Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Guest_FaFa!_*

Unpaid Interns

Recommended Posts

Just reading an article on unpaid interns. As this is the Guardian I now feel less sorry for them than before I started reading. Frankly they sound phenomenally naive at best and like a bunch of whiny, gormless mugs unable to stand up for themselves at worst.

They all seem to be working for nearly a year doing dull admin jobs for free before it dawns on them that they aren't going to get a full time job.

Others whining about people laughing at them when they cut their finger or complaining that some bloke promised them 80 quid for cleaning their house then didn't pay.

The real problem is none of them appear to have a spine and put up with bullying. Am I being harsh?

Sorry I can't seem to cut and paste on my phone

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/nov/22/interns-all-work-no-pay-internships

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're all heart! Ive some sympathy for them... you just don't know whats what in your first few weeks of your first job in your chosen field. They learn a nasty lesson, that many people are unhappy in their lives and will take it out on you.

Look at the fields they want to work in... they are over subscribed 'dream' type jobs so this type of abuse is possible. They have been sold an unattainable dream by their education sadly. Follow your dream is valid advice for a minority... for most they should just accept if they want to be paid they have to do things that people won't do unless they get paid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience the whiny, useless interns are the ones whose parents have got them the position by pulling in favours. Without exception they have been a waste of oxygen. In contrast, the proactive, go-getting interns that have contacted us off their own bat have been excellent. They all get exploited the same unfortunately. The useless ones leave first, usually to go on an extended holiday at parental cost. The keen and capable ones usually stick it out for several months until they get the right position to move to. They are not mugs. The mugs are the cheap, short-sighted companies that let them go (and then replace them with useless kids of their mates again).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.

It's very hard to stand up to workplace bullies when they are supported in their actions by the company's infrastructure. It must be more difficult for interns to stand up for themselves than bona fide employees.

One could argue that interns can easily leave if they don't like the job especially since they are not paid - but who would want a black mark on their CV given the current job market for young people?

Unpaid internships should be banned - they are barriers to social mobility and provide a framework for employers to take advantage of employees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just the young doing unpaid interns.

Friend of mine self-funded an MBA and then had completed a nine month unpaid intern at a large US financial (London based), 4 years ago at the age of 35.

It paid off for him as he’s on stupid money now, but unpaid are seen as a “rite of passage” to certain careers now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first graduate job was paid slightly less p/h than the McJob+commission I did part time as a student!

I felt really aggrieved at that but thought it would be a stepping stone to something better later on. It wasn't.

Today I'm sure those first rung jobs would be done for free by interns. That's all 99.9% of interns are, isn't it? A free worker.

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In your first job you don't know what "normal" is.

I started in a very relaxed IT company where we finished at 4pm and had free food/drink provided and everyone was very chilled out (too chilled out as the investors pulled out and 2/3rds of us were made redundant!)

Next job was working in a 3 person company where I slowly grew to hate the other 2 people as they were emotionally unstable, racist weirdos.

I didn't appreciate the niceness of my first job until I worked in the second one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HMRC has had a thing about this recently. If they get anything "free" then the count as being employed and need NMW or there's trouble.

Or even being promised work at the end of it...

"Amanda is a unpaid intern at a design company. She’s been promised that she’ll be taken on as an employee after 3 months. This counts as a reward, so she must be paid at least the minimum wage for the whole time she spends at the company."

https://www.gov.uk/volunteering/pay-and-expenses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unpaid internships should be banned - they are barriers to social mobility and provide a framework for employers to take advantage of employees.

They are already illegal. If an employer uses the concept to take advantage of workers, they fall foul of minimum wage legislation. If an intern really isn't a worker* then it is legal to offer that experience** with no remuneration. The problem arises when there are many cases where companies try to palm off as unpaid 'work experience' that which would actually be legally defined as unpaid 'work'.

* That is to say they are just shadowing a rôle/training and do not have expected hours/sanctions for absence, do not fulfil any set tasks or duties and add nothing of appreciable value to the company.

** I say experience, because if it really falls under the above category, it can't really be considered a 'position'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a laugh at this graduate

You leave university thinking, "Why wouldn't anyone hire me, with my 2:1 in Victorian literature? I'm a catch!" Before you realise you're 10-a-penny, you think landing a job at the end of a two-week placement is realistic, even likely.

There are far too many 20 somethings spending 3 years training in subjects like that. Well at least it didn't take her long to find out the truth, but it would have been better to find it out aged 17 and do something useful instead of at 22.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.

It's very hard to stand up to workplace bullies when they are supported in their actions by the company's infrastructure. It must be more difficult for interns to stand up for themselves than bona fide employees.

One could argue that interns can easily leave if they don't like the job especially since they are not paid - but who would want a black mark on their CV given the current job market for young people?

Unpaid internships should be banned - they are barriers to social mobility and provide a framework for employers to take advantage of employees.

I also am not a big fan of internships as they favour those who can afford to work for free.

However interns can quit anytime and unless they are so stupid that they been working somewhere for free for a notable amount of time then they need not mention it on their CV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting people to "work for free" is not capitalism, since no capital has changed hands! Sounds a bit "spoony" to me! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a laugh at this graduate

There are far too many 20 somethings spending 3 years training in subjects like that. Well at least it didn't take her long to find out the truth, but it would have been better to find it out aged 17 and do something useful instead of at 22.

The problem is there are also a heck of a lot of 20 somethings doing STEM subjects or similar that also end up finding out exactly the same.

Simply too many youngsters chasing too few jobs, when there is already a whole mass of multi-year experienced individuals also competing for those positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the fields they want to work in... they are over subscribed 'dream' type jobs so this type of abuse is possible.

Bingo. As one of them said, they want a "cool job". Hey, guess what? So do twenty million other people, and most of them are better qualified and harder working than they are.

The worst part is that the only people who can afford to do this for long are rich folks' kids, so it's basically a way for the upper class to ensure their kids get "cool jobs" and the riff-raff don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of some relevance here.

LONDON (AP) — A British coroner says a young intern who worked at Bank of America Merrill Lynch died of an epileptic seizure that may have been triggered by fatigue.

The body of 21-year-old Moritz Erhardt was found in the shower of his London flat in August. The case has sparked widespread speculation that the notorious long working hours and competitive environment at top investment banks were to blame for his death.

Coroner Mary Hassell said Friday that Erhardt died after an epileptic seizure, despite regularly taking medication. She told an inquest one possibility was that "because Moritz had been working so hard his fatigue was a trigger for the seizure that killed him."

The bank said in August it has launched a review of its working conditions, especially for its junior staff.

http://www.myfoxny.com/Story/24046575/coroner-merrill-lynch-intern-died-from-seizure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is there are also a heck of a lot of 20 somethings doing STEM subjects or similar that also end up finding out exactly the same.

Simply too many youngsters chasing too few jobs, when there is already a whole mass of multi-year experienced individuals also competing for those positions.

.....yes, how can any job have a particular price attached to it....only supply and demand can set the price paid for anything. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair though, nowadays it probably makes more sense to do a period of unpaid work rather than spending £9k a year on a worthless degree!

You probably needed to obtain a "useless degree" first! Maybe PPE from Cambridge! Shame on them! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is there are also a heck of a lot of 20 somethings doing STEM subjects or similar that also end up finding out exactly the same.

Simply too many youngsters chasing too few jobs, when there is already a whole mass of multi-year experienced individuals also competing for those positions.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   217 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.