's. The fact that even the most brutal of the Roman Emperors felt the need to appease the plebs is the real genesis of the modern welfare state.

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