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VacantPossession

Take A Look At Holland

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Holland, the most overpopulated place in Europe, and a greater population compared to the UK per hectare; reliant on service economy, about the same balance between manufacturing and non-manufacturing. Similar pressures on Health, Education, Space, Urban renewal, immigration et al. Similar goals and similar problems. Give or take the odd pedantic assessment.

So why then, is property to buy in Holland between TWO THIRDS and a HALF the price of the UK? And how is it possible to RENT an enormous apartment, overlooking a river or canal, with sumptuous rooms all with gargantuan proportions, beautiful fixtures and fittings, for UNDER half the cost of commensurate places in the UK?

I don't know the answer, but allow me to speculate: The UK has become a self-perpetuating, appallingly myopic bastion of hype and myth. The fact is that most conventional British properties are inadequate, tiny, mean, pathetic. We have become used to feeling grateful to live in an extended cupboard in W2, or a squalid semi in Acton and are made to feel humble and privileged to have the opportunity to take just four footsteps wall to wall and call it "HOME".

We are truly pathetic. Why don't we wake up and examine what is available in the rest of Europe? UK housing must be the laughing stock of our friends in the rest of Northern Europe.

I have spent the last couple of days surfing various agents in Holland. Almost without exception, rental housing, and its saleable equivalent, is not just vastly superior to the ludicrously sad properties we like to call "desirable". The difference is frankly EMBARRASSING.

Recently, a pilot friend of mine arrived in the UK with the prospect of us temporarily sharing a rented place until he and I sort out our permanent arragements. We looked at many many apratments in Surrey, Sussex, Kent and London Suburbs. Without exception everything we saw was, for the price, seedy, small, mean, lacking in basic style, badly built, over-priced and unattractive.

By stark contrast I went to Holland and looked at a few similarly-priced apartments. Almost all of them were presentable, spacious, attractive, designed with taste, inviting, well-equipped and highly desirable, BUT at a price which was CONSISTENTLY HALF that of UK properties in similar areas.

We really need to wake up here. UK property has become a ridiculous masquerade. I find it incredible that we all accept the conventional wisdom that we are willing to get excited about buying or renting what is essentially sub-standard, prosaic, crappy property which is riding on the very tired assumption that "this is how life is".

I can only urge you to have a look at comparitively-priced housing in Holland, Germany, Belgium and other Northern European towns and cities to gain an insight in the cynical con that is British housing.

I suggest you do a google search for Dutch property, and for a start you could try:

www.directwonen.nl

which has thousands of representative properties in Holland.

For a small taster here are a few pics of a very spacious apartment which is offered at EU 1600. Between two people that is EU 800 which is...what....500 quid a month. Look what you get compared to the average pathetic UK place.

_cid_image001.jpg_cid_image004.jpg_cid_image007.jpg

VacantPossession

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Edited by VacantPossession

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Holland, the most overpopulated place in Europe, and a greater population compared to the UK per hectare; reliant on service economy, about the same balance between manufacturing and non-manufacturing. Similar pressures on Health, Education, Space, Urban renewal, immigration et al. Similar goals and similar problems. Give or take the odd pedantic assessment.

So why then, is property to buy in Holland between TWO THIRDS and a HALF the price of the UK? And how is it possible to RENT an enormous apartment, overlooking a river or canal, with sumptuous rooms all with gargantuan proportions, beautiful fixtures and fittings, for UNDER half the cost of commensurate places in the UK?

I don't know the answer, but allow me to speculate: The UK has become a self-perpetuating, appallingly myopic bastion of hype and myth. The fact is that most conventional British properties are inadequate, tiny, mean, pathetic. We have become used to feeling grateful to live in an extended cupboard in W2, or a squalid semi in Acton and are made to feel humble and privileged to have the opportunity to take just four footsteps wall to wall and call it "HOME".

We are truly pathetic. Why don't we wake up and examine what is available in the rest of Europe? UK housing must be the laughing stock of our friends in the rest of Northern Europe.

I have spent the last couple of days surfing various agents in Holland. Almost without exception, rental housing, and its saleable equivalent, is not just vastly superior to the ludicrously sad properties we like to call "desirable". The difference is frankly EMBARRASSING.

Recently, a pilot friend of mine arrived in the UK with the prospect of us temporarily sharing a rented place until he and I sort out our permanent arragements. We looked at many many apratments in Surrey, Sussex, Kent and London Suburbs. Without exception everything we saw was, for the price, seedy, small, mean, lacking in basic style, badly built, over-priced and unattractive.

By stark contrast I went to Holland and looked at a few similarly-priced apartments. Almost all of them were presentable, spacious, attractive, designed with taste, inviting, well-equipped and highly desirable, BUT at a price which was CONSISTENTLY HALF that of UK properties in similar areas.

We really need to wake up here. UK property has become a ridiculous masquerade. I find it incredible that we all accept the conventional wisdom that we are willing to get excited about buying or renting what is essentially sub-standard, prosaic, crappy property which is riding on the very tired assumption that "this is how life is".

I can only urge you to have a look at comparitively-priced housing in Holland, Germany, Belgium and other Northern European towns and cities to gain an insight in the cynical con that is British housing.

I suggest you do a google search for Dutch property, and for a start you could try:

www.directwonen.nl

which has thousands of representative properties in Holland.

For a small taster here are a few pics of a very spacious apartment which is offered at EU 1600. Between two people that is EU 800 which is...what....500 quid a month. Look what you get compared to the average pathetic UK place.

_cid_image001.jpg_cid_image004.jpg_cid_image007.jpg

VacantPossession

Yeh, but we hate the English

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Interesting point. I'd like to know why prices are lower elsewhere. One possible contributory reason - fewer full time students living away from home therefore fewer BTLers?

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Holland, the most overpopulated place in Europe, and a greater population compared to the UK per hectare; reliant on service economy, about the same balance between manufacturing and non-manufacturing. Similar pressures on Health, Education, Space, Urban renewal, immigration et al. Similar goals and similar problems. Give or take the odd pedantic assessment.

So why then, is property to buy in Holland between TWO THIRDS and a HALF the price of the UK? And how is it possible to RENT an enormous apartment, overlooking a river or canal, with sumptuous rooms all with gargantuan proportions, beautiful fixtures and fittings, for UNDER half the cost of commensurate places in the UK?

[...]

VacantPossession

Interesting. I wonder if you have any knowledge of the following:

- How regulated is the Dutch mortgage market?

- What are tenants' rights like in the Netherlands?

- Do you pay capital gains tax when you sell your primary residence in the Netherlands?

frugalista

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Interesting point you raise but i believe you may be able to get similar style and value in the UK, though not in london. However my point, i heard from a dutch collegue that (not sure of the details) the tax law whereby you can offest your income tax against 50% (or something like that) of your mortgage payments is coming to an end this year. I think sooner rather than later. When the equivelant of this happened in the uk in 89/90 (was it - i'm 28 so dont really remember) the market went into severe decline.

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I suggest you do a google search for Dutch property, and for a start you could try:

www.directwonen.nl

which has thousands of representative properties in Holland.

VacantPossession

How about a one in English?

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Interesting. I wonder if you have any knowledge of the following:

- How regulated is the Dutch mortgage market?

- What are tenants' rights like in the Netherlands?

- Do you pay capital gains tax when you sell your primary residence in the Netherlands?

frugalista

I would guess mortgage costs are roughly the same. However the Dutch are closer to the Scottish system whereby you pledge to purchase early on and stand to lose a great deal of deposit if you pull out of the deal.

Tenant law in Holland broadly affords much more protection (to the tenant) than here. I suppose that could be interpreted as a reason for rents being cheaper, but personally I do not think that is significant. The market forces are more or less the same. There are properties which might, for various reasons, not sell and so they are rented. Or there are the same kind of landlords.

I do not believe any of these factors are particularly significant. As I outlined previously, my belief is that the whole CULTURE of housing in the rest of Europe is a world apart. The reason UK property is in a straight jacket could be that we simply accept sub-standard rubbish as the norm and everyone has by habit adjusted to paying grossly excessive prices for a hovel. More fool us.

VP

Interesting point. I'd like to know why prices are lower elsewhere. One possible contributory reason - fewer full time students living away from home therefore fewer BTLers?

No I don't think so.

VP

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Stamp Duty (a Dutch invention!) is 6% in the Netherlands and fees another 1.5% - 3% on top of that so I guess that would have dampening effect on the market and probably moderates boom/bust effects to some extent.

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A chap who used to work for me in Cisco Amsterdam - much younger and earning much less than me - bought what was effectively an old farm on the outskirts of AMS. It was a beautiful red brick building, a number of out buildings and loads of land in a country area.

I do not know how much he and his teacher wife paid but I knew I could not afford the same property here in the UK.

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I would guess mortgage costs are roughly the same. However the Dutch are closer to the Scottish system whereby you pledge to purchase early on and stand to lose a great deal of deposit if you pull out of the deal.

Actually what I asked was about mortgage regulation, rather than mortgage costs. I understand that in certain other countries (and in the olden days in Merrie Englande), the government actually has controls and rules on how much can be lent, how income is verified, how much deposit there must be, whether interest-only is allowed etc. etc. This tends to hold down prices as it prevents buyers from bidding up prices by taking on ever more imprudent amounts of debt.

frugalista

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I would guess mortgage costs are roughly the same. However the Dutch are closer to the Scottish system whereby you pledge to purchase early on and stand to lose a great deal of deposit if you pull out of the deal.

Tenant law in Holland broadly affords much more protection (to the tenant) than here. I suppose that could be interpreted as a reason for rents being cheaper, but personally I do not think that is significant. The market forces are more or less the same. There are properties which might, for various reasons, not sell and so they are rented. Or there are the same kind of landlords.

I do not believe any of these factors are particularly significant. As I outlined previously, my belief is that the whole CULTURE of housing in the rest of Europe is a world apart. The reason UK property is in a straight jacket could be that we simply accept sub-standard rubbish as the norm and everyone has by habit adjusted to paying grossly excessive prices for a hovel. More fool us.

VP

Now the interesting thing here is that a Netherlands guy posts regularly on a US-based site that I look at.

His view is that the Netherlands has itself gone through enormous HPI in the last 25 years. He keeps quoting 4-10 times 1980 prices.

I know UK prices seemed very high to me when I was there (from Australia) in the last few years, and we have also had rampant HPI.

Leaving aside the quality issue, I think a lot of UK people don't realise just how high their prices are by world standards.

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Leaving aside the quality issue, I think a lot of UK people don't realise just how high their prices are by world standards.

I agree. My job takes me through Europe and the US. When I return to the UK I simply cannot believe how high house prices are. :o

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I think much of the problems in this country still stem from our class system.

What! The proles want decent living accommodation? Why?

But we live in a classless society. Dont we?

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Stamp Duty (a Dutch invention!) is 6% in the Netherlands and fees another 1.5% - 3% on top of that so I guess that would have dampening effect on the market and probably moderates boom/bust effects to some extent.

It can't be that. We have 4.5-6% stamp duty here in aus. Hasn't stopped the boom here.

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Holland, the most overpopulated place in Europe, and a greater population compared to the UK per hectare; reliant on service economy, about the same balance between manufacturing and non-manufacturing. Similar pressures on Health, Education, Space, Urban renewal, immigration et al. Similar goals and similar problems. Give or take the odd pedantic assessment.

So why then, is property to buy in Holland between TWO THIRDS and a HALF the price of the UK? And how is it possible to RENT an enormous apartment, overlooking a river or canal, with sumptuous rooms all with gargantuan proportions, beautiful fixtures and fittings, for UNDER half the cost of commensurate places in the UK?

I don't know the answer, but allow me to speculate: The UK has become a self-perpetuating, appallingly myopic bastion of hype and myth. The fact is that most conventional British properties are inadequate, tiny, mean, pathetic. We have become used to feeling grateful to live in an extended cupboard in W2, or a squalid semi in Acton and are made to feel humble and privileged to have the opportunity to take just four footsteps wall to wall and call it "HOME".

We are truly pathetic. Why don't we wake up and examine what is available in the rest of Europe? UK housing must be the laughing stock of our friends in the rest of Northern Europe.

I have spent the last couple of days surfing various agents in Holland. Almost without exception, rental housing, and its saleable equivalent, is not just vastly superior to the ludicrously sad properties we like to call "desirable". The difference is frankly EMBARRASSING.

Recently, a pilot friend of mine arrived in the UK with the prospect of us temporarily sharing a rented place until he and I sort out our permanent arragements. We looked at many many apratments in Surrey, Sussex, Kent and London Suburbs. Without exception everything we saw was, for the price, seedy, small, mean, lacking in basic style, badly built, over-priced and unattractive.

By stark contrast I went to Holland and looked at a few similarly-priced apartments. Almost all of them were presentable, spacious, attractive, designed with taste, inviting, well-equipped and highly desirable, BUT at a price which was CONSISTENTLY HALF that of UK properties in similar areas.

We really need to wake up here. UK property has become a ridiculous masquerade. I find it incredible that we all accept the conventional wisdom that we are willing to get excited about buying or renting what is essentially sub-standard, prosaic, crappy property which is riding on the very tired assumption that "this is how life is".

I can only urge you to have a look at comparitively-priced housing in Holland, Germany, Belgium and other Northern European towns and cities to gain an insight in the cynical con that is British housing.

I suggest you do a google search for Dutch property, and for a start you could try:

www.directwonen.nl

which has thousands of representative properties in Holland.

For a small taster here are a few pics of a very spacious apartment which is offered at EU 1600. Between two people that is EU 800 which is...what....500 quid a month. Look what you get compared to the average pathetic UK place.

_cid_image001.jpg_cid_image004.jpg_cid_image007.jpg

VacantPossession

I couldn't agree more. As an expatriate living in Berlin for the last two years it is blindingly obvious that UK housing is a complete joke by international standards. A turn of the century, apartment in the coolest area of Berlin with 3m ceilings, period features, 3 bedrooms, typical rooms size 5m by 3m, balcony, bakers underneaths, cafe next door, haircut around the corner and quality of fixtures and fitting you can only dream of in the UK coast around 250K euros. (1.5million equiv in london)

Whats more for your 250Keuros you get a fantasic Inner city Life amongst people who respect each other and who are not drunk, no need to get in my depreciating car, use over priced petrol, whilst stuck in a traffic jam to get some poor quality croissants from the overpriced sainsbury's

I am sorry to say it, but the UK has just lost the plot completely

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I agree. My job takes me through Europe and the US. When I return to the UK I simply cannot believe how high house prices are. :o

Sadly, I have only been to the US once, and that was on holiday so I didn't check out prices except in tourist areas which are high everywhere.

I was in the UK last year, unfortunately helping my mother deal with her late sister's funeral. She inherited her sister's house in the Midlands, and I 'persuaded' her to sell it for the money rather than keep it as an investment.

Prices here in Australia are also surprisingly high in the capital cities (which collectively comprise about 80% of the Oz market; forget the outback myth, Australians are overwhelmingly urban/suburban). Also high at the coast, but in some smaller country towns astonishingly cheap by UK standards.

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Yeh, but we hate the English

I'm scottish (and a Rangers fan), when can I join?

Maybe one day people will learn that comments like that simply make the English puff their chests out and feel superior.

Edited by Flash

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Holland cheap :lol: Nah try this:

I just picked out a country villa with loads of land in Bulgaria at random for 13,000 Euros (about £8,000):

http://www.mybulgaria.info/property-in-bul...sale-34784.html

And in case you think this is a commercial, it isnt. If you cut out the middle man (the estate agent) and deal directly with the seller using an interpreter you can get about 50% or more off the estate agent prices, say £3,000.

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Holland, the most overpopulated place in Europe, and a greater population compared to the UK per hectare; reliant on service economy, about the same balance between manufacturing and non-manufacturing. Similar pressures on Health, Education, Space, Urban renewal, immigration et al. Similar goals and similar problems. Give or take the odd pedantic assessment.

So why then, is property to buy in Holland between TWO THIRDS and a HALF the price of the UK? And how is it possible to RENT an enormous apartment, overlooking a river or canal, with sumptuous rooms all with gargantuan proportions, beautiful fixtures and fittings, for UNDER half the cost of commensurate places in the UK?

I don't know the answer, but allow me to speculate: The UK has become a self-perpetuating, appallingly myopic bastion of hype and myth. The fact is that most conventional British properties are inadequate, tiny, mean, pathetic. We have become used to feeling grateful to live in an extended cupboard in W2, or a squalid semi in Acton and are made to feel humble and privileged to have the opportunity to take just four footsteps wall to wall and call it "HOME".

We are truly pathetic. Why don't we wake up and examine what is available in the rest of Europe? UK housing must be the laughing stock of our friends in the rest of Northern Europe.

I have spent the last couple of days surfing various agents in Holland. Almost without exception, rental housing, and its saleable equivalent, is not just vastly superior to the ludicrously sad properties we like to call "desirable". The difference is frankly EMBARRASSING.

Recently, a pilot friend of mine arrived in the UK with the prospect of us temporarily sharing a rented place until he and I sort out our permanent arragements. We looked at many many apratments in Surrey, Sussex, Kent and London Suburbs. Without exception everything we saw was, for the price, seedy, small, mean, lacking in basic style, badly built, over-priced and unattractive.

By stark contrast I went to Holland and looked at a few similarly-priced apartments. Almost all of them were presentable, spacious, attractive, designed with taste, inviting, well-equipped and highly desirable, BUT at a price which was CONSISTENTLY HALF that of UK properties in similar areas.

We really need to wake up here. UK property has become a ridiculous masquerade. I find it incredible that we all accept the conventional wisdom that we are willing to get excited about buying or renting what is essentially sub-standard, prosaic, crappy property which is riding on the very tired assumption that "this is how life is".

I can only urge you to have a look at comparitively-priced housing in Holland, Germany, Belgium and other Northern European towns and cities to gain an insight in the cynical con that is British housing.

I suggest you do a google search for Dutch property, and for a start you could try:

www.directwonen.nl

which has thousands of representative properties in Holland.

For a small taster here are a few pics of a very spacious apartment which is offered at EU 1600. Between two people that is EU 800 which is...what....500 quid a month. Look what you get compared to the average pathetic UK place.

_cid_image001.jpg_cid_image004.jpg_cid_image007.jpg

VacantPossession

Are you suggesting we all buy in Holland and commute everyday?

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This might sound stupid but does it have something to do with the popularity of the English language?

If you were, say, from an eastern European country and you wanted to go and work in a Western European country, where would you more easily get a job? In the Netherlands where they speak a language you probably haven't been taught or the UK where they speak English (the language of the internet)? Also, I believe a lot of people come to live here for a few years so they can improve their English. Could this have something to do with HPI being inflated here?

On another point, what is the personal debt levels in the Netherlands? (If anyone knows)

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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