Energy And Water Bills To Increase

[cashinmattress]

link

Gas, electricity and water bills will continue to rise by more than inflation for another 17 years, public spending watchdogs have warned.

The National Audit Office (NAO) blamed the price rises on the Government’s decision to load two-thirds of the £310bn cost of infrastructure projects needed to maintain energy and water supplies on to customers’ bills rather than fund them through taxation.

It predicted that the average household energy bill will rise by 66 per cent – from £1,290 this year to £2,135 by 2030. Water bills will vary around the country but could jump by 80 per cent – from £388 this year to £698 in 2030.

The NAO said the investment projects are needed but criticised the Government for not coming clean about the impact on bills. It expressed concern that the poorest families would not be able to cope with the rising cost of energy and water. Some 8 per cent of average household spending now goes on energy and water, but for those in the bottom 10 per cent of the income scale, the proportion is 15 per cent, said the NAO.

Its strong criticism is embarrassing for ministers, who are embroiled in a war of words with the “big six” energy companies about their price rises. The report could undermine claims that the firms are profiteering and bolster the companies’ argument that the increases stem largely from government policy.

Yesterday, the French firm EDF announced that its prices will rise by 3.9 per cent. This is significantly less than the rises announced by rivals, but it warned that more increases could come if the Government does not back down on so-called green levies.

The NAO said: “Government has made no assessment of the overall impact of infrastructure on future bills or whether those bills will be affordable.” It added: “The Government and regulators do not know how much in total the new infrastructure might cost consumers. Nor do they know whether consumers, particularly those on low incomes, will be able to afford the additional costs.”

Margaret Hodge, who chairs the Public Accounts Committee, said: “I have serious concerns the Government is taking decisions on infrastructure, banking on hard-pressed consumers to foot the bill, without knowing whether households will be able to afford to pay.”

Ed Davey, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary, told energy firms at their own conference yesterday that customers “look at the big suppliers and see the greed that consumed the banks”.

Energy companies pointed to research suggesting that 95 per cent of the price rises to 2020 would be due to government-imposed levies and network costs. But Angela Knight, chief executive of Energy UK, admitted: “We have got a problem – an image problem, a reputational problem, a trust problem. Trust is hard to gain and it’s easy to lose.”

A Government spokesman said: “Decades of underinvestment have left the UK struggling with insufficient energy infrastructure, but we are committed to fixing the failures of previous governments, and to making the difficult decisions that will allow us to have the infrastructure we need.”

Well, we'd have gone through 4 governments in that time. What is the chance of seeing anything good come of it.

At least everybody will be property millionaires in that time...

[The Knimbies who say No]

link

Well, we'd have gone through 4 governments in that time. What is the chance of seeing anything good come of it.

At least everybody will be property millionaires in that time...

Stats like this are pure hilarity, £3k per annum for average energy plus water by 2030. I seriously doubt this will happen without some sort of event, eg a bull run in wage inflation or such like.

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

30 deg C washing cycles, LED lighting, low consumption electronics, more microgeneration, better insulation. Demand for power should be on a downward track. Hell, the price should be falling!

Gas is the one which is difficult to avoid, especially if renting. On demand hot water is pretty inefficient imo, a solar heater wired in a la Kurt Barlow would be the best idea imo.

[MrPin]

At least the competition between the suppliers, will keep our bills down?

It didn't work, did it?

[cashinmattress]

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

Yes, smart meters and TEQ's will encourage you to use less.

Those who like a warm house full of glowing electronics may be forced into coping with a minimal few kW's of energy once they go over their government conceived limits... or pay through the nose.

Edited November 13, 2013 by cashinmattress

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Stats like this are pure hilarity, £3k per annum for average energy plus water by 2030. I seriously doubt this will happen without some sort of event, eg a bull run in wage inflation or such like.

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

30 deg C washing cycles, LED lighting, low consumption electronics, more microgeneration, better insulation. Demand for power should be on a downward track. Hell, the price should be falling!

Gas is the one which is difficult to avoid, especially if renting. On demand hot water is pretty inefficient imo, a solar heater wired in a la Kurt Barlow would be the best idea imo.

A burgeoning private rental sector where the tenants are trapped and the landlords have no incentive to make anything better/more efficient.

Cheers you nefarious *******

[tomandlu]

A burgeoning private rental sector where the tenants are trapped and the landlords have no incentive to make anything better/more efficient.

Cheers you nefarious *******

Indeed. We don't even have individual thermostats on our radiators, and, irrespective of room size, all rooms have one, same-size-fits-all radiator.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Indeed. We don't even have individual thermostats on our radiators, and, irrespective of room size, all rooms have one, same-size-fits-all radiator.

I am bald and grey and the central heating boiler is older than I am.

[The Knimbies who say No]

A burgeoning private rental sector where the tenants are trapped and the landlords have no incentive to make anything better/more efficient.

Cheers you nefarious *******

Indeed, the feed in tariff screw renters royally.

The one advantage of taking a place from an accidental LL is that some of this stuff might be better than minimal quality.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Yes, smart meters and TEQ's will encourage you to use less.

Those who like a warm house full of glowing electronics may be forced into coping with a minimal few kW's of energy once they go over their government conceived limits... or pay through the nose.

Fair point, coerced would be more accurate.

TEQ, I got as far as Yeo's smug face on the website.

Edited November 13, 2013 by The B.L.T.

[R K]

Why else would the Tories privatise the utility sector

[Ash4781]

Water bills of £698 a year by 2030. Ouch. Is that including waste water? Actually my bill is already about £500 a year....

edit: what of council tax?

Edited November 13, 2013 by Ash4781

[zugzwang]

Third world economy, Third World future.

Get used to it.

[Kurt Barlow]

Stats like this are pure hilarity, £3k per annum for average energy plus water by 2030. I seriously doubt this will happen without some sort of event, eg a bull run in wage inflation or such like.

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

30 deg C washing cycles, LED lighting, low consumption electronics, more microgeneration, better insulation. Demand for power should be on a downward track. Hell, the price should be falling!

Gas is the one which is difficult to avoid, especially if renting. On demand hot water is pretty inefficient imo, a solar heater wired in a la Kurt Barlow would be the best idea imo.

Well thank you

My tenants in the UK are the luckiest in the Country - modern condensing boiler, solar water heating, wood fired stove and super duper insulation!

Mind you I have split loyalties as my income from next month will be entirely reliant upon LNG demand

[Quicken]

Stats like this are pure hilarity, £3k per annum for average energy plus water by 2030. I seriously doubt this will happen without some sort of event, eg a bull run in wage inflation or such like.

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

30 deg C washing cycles, LED lighting, low consumption electronics, more microgeneration, better insulation. Demand for power should be on a downward track. Hell, the price should be falling!

Gas is the one which is difficult to avoid, especially if renting. On demand hot water is pretty inefficient imo, a solar heater wired in a la Kurt Barlow would be the best idea imo.

Standing charges, my friend. Standing charges.

From the inflationary pressure website:

Water is competing hard with house prices in the crazy stakes:

[bearwithasorehead]

Water bills of £698 a year by 2030. Ouch. Is that including waste water? Actually my bill is already about £500 a year....

edit: what of council tax?

exactly, in some parts of the country people are paying nearly that for water now - (SW).

We could quickly get to a point where energy/utilities is double council tax, especially as Pickles seems hell bent on destroying the local state.

[Kurt Barlow]

Standing charges, my friend. Standing charges.

From the inflationary pressure website:

Water is competing hard with house prices in the crazy stakes:

Would be good to see the government legislate to scrap standing charges

[fluffy666]

Standing charges, my friend. Standing charges.

From the inflationary pressure website:

..

Bear in mind that in the late 1990s to early 2000s we had a one-time blowout of cheap North Sea gas.

Apart from that.. shall we play 'Spot the Private Sector Efficiency'?

[onlyme2]

Stats like this are pure hilarity, £3k per annum for average energy plus water by 2030. I seriously doubt this will happen without some sort of event, eg a bull run in wage inflation or such like.

We are all being encouraged to use less, and I guess a lot of people are doing just that.

30 deg C washing cycles, LED lighting, low consumption electronics, more microgeneration, better insulation. Demand for power should be on a downward track. Hell, the price should be falling!

Gas is the one which is difficult to avoid, especially if renting. On demand hot water is pretty inefficient imo, a solar heater wired in a la Kurt Barlow would be the best idea imo.

Downward overall demand is a red herring, world market. We are getting relatively poorer, our currency is suffering debasement so are our wages. We import most of our energy and the rising populations are in an ever better position to bid for those resources, they are experiencing real growth in incomes and capabilties to help that.

There are a lot of diminishing returns on the energy saving front. When do you use most lighting - winter months, what happens to the energy eventually - gets turned to heat - you could almost say you are getting double use for less efficient lights (as long as they throw forward the power into the room and not leach it into the loft for example). So you need additional heat input to compensate, just so happens gas is cheaper than electricity so the sum works, just not as good as the nominal figs might suggest. Basically pretty much everything you turn off then becomes an additional heating demand to some degreee or other.

Solar thermal - should be a slam dunk based on the component pricing. But then £2K + of kit becomes a £5k + install cost. The advent of the combi boiler has done away with the tank and in most instances you now need the tank back - has to be bigger too, a lot of places simply will not have the free space.

[Errol]

Yes, smart meters and TEQ's will encourage you to use less.

Remember -

Smart meters are NOT compulsory. There is NO legal force to compel either installation or use. Power companies may tell you otherwise but you have an absolute RIGHT to refuse installation of a smart meter.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Well thank you

My tenants in the UK are the luckiest in the Country - modern condensing boiler, solar water heating, wood fired stove and super duper insulation!

Mind you I have split loyalties as my income from next month will be entirely reliant upon LNG demand

No probs, I'll be resurrecting your installation thread if/when I ever buy a place.

Good points by others, standing charges are the work around for declining useage. I deliberately chose a gas/eleccy supplier who does not use such instruments (Ebico) but on the water front I'm stuffed. Bill arrived yesterday as it happens, 1/3 of bill is standing charges and overall the bill is close to £30/month which is a lot for 2 people, new baby means that'll doubtless rise too.

The 'world market' argument goes so far, but there will come a point where the calls and political motivation for renationalisation are impossible to resist imo. The predicted two decades of above-inflation rises ought to do it imo.

Installation costs for microgen are clearly set to a degree by feed in tariff income. The sooner they are scrapped the sooner we might get sensible install pricing. It's just another beano for asset owners.

[crash2006]

Why does the government need to even fund utility companies. Was it not the case for privatisation supposed to free government corporate welfare and allow the private sector to pay for itself.

I would like to see stats on the amount of corporate welfare and private sector dependence on government money or contracts.

I personally think the cost cuttings and the decrease in government social programmes funding has a equal or greater increase in privative sector spending by the government. Private sector reliance on state money is increasing to a point whereby if there were no tax payers money part of that sector would collapse.

[Kurt Barlow]

Downward overall demand is a red herring, world market. We are getting relatively poorer, our currency is suffering debasement so are our wages. We import most of our energy and the rising populations are in an ever better position to bid for those resources, they are experiencing real growth in incomes and capabilties to help that.

There are a lot of diminishing returns on the energy saving front. When do you use most lighting - winter months, what happens to the energy eventually - gets turned to heat - you could almost say you are getting double use for less efficient lights (as long as they throw forward the power into the room and not leach it into the loft for example). So you need additional heat input to compensate, just so happens gas is cheaper than electricity so the sum works, just not as good as the nominal figs might suggest. Basically pretty much everything you turn off then becomes an additional heating demand to some degreee or other.

Solar thermal - should be a slam dunk based on the component pricing. But then £2K + of kit becomes a £5k + install cost. The advent of the combi boiler has done away with the tank and in most instances you now need the tank back - has to be bigger too, a lot of places simply will not have the free space.

Here in Oz its increasingly looking more effective to put extra PV on the roof and use the power at peak output to run a ASHP water heater.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RHEEM-ELECTRIC-AIR-SOURCED-325LITRE-HOT-WATER-UNIT-HEATER-/200986560007?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ecbbb8607

[onlyme2]

No probs, I'll be resurrecting your installation thread if/when I ever buy a place.

Good points by others, standing charges are the work around for declining useage. I deliberately chose a gas/eleccy supplier who does not use such instruments (Ebico) but on the water front I'm stuffed. Bill arrived yesterday as it happens, 1/3 of bill is standing charges and overall the bill is close to £30/month which is a lot for 2 people, new baby means that'll doubtless rise too.

The 'world market' argument goes so far, but there will come a point where the calls and political motivation for renationalisation are impossible to resist imo. The predicted two decades of above-inflation rises ought to do it imo.

Installation costs for microgen are clearly set to a degree by feed in tariff income. The sooner they are scrapped the sooner we might get sensible install pricing. It's just another beano for asset owners.

Yes, worse thing we could have is these sorts of subsidies - they have bred a quagmire of greedy, inefficient installers who just cherrypick and strip the benefits from the additional taxes and charges lumped on others, plus pays for another gang of hangers on, authorizing bodies.

As for the world market, this is just china in comparison but believe it would be representative.

[Sour Mash]

Hey, if you want ever-increasing house and equity prices and are prepared to follow lunatic monetary policies to achieve that goal then prepare for ever increasing costs of the essentials too.

It's not bloody rocket science yet strangely no-one in the mainstream media appears to have made the connection and informed the public of that unpleasant truth. Strange, that.

[fluffy666]

Remember -

Smart meters are NOT compulsory. There is NO legal force to compel either installation or use. Power companies may tell you otherwise but you have an absolute RIGHT to refuse installation of a smart meter.

What's wrong with Smart Meters? (or 'Economy 7 version 2)?

Thing is, with our solar panels we have all the information, so we end up scheduling stuff (Washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, dehumidifier) to run in the day off the panels. Saves money. Really not sure what the problem is.