Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Mikhail Liebenstein

Flu Vaccines For 2 And 3 Year Olds

Recommended Posts

Just received a call from a Medical Practice Nurse saying they had Flu Shots back in for 2 and 3 year olds. Vaccinating our son was something my wife had previously been asked to do by the practice and had said yes, but at the time they had run out of shots.

Any way on being offered a new rather inconvenient time slot, I said to to nurse, well I know the vaccine isn't that effective anyway and generally flu is mild for healthy children so I guess it didn't matter if we couldn't make the slot straight away and had to re-arrange. She said, yes fine and then added "the shot isn't really for the kids benefit anyway, it to protect the elderly and immune compromised."

So I am left asking myself, why should I subject my son to a flu shot (which I believe is a nasal spray rather than an injection), when the benefit is for someone else?

Yes, i get the principle of vaccines and group immunity, but they aren't then automatically offering the jab to 1 year olds like our youngest child or to children aged 4 and up, or indeed adults other than health workers, pregnant women or the immune compromised.

What are peoples views on this? My take is that I don't see the point of subjecting a child to minor medical procedure which is somewhat ineffective and definitely temporary in individual benefits in order to protect the 60+ cohort in the community who can have the jab anyway. This does feel like some baby boomer inspired policy - not only are the young expected to pay for their health care, but they are also expect to undergo medical treatment less they infect a boomer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tens of thousands of elderly die each year when others who have the flu selfishly go out and about spreading it.

Many of us will die in this way when we get older. Be a good human being - get the damn shot for your kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tens of thousands of elderly die each year when others who have the flu selfishly go out and about spreading it.

Many of us will die in this way when we get older. Be a good human being - get the damn shot for your kids.

I must disagree most strongly, TMT.

About two years back the University of Minnesota conducted a study, which was published in The Lancet. The study looked at eighty-odd years of studies going back to the 1930s and concluded that vaccination against the flu was basically a waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tens of thousands of elderly die each year when others who have the flu selfishly go out and about spreading it.

Many of us will die in this way when we get older. Be a good human being - get the damn shot for your kids.

The flu vaccine only protects against one or two strains predicted to be the most common in a year. There are plenty of strains that can still be caught even by someone who is vaccinated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tens of thousands of elderly die each year when others who have the flu selfishly go out and about spreading it.

Many of us will die in this way when we get older. Be a good human being - get the damn shot for your kids.

Those houses are not going to vacate themselves, are they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BBC: A&E cash linked to staff flu jab

Hospitals in England will have to get most of their staff vaccinated against flu if they want access to the A&E bailout fund in the future.

The government has set aside £500m for the next two years to help deal with the growing pressures.

The 53 trusts most at risk this year have been told they will share £235m.

But to qualify for next year's slice trusts will have to get 75% of staff vaccinated as ministers attempt to tackle a long-running problem.

Currently less than half of health staff get the flu jab, putting themselves and patients at risk.

Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies said she could not understand why they did not want to protect themselves and accused them of being "selfish" for not protecting their patients.

She also said two and three-year-olds would be getting the flu jab - via a nasal spray - this year as the roll out of the under fives vaccination programme begins... (cont)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hospitals in England will have to get most of their staff vaccinated against flu if they want access to the A&E bailout fund in the future.

The government has set aside £500m for the next two years to help deal with the growing pressures.

The 53 trusts most at risk this year have been told they will share £235m.

But to qualify for next year's slice trusts will have to get 75% of staff vaccinated as ministers attempt to tackle a long-running problem.

Currently less than half of health staff get the flu jab, putting themselves and patients at risk.

Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies said she could not understand why they did not want to protect themselves and accused them of being "selfish" for not boosting the profits of big pharma.

She also said two and three-year-olds would be getting the flu jab - via a nasal spray - this year as the roll out of the under fives vaccination programme begins... (cont)

Corrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corrected.

Maybe I'm being old fashioned but when presented with a statement such as...

Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies said she could not understand why they did not want to protect themselves

The first question that comes to mind is 'Have you asked them?'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm being old fashioned but when presented with a statement such as...

Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies said she could not understand why they did not want to protect themselves

The first question that comes to mind is 'Have you asked them?'

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's kind of opposite to the argument for not vaccinating against chicken pox. They don't do this as a matter of course (unlike many other countries) because there is a belief that youngsters getting chicken pox helps boost immunity against shingles in older people. My two boys have just had the pox, and to be honest was not that bad, but. It can be pretty nasty for a significant minority depending on the strain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the OP - if there is a desire to widen the uptake of the jab to protect the elderly and in some professions it's a requirement to have it then why isn't it available to everybody for free? It's not as though some Albanian gypsy will have half a dozen jabs to exploit the system.

I've got it when I've worked somewhere where they give you a voucher or bring somebody in to do it but I wouldn't pay the £12.99 Boots charge for it when 9 years out of 10 I've not had the jab I haven't caught it anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the OP - if there is a desire to widen the uptake of the jab to protect the elderly and in some professions it's a requirement to have it then why isn't it available to everybody for free? It's not as though some Albanian gypsy will have half a dozen jabs to exploit the system.

I've got it when I've worked somewhere where they give you a voucher or bring somebody in to do it but I wouldn't pay the £12.99 Boots charge for it when 9 years out of 10 I've not had the jab I haven't caught it anyway.

Because 2 and 3 year olds are walking germ factories?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

flu is nasty - remember the 1963 outbreak well (it was 1963 wasn't it?)

but - surely if the elderly (over 65) have already been jabbed it does not make sense to vaccinate small children on the offchance they spread flu to elders - too much over-medication that preys on the fears of parents. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's kind of opposite to the argument for not vaccinating against chicken pox. They don't do this as a matter of course (unlike many other countries) because there is a belief that youngsters getting chicken pox helps boost immunity against shingles in older people. My two boys have just had the pox, and to be honest was not that bad, but. It can be pretty nasty for a significant minority depending on the strain.

I've had chickenpox twice.

And you can get a shingles jab now if you're over about 100? A friend's dad has had shingles several times but can't have the jab cos he's only 75.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tens of thousands of elderly die each year when others who have the flu selfishly go out and about spreading it.

Many of us will die in this way when we get older. Be a good human being - get the damn shot for your kids.

Whoa, hold on there for a second! I'm all for pulling together and doing my bit, but I'd rather keep my (hypothetical) kids away from elderly people than subject them to a drug of dubious value that may have unpleasant side effects for them. The whole vaccine debate is still open to question as far as I'm concerned, and having looked into it in some detail I have realised that someone is always taking a risk.

And as such I see this as an individual risk calculation, a very personal matter, and that nobody should be coerced or made to feel guilty for their (informed) decision. Children are too young to make this informed decision, so they rely on their parents to do this for them, in their best interests. Older people are fully capable of taking the flu shot themselves, if they feel this a necessary precaution.

I strongly disagree with guilt tactics in regards to other children or older people being put 'at risk' from other people's informed decisions. Selfish really doesn't come into it and is a misrepresentation of a fairly complex decision, impo.

Live and let live...

(or snuff it from flu)

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help but be cynical about many things the medical 'profession' tell us all to do.

Same with the 'health' or food industries. Too much money and vested interests behind it.

Having lots of trouble trying to persuade my dad to look into dietary changes to see if they have an impact on his late onset asthma. I don't think the fact he is now married to a doctor is helping much. I have researched it a fair bit and talked to rest of family about it. They all see no reason at all for him not to at least try it. However he seems totally infatuated by this 'top doctor' that is currently 'treating' him for his asthma.

Apparently 3 years of this - with little improvement of his symptoms - and pretty serious side effects of ongoing steroids is the better way to go :o

He asked the doctor about the diet aspect. Apparently this has no relation to his asthma. :rolleyes:

He knew this instantly apparently. How amazing. Considering asthma is an inflammatory condition with excess mucous production - and my dads diet is full of things that are widely accepted to potentially have an impact on this ? I find the doctors instant dismissal of this as quite frightening really.

My dad also has a history including ME, lots of dodgy stomachs, hayfever, nasal polops and eczema.

A quick look online to various sites (many of them medical sites) makes it clear there may at least be a potential link to his various ailments and his diet.

Anyway - a bit of topic but just another example of the medical fraternity being massively blinkered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa, hold on there for a second! I'm all for pulling together and doing my bit, but I'd rather keep my (hypothetical) kids away from elderly people than subject them to a drug of dubious value that may have unpleasant side effects for them.

Experts (sic.) say otherwise...

Independent: Getting vaccinated is a civic duty, warn health experts

Britons should be given vaccination record cards and be advised it is their “civic duty” to get immunised, experts recommend on Tuesday, warning that increasing migration, an ageing population and the growth of antibiotic resistance is increasing the threat posed by infectious diseases.

A report launched on Tuesday will call for increased adult vaccination against infectious diseases, including seasonal influenza, pneumococcal diseases, whooping cough, shingles, diphtheria and tetanus.

The report calls for vaccination to be promoted as an “easy” default choice, especially for older generations. It calls on the Government to “play on the strong sense of civic duty which might encourage vaccination to protect others, particularly if advised to do so by their physicians”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eight

Experts (sic.) say otherwise...

Independent: Getting vaccinated is a civic duty, warn health experts

Funny thing, flu. Apart from the celebrated mass outbreaks, nobody got it until about ten years ago. Definitely a post millenial phenomena. When I was growing up if you said you had flu you were treated with incredulity, told you had a cold and to get over it. Nobody actually died from it. Or of they did it was because they were old and knackered anyway.

Since when did individual deaths become society's failing? It comes to us all you know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Experts (sic.) say otherwise...

That's nice of them, to really make it a no brainer by downplaying the potential risks so as to make it an 'easy' default choice...

Seems to tally with this review of reports from the DoH and Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) obtained by a freedom of information request which implies that they've been selectively sitting on data concerning said risks for 3 decades in order to protect the national vaccine programme...

It was their civic duty, after all...

http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf

(I wouldn't want to turn this into a pro/antivax debate, Gawd help us, but I do happen to know for a fact that the reporting of adverse events in primary care is shockingly low, and that of the reports there are, vaccine reactions seem to feature relatively highly... Still, I'm sure it's all for the greater good)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny thing, flu. Apart from the celebrated mass outbreaks, nobody got it until about ten years ago. Definitely a post millenial phenomena. When I was growing up if you said you had flu you were treated with incredulity, told you had a cold and to get over it. Nobody actually died from it. Or of they did it was because they were old and knackered anyway.

Since when did individual deaths become society's failing? It comes to us all you know.

Maybe it's got worse? I've had it three times (including twice in a year) and it is totally debilitating and entirely unmistakeable.

I didn't have it before about ten years ago but surely flu is flu?

Everything else is a heavy cold or a bit flu-ey. Proper flu means it is a lengthy ordeal to cross the room and a struggle to lift your head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   215 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.