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Ukraine Tells Eu To **** Off!

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The Ukraine has told the EU that it is not going to sign a Trade Association agreement with the EU, something that would have been a first step on the road to membership.

I think this is a good thing. I used to be an enthusiastic European, but enlarging to the East in 2004 with all the associated immigration, plus the Lisbon Treaty malarkey, and the rape of Greece and Cyprus have soured my emotional attachment.

The Baltic countries have only survived economically by exporting almost their entire young populations abroad and something similar awaited the Ukraine.

The BBC is going on about protests at this decision - echoes of the CIA's Orange Revolution of 2004.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25050202

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has a good piece which points out that this is a huge blow for the EU, but pins the blame on Russia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10469065/Historic-defeat-for-EU-as-Ukraine-returns-to-Kremlin-control.html

The New York times blames the IMF.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/world/europe/ukraine-blames-imf-for-collapse-of-accord-with-european-union.html

And RT blames the EU.

The biggest loser here is the EU because the EU has conceived this Association Agreement, like all the other agreements that it tries to sign with the former Eastern European states, as a geopolitical project. It is very important to understand that in the midst of all the accusations against Russia it is actually the EU which sees Eastern expansion as a geopolitical and indeed an ideological project.

We saw this back in September when Armenia, which of course in comparison to Ukraine is a tiny country and therefore is mostly below people’s radar screens; Armenia signed up for the customs union with Russia and the other members of the customs union of the customs union between Russia, Kazakhstan, and Belarus and so on. And immediately Brussels said that any possibility of it signing an Association Agreement with the EU was off the table.

So the EU back in September made it clear that you either have to sign an EU agreement or you had to sign the Russian one. If you wanted to sign the Russian one, you would not be allowed to sign the European one. And that is because it has been pursuing now, for 20 years as a European Union, as I say, geopolitical, ideological project of ever further integration. And that is what just hit the rocks today.

http://rt.com/op-edge/ukraine-eu-deal-russia-183/

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The Baltic countries have only survived economically by exporting almost their entire young populations abroad and something similar awaited the Ukraine.

I wonder what is going to happen as these countries depopulate, do they a future.

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I wonder what is going to happen as these countries depopulate, do they a future.

I can assure you these Baltic countries have a bright future, I realize we have a shrinking population here in Latvia, but I think most countries the new norm is to have one or two children, not the 3 children required for a growing population.

Latvia has one of the fastest rates of growth across Europe, Estonia is booming at the moment,

small populations with good natural resources, I did the sums and moved here 4 years ago, right now from my apartment building I can see all the roads have been redone, a brand new tram line just put in place, and loads of the Old apartment blocks have been restored,

I think the EU is putting a lot of money here, so some parts of the Eurozone do benefit

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.

I can assure you these Baltic countries have a bright future, I realize we have a shrinking population here in Latvia, but I think most countries the new norm is to have one or two children, not the 3 children required for a growing population.

Latvia has one of the fastest rates of growth across Europe, Estonia is booming at the moment,

small populations with good natural resources, I did the sums and moved here 4 years ago, right now from my apartment building I can see all the roads have been redone, a brand new tram line just put in place, and loads of the Old apartment blocks have been restored,

I think the EU is putting a lot of money here, so some parts of the Eurozone do benefit

Hmmm . . .

Latvia's low birth rate and decreasing population are major challenges to its long-term economic vitality. Latvia's economy experienced GDP growth of more than 10% per year during 2006-07, but entered a severe recession in 2008 as a result of an unsustainable current account deficit and large debt exposure amid the softening world economy. Triggered by the collapse of the second largest bank, GDP plunged 18% in 2009. The economy has not returned to pre-crisis levels despite strong growth, especially in the export sector in 2011-12. The IMF, EU, and other international donors provided substantial financial assistance to Latvia as part of an agreement to defend the currency's peg to the euro in exchange for the government's commitment to stringent austerity measures.

http://www.indexmundi.com/latvia/economy_profile.html

Youth unemployment over 33% and you're going to join the Euro in 2014. It sounds like paradise.

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The EU is just a more benign version of the old national socialist idea of a united europe under german control, as becomes increasingly clear as time goes by.

It's clear that 'democracy' in the EU is very much window dressing when the interests of germans are engaged- at which point goldman sachs apparatchiks are parachuted in to protect the status quo.

I was once very supportive of the EU- but watching their destruction of the Greeks and the Cypriots changed my mind.

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The EU is just a more benign version of the old national socialist idea of a united europe under german control, as becomes increasingly clear as time goes by.

It's clear that 'democracy' in the EU is very much window dressing when the interests of germans are engaged- at which point goldman sachs apparatchiks are parachuted in to protect the status quo.

I was once very supportive of the EU- but watching their destruction of the Greeks and the Cypriots changed my mind.

How long do you think it can all hang together? What kind of event/events would it take to make EZ break up a reality?

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Hmmm . . .

http://www.indexmund...my_profile.html

Youth unemployment over 33% and you're going to join the Euro in 2014. It sounds like paradise.

Those statistics are not correct, we are already in the Euro area and have been since 2004, the currency the Lat has been pegged to the EURO for years, so it is only an advantage for adopting the EURO as money will not be lost between exchanging currencies.

Estonia recently adopted the Euro and is now doing very well for itself, I think so many investments are being made here through the EU, for example Riga the capital is the European Capital of culture for 2014, so many projects underway there, Its not as Grim as you might think......

Everyone seems so Anti Euro, but im certainly not against the Euro/Eurozone idea I can see that it really benefits some countries.

latvia-youth-unemployment-rate.png?s=latviayouunerat

Edit to add updated chart, Looks to be improving although still a way to go, but actually surprisingly better than the UK!!!!!!

Edited by Grayphil

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Those statistics are not correct, we are already in the Euro area and have been since 2004, the currency the Lat has been pegged to the EURO for years, so it is only an advantage for adopting the EURO as money will not be lost between exchanging currencies.

Estonia recently adopted the Euro and is now doing very well for itself, I think so many investments are being made here through the EU, for example Riga the capital is the European Capital of culture for 2014, so many projects underway there, Its not as Grim as you might think......

Everyone seems so Anti Euro, but im certainly not against the Euro/Eurozone idea I can see that it really benefits some countries.

How can you describe a situation where you have to export most of your young people as good? I suppose when it's totally deserted, Latvia will get some kind of IMF award.

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How can you describe a situation where you have to export most of your young people as good? I suppose when it's totally deserted, Latvia will get some kind of IMF award.

I think re read the above post, the employment level is improving and better than the UK , I have many friends that have returned from the UK as the high rents etc mean they cant actually save any money, the whole idea about going abroad was that supposedly you would be able to send vast sums of money back to support your family, this is not really possible in the UK anymore which is why the young are returning....

I don't think its a good idea to export the youth, that is silly. I am merely saying that the situation is improving here, and not as bad as it is made out to be, the Latvian Government has policies in place now to increase the amount of children born, the benefits are considerably better than my brother is receiving in the UK.

I do believe that things are getting better over here, and its wrong to dismiss a country on ill formed pre conceptions

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I think re read the above post, the employment level is improving and better than the UK , I have many friends that have returned from the UK as the high rents etc mean they cant actually save any money, the whole idea about going abroad was that supposedly you would be able to send vast sums of money back to support your family, this is not really possible in the UK anymore which is why the young are returning....

I don't think its a good idea to export the youth, that is silly. I am merely saying that the situation is improving here, and not as bad as it is made out to be, the Latvian Government has policies in place now to increase the amount of children born, the benefits are considerably better than my brother is receiving in the UK.

I do believe that things are getting better over here, and its wrong to dismiss a country on ill formed pre conceptions

Please post a chart showing numbers of young people in full time jobs increasing.

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Please post a chart showing numbers of young people in full time jobs increasing.

Latvia

Sarmīte Pīlāte

Describe the youth unemployment situation in Latvia.

The percentage of unemployed young stood at 10,2 % in February 2013. This means 11.001 young persons in age group 15-24. In comparison with year 2012, youth unemployment has decreased by 1,6 percentage points – 4614 young persons less. In 2012 14.980 young unemployed secured regular work.

Most of the young unemployed do not have a profession and have a low level of education. More than 4000 young unemployed have only comprehensive secondary education. The State Employment Office estimates there are less than 942 young unemployed with higher education.

http://www.lline.fi/en

I could find a chart, but I have to prepare dinner! but just a quick Google and im sure you could find it, however, all sources say the situation is improving and im surprised you so easily dismiss this....

I may be wrong, I probably am, but I recently drove through St Petersburg with a Latvian registered car, and the hatred it generated because Russians are so bitter about the breakaway of the Baltics, I notice your Avatar is Putin, are you Russian??

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Latvia

Sarmīte Pīlāte

Describe the youth unemployment situation in Latvia.

The percentage of unemployed young stood at 10,2 % in February 2013. This means 11.001 young persons in age group 15-24. In comparison with year 2012, youth unemployment has decreased by 1,6 percentage points – 4614 young persons less. In 2012 14.980 young unemployed secured regular work.

Most of the young unemployed do not have a profession and have a low level of education. More than 4000 young unemployed have only comprehensive secondary education. The State Employment Office estimates there are less than 942 young unemployed with higher education.

http://www.lline.fi/en

Yes, but is youth unemployment falling because young people are getting jobs in Latvia or because they are leaving the country?

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Are they playing off Russia against the EU? Or trapped between bickering superpowers?

This is the actions of the president, not the people.

Most Ukrainians want to join the EU, the problem is corrupt politicians and the Russia minority get in the way.

Ukrainians hate the corruption and economic disaster that being close to Russia involves.

Anti-Eu fanatics have no idea how much better the EU is than the Russia system.

In response to Ukraine suspending talks over a trade and political agreement with the EU, jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko has written a letter to president Viktor Yanukovich. Here it is...

This is the only chance for you to survive as a politician, because now, when you are killing the Agreement you are making the biggest mistake of your life.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2013/11/22/yulia-tymoshenko-a-letter-to-yanukovitch/

Edited by Peter Hun

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Yes, but is youth unemployment falling because young people are getting jobs in Latvia or because they are leaving the country?

OK I understand the questions posted, I cannot give a correct answer. I suspect its due to improving conditions here, Latvia did have one of the sharpest GDP contractions in the western world, that was in 2008, I was merely trying to state that in the 5 years post the situation has improved, and the Youth unemployment rate was not 33% and that the country would not be deserted in 10 years because that is nonsense.

This country does have a future, and if the population drops more it will still have a future, I believe because of the natural resources such as its relatively large fertile landmass compared to population size, it has low housing costs and taxes.

If young people are leaving the country its because they have been subjected to propaganda about how much better the rest of the world is, when in truth it is very hard to gain an advantage by relocating to most parts of the developed world.

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This is the actions of the president, not the people.

Most Ukrainians want to join the EU, the problem is corrupt politicians and the Russia minority get in the way.

Ukrainians hate the corruption and economic disaster that being close to Russia involves.

Anti-Eu fanatics have no idea how much better the EU is than the Russia system.

Correct, I have many friends in the Ukraine currently very upset about this, Vitali Klitschko has the correct idea (IMO)

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Yes, but is youth unemployment falling because young people are getting jobs in Latvia or because they are leaving the country?

It's falling because they are leaving -

http://www.france24.com/en/20120522-latvia-emigration-population-brain-drain-economy

The figures are daunting. A 2011 survey revealed the Latvian population shrank from 2.2 million in 2000 to just 2.0 million as of last year -- plunging 13.0 percent in little more than a decade.
"Most emigrants are young -- about 80 percent of recent emigrants are under 35 -- hence the remaining population is ageing faster," said Hazans, whose studies have referred to the trend as a "demographic disaster".

"Do we have some hope that they will come back? Unfortunately not very much. After three years the number who are planning to come back in the short run drops from ten to three percent."

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Anti-Eu fanatics have no idea how much better the EU is than the Russia system.

Irony: people here celebrating this as a rejection of the tyrannical "EUSSR"

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I notice your Avatar is Putin, are you Russian??

No, I'm Welsh.

I used to be a Liberal Democrat, but it was Putin, not Nick Clegg, who opted for peace over Syria. :)

Dorkins has pointed out the obvious weakness in your argument.

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Correct, I have many friends in the Ukraine currently very upset about this, Vitali Klitschko has the correct idea (IMO)

That would be the same section of the population who fought in the Waffen SS during the war.

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