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clarioniq

Return Of The Property Bulls

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With all of the positive press on the housing market, I'm starting to notice a return of the annoying smug property bull boring me to death at dinner parties, something I haven't experienced for a few years.

One guy recently chewed my ear off for hours about how property is an amazing investment and will only go one way because we're a small overcrowded island. With how he was talking, I thought he'd made a packet based on shrewd property investment. In the end it came out that he only had £300k of equity in a £1.2 million house. A house like that could fall 20% and wipe him out in the blink of an eyelid given a few percentage points on interest rates.

I also know a bloke who recently traded up from an overpriced £300k flat to an overpriced £550k flat in central London. He is constantly going on what a great and shrewed investment his last purchase was in the 2008 dip. From my perspective, he was lucky to be bailed out by a sea of printed money, and has just taken his ill gotten gains, leveraged them up, and taken them back to the casino table for another spin.

I earn more than both of these guys put together, but live in a small flat miles away from London just because I see how ridiculous our current housing market is. This makes these conversations particularly annoying and takes massive willpower not to tell these guys how it is!

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Ask the bulls where that equity in their houses come from and could then now afford the house they live in.

After they reply shake your head and say, like any pyramid scheme, it will eventually collapse.

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Colleague at work - absolute bull relating every coffeee time how their house had gone up another 10k that week, and why did I rent as it was dead money.

8 weeks ago a breath of fresh air blew though - the same colleague said "properties aren't going up any more" - with a slight hint of nervousness

last week - same colleague - "well, properties are going up again" - and their confidence had returned.

Yesterday, a 25yr old ran into the coffee room full of the excitement of buying their first house - to congratulations all around, they announced:

"It's a bit more expensive than I wanted, but at least I am on the ladder"

hugs were given and there was almost a round of applause.

Their only worry was whether they could afford the bill for the solicitors fees when it arrives next week :blink:

Edited by LiveinHope

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You must always remember thay are trying to convince themselves, they don't actually want to know what you think. Purchase justification is normal human behaviour. They are probably terrified if you dig deep enough.

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Ask the bulls where that equity in their houses come from and could then now afford the house they live in.

After they reply shake your head and say, like any pyramid scheme, it will eventually collapse.

It's worse than a pyramid scheme - it's all borrowed and leveraged money going into the bottom.

Those old pyramid schemes selling Tupperware to Housewives had more legs to them than the UK housing market.

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It's worse than a pyramid scheme - it's all borrowed and leveraged money going into the bottom.

Those old pyramid schemes selling Tupperware to Housewives had more legs to them than the UK housing market.

I used to work with someone who had a garage full of Swipe detergent, having got in at the death of that particular pyramid. At least it was a reasonable detergent and he's probably not had to buy any for the last forty five years.

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Their only worry was whether they could afford the bill for the solicitors fees when it arrives next week :blink:

:lol:

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A month ago we moved into a flat in Walthamstow (east London) which we are renting from one of those people who just keeps the old property every time they move and rents it out. On the day we came to pick up the keys he was going on about how the flat has gone up in value by £50k this year, we just smiled and nodded. My girlfriend is as bearish as I am on London property prices so we laughed about it afterwards. From the Land Registry we know he bought it in the last 12 months. I definitely wouldn't want to be sitting on a highly leveraged portfolio of flats in slighty dodgy parts of London when this thing goes pop.

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A month ago we moved into a flat in Walthamstow (east London) which we are renting from one of those people who just keeps the old property every time they move and rents it out. On the day we came to pick up the keys he was going on about how the flat has gone up in value by £50k this year, we just smiled and nodded. My girlfriend is as bearish as I am on London property prices so we laughed about it afterwards. From the Land Registry we know he bought it in the last 12 months. I definitely wouldn't want to be sitting on a highly leveraged portfolio of flats in slighty dodgy parts of London when this thing goes pop.

Walthamstow always at the cutting edge of what's happening.....like the gas mask hoodie that first appeared on Walthamstow market. Wonder what stocking fillers for the local youth will be on sale this year.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/2255752.0/?act=complaint&cid=1533276

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Sadly, it looks like there is every chance we are off to the moon on asset prices for a couple of years at least.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-22/hugh-hendry-capitulates-cant-look-himself-mirror-he-throws-towel-turns-bullish

I'm trying to prepare myself for what could be 2 or 3 years of madness.

I doubt it. London will collapse soon, have you see the mad asking prices ?, In the shires all the rubbish from last year is still sat up for sale at 2007 prices, the new stuff coming on a 2007++ prices in the hope HTB will dig them out a whole is just going to sit there forever. Borrowing in this messed up world is cheaper, for some but wages have not gone up and disposable income has plummeted. We are back to the 2007/2008 point where the whole sorry mess had to come tumbling down. The housing market is dead, any hope of reviving it is well gone. The best thing they can do is let it collapse and start investing in real jobs. Rather than building a housing estate, build some factories and houses nearby.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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A month ago we moved into a flat in Walthamstow (east London) which we are renting from one of those people who just keeps the old property every time they move and rents it out. On the day we came to pick up the keys he was going on about how the flat has gone up in value by £50k this year, we just smiled and nodded. My girlfriend is as bearish as I am on London property prices so we laughed about it afterwards. From the Land Registry we know he bought it in the last 12 months. I definitely wouldn't want to be sitting on a highly leveraged portfolio of flats in slighty dodgy parts of London when this thing goes pop.

Built for a Victorian factory worker and his family, now if you are the aspiring middle class you can own a part of it for a cool quarter of a million. Progress........

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40634773.html

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Slight error ... yes built for a Victorian factory worker and his family, but the quarter of a million only buys you half of it, for the 'family' bit ie the bedrooms you will need to find ANOTHER quarter of a million. That's progress and good value for Dave's 'hard-working' families.

Leasehold too with 70 years remaining according to the advert. I read somewhere (sorry no link) that banks won't give a buyer a mortgage for leaseholds with =<70 years remaining.

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They would simply reverse that statement, changing bulls for bears, and say the same thing about everyone on here!

Which would only work for London and a few select towns like Cambridge and Reading. Everywhere else the bulls have got their tail between their legs with prices still below 2004 levels. I'm a homeowner up north and I still can't see any of this boom, it's beyond perception still. Probably will change from hereonin, but northern bears have been in the box seat for a decade, no argument.

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Which would only work for London and a few select towns like Cambridge and Reading. Everywhere else the bulls have got their tail between their legs with prices still below 2004 levels. I'm a homeowner up north and I still can't see any of this boom, it's beyond perception still. Probably will change from hereonin, but northern bears have been in the box seat for a decade, no argument.

Yep, where I am (Lincolnshire ) the market is as dead as ever. I know a few people who have had their houses on the market for weeks or even months with not one single viewing. All this talk of a boom is like reading about some parallel universe.

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With all of the positive press on the housing market, I'm starting to notice a return of the annoying smug property bull boring me to death at dinner parties, something I haven't experienced for a few years.

One guy recently chewed my ear off for hours about how property is an amazing investment and will only go one way because we're a small overcrowded island. With how he was talking, I thought he'd made a packet based on shrewd property investment. In the end it came out that he only had £300k of equity in a £1.2 million house. A house like that could fall 20% and wipe him out in the blink of an eyelid given a few percentage points on interest rates.

I also know a bloke who recently traded up from an overpriced £300k flat to an overpriced £550k flat in central London. He is constantly going on what a great and shrewed investment his last purchase was in the 2008 dip. From my perspective, he was lucky to be bailed out by a sea of printed money, and has just taken his ill gotten gains, leveraged them up, and taken them back to the casino table for another spin.

I earn more than both of these guys put together, but live in a small flat miles away from London just because I see how ridiculous our current housing market is. This makes these conversations particularly annoying and takes massive willpower not to tell these guys how it is!

Shouldn`t you just be laughing in their faces then ? :lol: Being a debt drone or relying on pretend property wealth for your future is so last decade, why don`t you just say "well we know how Ponzi`s usually end" or "I suppose it is worth what someone else can borrow", and just walk away laughing?

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Sadly, it looks like there is every chance we are off to the moon on asset prices for a couple of years at least.

http://www.zerohedge...l-turns-bullish

I'm trying to prepare myself for what could be 2 or 3 years of madness.

So is this would be central Edinburgh seller, http://www.espc.com/properties/details.aspx?pid=329252, I bet they are gripping the arms of the chair in anticipation of the moon shot :lol:

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I'm starting to wonder what a massive housebuilding programme will do for prices in 2014 / 15?

could all this ramping and Help To Bubble rubbish actually be designed to merely counteract a HPC caused by a large increase in new supply of new build properties?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a large housebuilding annoucement coming in the pipeline, a lot of the rabid property morons I work with seem to prefer new builds over older housing, which hopefully will suck a lot of buyers out of the market for older properties that I'm interested in. Everyone who signs up for one of these teaser rate taxpayer underwritten schemes on a new build will be out of the market for years probably.

Maybe there will be a 2 speed market where new build prices hold up OK with all the govt support for their housebuilder mates, whilst older stuff needing a bit of work will drift down as fewer and fewer people can afford / be bothered to fix them up - here's hoping anyway.

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I'm starting to wonder what a massive housebuilding programme will do for prices in 2014 / 15?

could all this ramping and Help To Bubble rubbish actually be designed to merely counteract a HPC caused by a large increase in new supply of new build properties?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a large housebuilding annoucement coming in the pipeline, a lot of the rabid property morons I work with seem to prefer new builds over older housing, which hopefully will suck a lot of buyers out of the market for older properties that I'm interested in. Everyone who signs up for one of these teaser rate taxpayer underwritten schemes on a new build will be out of the market for years probably.

Maybe there will be a 2 speed market where new build prices hold up OK with all the govt support for their housebuilder mates, whilst older stuff needing a bit of work will drift down as fewer and fewer people can afford / be bothered to fix them up - here's hoping anyway.

Mass house building would be guaranteed if it were a "traditional" labour government. What's blurred the lines is the huge expansion in public sector middle management over the last labour government. labour moved to try to take the middle ground, and became more interested in the votes of the champagne socialist and the BTL'er.

Both parties I think are eyeing housebuilding nervously. On the one hand it provides a potential economic stimulus and addresses a significant need in the country. On the other both sides are concerned that going full steam ahead will isolate key sections of their supporters. There is the additional problem that ultra high building could collapse the banks as well.

At some point the balance will tip and it will become more beneficial for one party or the other to "do something" about housebuilding. I think Labour will be the first party to be in a position to benefit from taking this stance. It's still a big gamble at the moment.

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A month ago we moved into a flat in Walthamstow (east London) which we are renting from one of those people who just keeps the old property every time they move and rents it out. On the day we came to pick up the keys he was going on about how the flat has gone up in value by £50k this year, we just smiled and nodded. My girlfriend is as bearish as I am on London property prices so we laughed about it afterwards. From the Land Registry we know he bought it in the last 12 months. I definitely wouldn't want to be sitting on a highly leveraged portfolio of flats in slighty dodgy parts of London when this thing goes pop.

Who cares what they think their property is worth or will be worth.....what matters is what you pay to live free with choices and freedom....what you have never had you can never lose. ;)

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Yep, where I am (Lincolnshire ) the market is as dead as ever. I know a few people who have had their houses on the market for weeks or even months with not one single viewing. All this talk of a boom is like reading about some parallel universe.

The talk of a boom is just that...talk.

Media lead government bull s hit...aka propaganda.

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