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the_dork

Who To Vote For?

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I mainly lurk but might get more involved in the HPC chats now things are getting interesting again, with carnage looking inevitable.

I support a land value tax and basic income largely replacing council tax, much of income tax and child benefit/housing benefit. I would increase the threshold for inheritance tax toward around 800k-1m but increase the & amount and clamp down on trusts/avoidance. I support green economics so placing a GDP value on nature and accurately pricing externalities as well as public intervention to massively and quickly cut carbon. I support market mechanisms, private property, right to start businesses etc but would be open to more regulations from a democratic govt such as max hours working week, move away from Sunday trading a shift towards co-op ownership models where feasible. I am not anti-religion per se but support a ‘militantly secular’ government, abolition of the house of lords, disestablishment of church. I would vote against the constitutional monarchy but in absence of support for this wouldn’t push to change for the sake of it. I support national co-operation, trade, foreign aid but not pooling of sovereignty without consent (so current model of the EU).

This places me I believe as some form of social democrat on economic and constitutional issues.

I am opposed to mass migration, multi-culturalism (as opposed to minority rights to keep customs etc which I defend where no clash with UK law so would ban burqas but not headscarves), radical feminism (support equity feminism), egalitarian education dogma, unconditionally ‘free ‘ NHS treatment. I believe the primary purpose of criminal justice is deterrence, second is public safety and lastly, only to limited extent believe in ‘rehabilitation’. I don’t hate rich people or believe in higher taxes for the sake of it on ‘the rich’ where they have earnt their wealth from innate talent (Sportsmen etc), luck or poor taste of the public (Jade Goody).

This presumably makes me some form of conservative (by today’s admittedly liberal standards rather than 19th century.

Why am I so poorly represented by our current system and who should I vote for?

I have voted variously for all 3 main parties in my naive youth, I'll probably vote UKIP to shake up the agenda and deal with the issues but can't say I identify much with them on economic type issues where they are pretty nakedly Thatcherite. . I suspect many here feel similar?

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Vote for none of the above. You can't afford a house, the cost of living is out of control, the banking system is corrupt etc what does voting achieve.

I'd dissolve government and let people/communities run their own lives.

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I mainly lurk but might get more involved in the HPC chats now things are getting interesting again, with carnage looking inevitable.

I support a land value tax and basic income largely replacing council tax, much of income tax and child benefit/housing benefit. I would increase the threshold for inheritance tax toward around 800k-1m but increase the & amount and clamp down on trusts/avoidance. I support green economics so placing a GDP value on nature and accurately pricing externalities as well as public intervention to massively and quickly cut carbon. I support market mechanisms, private property, right to start businesses etc but would be open to more regulations from a democratic govt such as max hours working week, move away from Sunday trading a shift towards co-op ownership models where feasible. I am not anti-religion per se but support a 'militantly secular' government, abolition of the house of lords, disestablishment of church. I would vote against the constitutional monarchy but in absence of support for this wouldn't push to change for the sake of it. I support national co-operation, trade, foreign aid but not pooling of sovereignty without consent (so current model of the EU).

This places me I believe as some form of social democrat on economic and constitutional issues.

I am opposed to mass migration, multi-culturalism (as opposed to minority rights to keep customs etc which I defend where no clash with UK law so would ban burqas but not headscarves), radical feminism (support equity feminism), egalitarian education dogma, unconditionally 'free ' NHS treatment. I believe the primary purpose of criminal justice is deterrence, second is public safety and lastly, only to limited extent believe in 'rehabilitation'. I don't hate rich people or believe in higher taxes for the sake of it on 'the rich' where they have earnt their wealth from innate talent (Sportsmen etc), luck or poor taste of the public (Jade Goody).

This presumably makes me some form of conservative (by today's admittedly liberal standards rather than 19th century.

Why am I so poorly represented by our current system and who should I vote for?

I have voted variously for all 3 main parties in my naive youth, I'll probably vote UKIP to shake up the agenda and deal with the issues but can't say I identify much with them on economic type issues where they are pretty nakedly Thatcherite. . I suspect many here feel similar?

Vote UKIP. At least then with your rather ill-thought-out views you'll be taking a vote away from the Tories.

'innate talent'...... ffs

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I've never voted Green - but they have adopted a Land Value Tax and full reserve banking as part of their manifesto. So I'm tempted.

I ike the way their policies are debated to death and laid down with their guiding principles - in far more detail than 6 tacky soundbite promises on a leaflet.

http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ld

They may not get in but at least your conscience is clear and you used your vote.

Labour hate the Greens. Shows you they must be doing something right.

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Greens seem to have some good people these days and have moved away from the stereotypical beaded geography teachers (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

However, far too radical on social issues for me and they do still have some lunatic policies (homeopathy) and a bit of a ‘bash the rich’ agenda

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Voting UKIP seems like leaping into the hands of anyone just because they're not what you're currently annoyed with, without consideration that they may be no better or worse. The Greens do sound the closest to what you're saying (based on not knowing all that much about them) - as you say there are some things that you don't agree with them quite strongly on but even with a decent set of differing choices to choose from (as if that ideal would ever happen) then that'll always be the case.

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Greens seem to have some good people these days and have moved away from the stereotypical beaded geography teachers (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

However, far too radical on social issues for me and they do still have some lunatic policies (homeopathy) and a bit of a ‘bash the rich’ agenda

dunno, juries out on that one really.

I think the homeopathy thing is ok really, but should be treated as Complementary medicine..ie an alternative if people choose it.

...some of the remedies do work better than over the counter pills and potions...but it shouldn't be an either/or option.

I have a bit more of an axe to grind with their naive defence policies.....they aren't even grown up enough to call it toddler-mentality, because toddlers have learnt to be rather selfish and try to steal each others toys( which is about the level of most politicians)

...so they're idealists, but they ain't streetwise.

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I mainly lurk but might get more involved in the HPC chats now things are getting interesting again, with carnage looking inevitable.

I support a land value tax and basic income largely replacing council tax, much of income tax and child benefit/housing benefit. I would increase the threshold for inheritance tax toward around 800k-1m but increase the & amount and clamp down on trusts/avoidance. I support green economics so placing a GDP value on nature and accurately pricing externalities as well as public intervention to massively and quickly cut carbon. I support market mechanisms, private property, right to start businesses etc but would be open to more regulations from a democratic govt such as max hours working week, move away from Sunday trading a shift towards co-op ownership models where feasible. I am not anti-religion per se but support a ‘militantly secular’ government, abolition of the house of lords, disestablishment of church. I would vote against the constitutional monarchy but in absence of support for this wouldn’t push to change for the sake of it. I support national co-operation, trade, foreign aid but not pooling of sovereignty without consent (so current model of the EU).

This places me I believe as some form of social democrat on economic and constitutional issues.

I am opposed to mass migration, multi-culturalism (as opposed to minority rights to keep customs etc which I defend where no clash with UK law so would ban burqas but not headscarves), radical feminism (support equity feminism), egalitarian education dogma, unconditionally ‘free ‘ NHS treatment. I believe the primary purpose of criminal justice is deterrence, second is public safety and lastly, only to limited extent believe in ‘rehabilitation’. I don’t hate rich people or believe in higher taxes for the sake of it on ‘the rich’ where they have earnt their wealth from innate talent (Sportsmen etc), luck or poor taste of the public (Jade Goody).

This presumably makes me some form of conservative (by today’s admittedly liberal standards rather than 19th century.

Why am I so poorly represented by our current system and who should I vote for?

I have voted variously for all 3 main parties in my naive youth, I'll probably vote UKIP to shake up the agenda and deal with the issues but can't say I identify much with them on economic type issues where they are pretty nakedly Thatcherite. . I suspect many here feel similar?

vote with your money. Do a denninger and go on strike. The state is nothing but the product of your labour, or the segment of it they steal. Quit work, or only work to the personal allowance, claim as much benefit as you can and spend your spare time aquiring skills. The sooner we all do this and the whole scam collapses the better.

Whatever salvation is, it wont present itself at the ballot box.

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Voting UKIP seems like leaping into the hands of anyone just because they're not what you're currently annoyed with, without consideration that they may be no better or worse. The Greens do sound the closest to what you're saying (based on not knowing all that much about them) - as you say there are some things that you don't agree with them quite strongly on but even with a decent set of differing choices to choose from (as if that ideal would ever happen) then that'll always be the case.

Yes, that pretty accurately describes how I'll be voting in forthcoming local, general and European elections; millions of others too I expect.

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Yes, that pretty accurately describes how I'll be voting in forthcoming local, general and European elections; millions of others too I expect.

Yes, people have always fallen for the charms of the snake-oil salesman.

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I mainly lurk but might get more involved in the HPC chats now things are getting interesting again, with carnage looking inevitable.

I support a land value tax and basic income largely replacing council tax, much of income tax and child benefit/housing benefit. I would increase the threshold for inheritance tax toward around 800k-1m but increase the & amount and clamp down on trusts/avoidance. I support green economics so placing a GDP value on nature and accurately pricing externalities as well as public intervention to massively and quickly cut carbon. I support market mechanisms, private property, right to start businesses etc but would be open to more regulations from a democratic govt such as max hours working week, move away from Sunday trading a shift towards co-op ownership models where feasible. I am not anti-religion per se but support a 'militantly secular' government, abolition of the house of lords, disestablishment of church. I would vote against the constitutional monarchy but in absence of support for this wouldn't push to change for the sake of it. I support national co-operation, trade, foreign aid but not pooling of sovereignty without consent (so current model of the EU).

This places me I believe as some form of social democrat on economic and constitutional issues.

I am opposed to mass migration, multi-culturalism (as opposed to minority rights to keep customs etc which I defend where no clash with UK law so would ban burqas but not headscarves), radical feminism (support equity feminism), egalitarian education dogma, unconditionally 'free ' NHS treatment. I believe the primary purpose of criminal justice is deterrence, second is public safety and lastly, only to limited extent believe in 'rehabilitation'. I don't hate rich people or believe in higher taxes for the sake of it on 'the rich' where they have earnt their wealth from innate talent (Sportsmen etc), luck or poor taste of the public (Jade Goody).

This presumably makes me some form of conservative (by today's admittedly liberal standards rather than 19th century.

Why am I so poorly represented by our current system and who should I vote for?

I have voted variously for all 3 main parties in my naive youth, I'll probably vote UKIP to shake up the agenda and deal with the issues but can't say I identify much with them on economic type issues where they are pretty nakedly Thatcherite. . I suspect many here feel similar?

Your political views aren't all that far from mine.

There's an argument that says that if you don't vote then you deny yourself a say in the way in which the country is governed; in essence you undermine democracy.

There's also the argument, recently espoused by Russell Brand of all people, that if you do vote then you effectively support the "status quo" and provide legitimacy for it.

Taking a "free trade" principle, if nobody represents your views, then it is my belief that you should not vote for anyone. I'll be spoiling my ballet paper as a weak but legitimate form of protest at the next General Election.

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Douglas Adams on democracy (from 'So Long and Thanks for All the Fish):

"I come in peace," [the robot] said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."

Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this.

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, , "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

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No matter who you vote for they'll become infected by power and suddenly change. It's as if they are suddenly replaced by a lizard in a suit the moment they walk through number 10.

Definitely something in that - though in Blair and Camerons case they merely revealed what they really were behind the mask, it wasn't a change.

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Your political views aren't all that far from mine.

There's an argument that says that if you don't vote then you deny yourself a say in the way in which the country is governed; in essence you undermine democracy.

There's also the argument, recently espoused by Russell Brand of all people, that if you do vote then you effectively support the "status quo" and provide legitimacy for it.

Taking a "free trade" principle, if nobody represents your views, then it is my belief that you should not vote for anyone. I'll be spoiling my ballet paper as a weak but legitimate form of protest at the next General Election.

I agree with Russel Brand? Uh-oh.

The "if you don't vote..." argument has always felt to me like people defending the status quo, or at least finding an irrelevent and vacuous argument to try to dismiss those who don't by lumping those who genuinely can't bring themselves to express support for one of the candidates with those who simply can't be bothered.

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I agree with Russel Brand? Uh-oh.

The "if you don't vote..." argument has always felt to me like people defending the status quo, or at least finding an irrelevent and vacuous argument to try to dismiss those who don't by lumping those who genuinely can't bring themselves to express support for one of the candidates with those who simply can't be bothered.

I suppose grownups have to accept that you’ll never get the exact policies you want. Over recent years, probably since 2005 (when I voted Lib Dem) my views have shifted much more strongly against the EU, mass migration and our criminal justice system. Whether I’d vote on these though, if Lab or LD were promising a land value tax, mansion tax, serious banking reform etc is unlikely.

Scale that up to the millions of people who vote and you can see why we end up with so much crap.

It’s a separate discussion, but I do think you should generally always vote, even a spoiled ballot says something. The BNP, Communists, Greens etc all cater for many of the niche views that people complain about not being represented. If any of these started getting 5-6% of the votes the issues, if not the parties, would become part of the mainstream.

The result on the PR voting system was very disappointing so we’ll be stuck with the same system for at least another decade I’d guess.

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vote with your money. Do a denninger and go on strike. The state is nothing but the product of your labour, or the segment of it they steal. Quit work, or only work to the personal allowance, claim as much benefit as you can and spend your spare time aquiring skills. The sooner we all do this and the whole scam collapses the better.

Whatever salvation is, it wont present itself at the ballot box.

That's been espoused before many times but IMO all that you are hurting is yourself. It's not about acquiring skills, satisfaction comes from exercising the skills that you have whilst improving them.

My current job is stretching me and I am growing as a result. Yes it pays but it's about the satisfaction and not the money. If I was spending my days dozing and reading philosophy books I would not be growing as much as I do from working, though it would be much easier.

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