Si1 Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Interestingly, one of the problems of the 1970s was the underlying consensus between the parties, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Interestingly, one of the problems of the 1970s was the underlying consensus between the parties, too At least when the unions held the country to ransom (if they ever really did..) the proceeds went to several million union members and their families. When the banks hold the country to ransom.. the proceeds go to a select few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 At least when the unions held the country to ransom (if they ever really did..) the proceeds went to several million union members and their families. When the banks hold the country to ransom.. the proceeds go to a select few. Something like a million people employed in financial services in the uk, granted the top part made the lions share, but they all profited to some degree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 You sir, are a bad man... Stiglitz in The Price of Inequality discusses the problems of removing US mortgage interest deductions. After walking you through why hitting these deductions is bad for demand on the one hand then discussing the fact that interest deductions encourage indebtedness on the other hand, he throws his Hail Mary pass... Source: Joseph E. Stiglitz, The Price of Inequality, (2012, Penguin, London), emphasis in source I'll see your "Labour offer bailouts" and raise you a "Tory promise that they will provide a tax relief which converts HTB 1 equity loans into equity..." Don't know which is worse or whether we'll see either, but they'll be greater madness than HTB 1 equity loans and the Reverend Flowers between here and the bitter end. Still at least we are getting started, . Strokes chin Reluctantly agrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Cameron has been very good, i dont think he has put a step wrong, i think Cameron will win. I'm definitely right leaning in my politics, but to be honest Cameron does not come across well. He has an arrogant streak and his eyes pop out with indignation at mere mortals like some Bulligdon boy bully. If you have a list of most annoying politicians then Cameron is up there with Miliband and Balls. So yep Labour have also shot themselves in the foot with the whining overgrown schoolboy gonk who looks a bit awkward. Unbelievable now that I see Theresa May as the jewel in the crown, I thought Cameron was the best candidate in 2005. She has a strange humility about her, she looks nervous all the time and very ordinary, but suddenly ordinary looks bloody fantastic compared to the Bullingdon bully and Milliband the school swot that gets picked last on your football team in the playground. Even as she makes a complete f**k up of Home Office you just can't get angry with the woman, bolstered by her unfortunate weight loss caused by diabetes. Suddenly we have Joan of Arc, St Teresa of Avila and the thinking man's crumpet all in one............. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100185189/the-irresistible-rise-of-theresa-may/ Edited November 23, 2013 by crashmonitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarioniq Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I will vote for labour next time purely in protest at Help to Buy. Much of the housing bubble grew under Labour deregulation, but they didn't attempt anything as cynically aimed at keeping the bubble inflated as Help To Buy. Housing is the most important thing in almost all of our lives. A good quality affordable roof over our head personally impacts us more than the national debt, healthcare, education, defence, foreign policy etc. They have cynically tried to keep this away for us - keeping the population in massive debt for 30 years and directing almost a lifetime of earnings to bankers. It's a disgusting policy and they've lost my vote for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Interestingly, one of the problems of the 1970s was the underlying consensus between the parties, too Median voter theorem In his 1929 paper titled Stability in Competition, Harold Hotelling notes in passing that political candidates' platforms seem to converge during majoritarian elections. Hotelling compared political elections to businesses in the private sector. He postulated that just as there is often not much difference between the products of different competing companies, so, too, there is not a stark contrast between electoral platforms of different parties. This is because politicians, just like salesmen with consumers, seek to capture the majority of voters. Which IMO is not necessarily a bad thing, if we managed to design an electoral system that encouraged the parties to diverge then sooner or later we'd have a choice between the Nazi party and the communists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John51 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I know it's a thin market at present but Betfair has the odds for getting most seats at: labour 4/7, cons 6/5 and libdems 150/1. Interestingly, it is 80/1 for 'Any Other' which suggests that UKIP (or maybe the greens?) are almost twice as likely to get a majority as the libdems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 They're all glib but the overwhelming standout thing about Cameron is how everything that he says is so obviously glib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 The biggest problem with regards the economy is that I am yet to meet anyone (literally ANYONE) who is benefitting. Seriously? Personal experience: Every client we work for (IT services) investing across all sectors Retail, Insurance, Manufacturing and Media (a lot of it effectively export working for foreign companies) My Mum broke her arm the other day still in hospital in Frimley near Farnham, service superb plenty of empty beds....I have no time for people who can't see their GP the problem is demand side and anyway why do people pride themselves on seeing a doctor? Petrol going down, as for low IR most small business owners don't have savings they use whatever money they can get their hands on to create money for themselves and as is always pointed out the majority of the jobs in this country Wage pressure building (no bad thing even as a boss shows we are recovering) If anyone has such a short memory that they can even talk about voting those Labour K***** in then they deserve all they get. We aren't fixed yet but we are on our way and the only way was a tory way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Something like a million people employed in financial services in the uk, granted the top part made the lions share, but they all profited to some degree Like having a £22k bank clerks job and being forced to work Saturday mornings? Come on Si1 if that's profiting so do Mc'd's managers and Starbucks Barristas Save your bile for the Canary Wharf crowd Edited November 23, 2013 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 If anyone has such a short memory that they can even talk about voting those Labour K***** in then they deserve all they get. We aren't fixed yet but we are on our way and the only way was a tory way I could never vote Labour, I shall be voting UKIP. When we have a proper Conservative party, not a bunch of champagne socialists led by a career politician who will do anything to cling onto power, I shall vote for it, but not these jokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Like having a £22k bank clerks job and being forced to work Saturday mornings? Come on Si1 if that's profiting so do Mc'd's managers and Starbucks Barristas Save your bile for the Canary Wharf crowd Thing is the more debt you own, the higher your expectations, outgoings, commitments....the more money you need to earn to stand still....earning more doesn't mean you have more or feel like you have more or need more or are in fact richer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Like having a £22k bank clerks job and being forced to work Saturday mornings? Come on Si1 if that's profiting so do Mc'd's managers and Starbucks Barristas Save your bile for the Canary Wharf crowd By the same token the majority of the 2 million people represented by the big militant unions in the seventies neither profited that much nor promoted union militancy I was just making a comparison with fluffy's figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperChimp Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 If anyone has such a short memory that they can even talk about voting those Labour K***** in then they deserve all they get. We aren't fixed yet but we are on our way and the only way was a tory way On our way to recovery? - UK government debt has not fallen. - UK budget deficit has barely fallen. If you strip out the so-called gains from the Royal Mail pension portfolio it is worse now than under Labour. - Huge trade imbalance. - Huge underemployment rate. The unemployment rate has not fallen. - Household debt has risen and the savings ratio has fallen. - Sterling has lost value yet exports have not risen. - Mortgages in most of the country will be unaffordable when interest rates return to zero. - Most public-sector building work is being done via PFI schemes which is keeping a large proportion of debt off the balance sheets and in-debting the next generation. Can you really not see beyond your Daily Mail and Telegraph propaganda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 On our way to recovery? - UK government debt has not fallen. - UK budget deficit has barely fallen. If you strip out the so-called gains from the Royal Mail pension portfolio it is worse now than under Labour. - Huge trade imbalance. - Huge underemployment rate. The unemployment rate has not fallen. - Household debt has risen and the savings ratio has fallen. - Sterling has lost value yet exports have not risen. - Mortgages in most of the country will be unaffordable when interest rates return to zero. - Most public-sector building work is being done via PFI schemes which is keeping a large proportion of debt off the balance sheets and in-debting the next generation. Can you really not see beyond your Daily Mail and Telegraph propaganda? He did say on our way, ie not there yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I could never vote Labour, I shall be voting UKIP. Much the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Much the same thing. So you keep saying but it's not the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 So you keep saying but it's not the same to me. Man up. If you can't tell the difference say so and then don't bother voting at all, don't tell me you're going to vote for a whackjob protest party then pretend that it's a moral decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Man up. If you can't tell the difference say so and then don't bother voting at all, don't tell me you're going to vote for a whackjob protest party then pretend that it's a moral decision. Morality has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Goldfish Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I can't see Labour winning. I've always thought the Tories would get a majority in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperChimp Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I can't see Labour winning. I've always thought the Tories would get a majority in 2015. It really doesn't matter. As has been shown on this site multiple times they are all the same. Labour, Conservative, LibDem, UKIP. Same attitudes towards the banking system, the monetary system, the financial sector and the housing crisis. They might disagree slightly about immigration or the railways but on the real economic issues you might as well see them as one big party. If Labour had won at the last election they would have introduced Help to Buy. If the Tories had won in 1997 they would have inflated the housing bubble and screwed over the pension companies just like Labour did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Did they mention ponies? I want a pony. Do you use the 100 favourite pony recipes book, or do you cook your own way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I can't see Labour winning. I've always thought the Tories would get a majority in 2015. A former coalition defence minister says Labour already has it in the bag. Labour is performing well enough that it has already won the general election, a Liberal Democrat MP has said.Former defence minister Nick Harvey told the Huffington Post the polls all pointed to a Labour victory in 2015, even if Tories refused to accept it. "Stand fast a game-changing event, which is always possible in the febrile political era in which we live, Labour is on course to win the next election," he said. "This election is Labour's to lose. The North Devon MP said the Tories would struggling to improve on the 36% of the vote they won in 2010 and secure a majority. "Most people say it would be an absolutely crowning achievement," he said. "It's very difficult to see why anyone would vote Tory next time who didn't last time. There's not much history of incumbents gaining votes between elections. "It would be a superlative accomplishment if the Tories were to achieve 36%." Meanwhile Harvey predicted Ed Miliband would win 34% at the lowest range of expectation, after having taken five per cent of the Lib Dem vote. But that assumed the party would not win any marginal seats off the Conservatives. "If 36% is the most the Tories could achieve and 34% is the least Labour is going to achieve, plot that on a seat predictor, Labour has already won," he said. "Labour has probably got a 15-seat majority. The collapse of the Lib Dem vote with most going to the Labour party means that the Tories have probably lost two dozen seats before they even get out of bed." "The smarter Tories will realise the collapse of our popular vote will have a far more devastating impact on them than it will on us. We will be able to concentrate on the seats that matter to us." Asked why the Tories still appeared so confident about their election prospects, Harvey replied: "People say to me 'oh people aren’t convinced by Mr Miliband, he's got a funny voice and funny hair'. "Well all the public knew about Thatcher in 1979 was she had a funny voice and funny hair. She was way behind Callaghan in personal ratings. But that didn't stop her winning. I think people are writing the man off too lightly." http://politics.co.uk/news/2013/11/22/lib-dem-mp-labour-has-already-won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I'm definitely right leaning in my politics, but to be honest Cameron does not come across well. He has an arrogant streak and his eyes pop out with indignation at mere mortals like some Bulligdon boy bully. If you have a list of most annoying politicians then Cameron is up there with Miliband and Balls. So yep Labour have also shot themselves in the foot with the whining overgrown schoolboy gonk who looks a bit awkward.Unbelievable now that I see Theresa May as the jewel in the crown, I thought Cameron was the best candidate in 2005. She has a strange humility about her, she looks nervous all the time and very ordinary, but suddenly ordinary looks bloody fantastic compared to the Bullingdon bully and Milliband the school swot that gets picked last on your football team in the playground. Even as she makes a complete f**k up of Home Office you just can't get angry with the woman, bolstered by her unfortunate weight loss caused by diabetes. Suddenly we have Joan of Arc, St Teresa of Avila and the thinking man's crumpet all in one.............http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100185189/the-irresistible-rise-of-theresa-may/Seems I was a closet May fan after all' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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